We are frequently told that healthcare and well-being is about patient autonomy and self-determination. Much of the recent furore concerning our UK hospital crisis is about the way parents were/are treated in a failure to communicate the rate of infant deaths by the management system in certain UK hospitals. Though different from contagious pandemic threat from the spread of harmful viruses, the same riding roughshod over individual rights takes place with the isolation strategy being brought in, including self-quarantining, by government law, as with infant deaths.
My question is: can we be certain that our right under law to be informed is not lost by the veil of secrecy that seems to accompany such draconian acts as the compulsory isolation of individuals in certain cases,as with the cover-up of the infant deaths in some hospitals?
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Cateran
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26 Replies
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1. What about the veil of secrecy which it us now emerging has been exercised by the Chinese govt for at least 3 months regarding the true true spread and seriousness of this virus
2. What about the human rights of the rest of us (particularly those on this forum) to be protected from the virus.
3. How do you think that plague was finally eliminated from Europe.
4. Why the heck are flights still coming in from China and why are our tourist areas full of Chinese.
I feel a lot more comfortable knowing our government is doing its utmost to protect the population of this country from the spread of this virus and its possible effects which certainly pose a risk to members of this forum and the elderly and vulnerable across the UK.
I for one would not object to being placed in quarantine for the sake of protecting others and would consider it a selfish act if I were not to consent. I don't see it as a breech of anyone's human rights to be confined when considering the safety of others. After putting this question out there perhaps you would care to share your own view on these matters ?
Hello Nickcv and thank you for your response. You ask about my own views on this matter. To me it is complicated. I thought about the veil of secrecy and the public's right to be informed, consulted . I mentioned the loss of autonomy that state secrets can involve. The Chinese state is monolithic yet paradoxically free to the open market pressures from the West. A balancing act fraught with serious consequences for freedoms of the Chinese individuals who are both protected in their access to economic rights but not necessarily for freedom of information. In the UK the public had the right to know about the infant deaths but not the information which was necessary under our own FoI Act. Which compromised our autonomy and the parents' freedom of action to complain about those deaths.
The Chinese Secret State leads in some cases to persecution of minorities and a measure of dictatorship, but also, as Littlepom points out to the substantial freedom of its wealthier
citizens to visit our tourist sites en masse and not be quarantined. The nature of secrecy is unhealthy if it leads to human rights abuses but necessary when guarding public health. But what IS public health if not a sort of safeguarding from exposure to others' ill-health?
I agree that the UK is correct to isolate its returning tourists and citizens from China as a safeguard and public danger, what one might call a "necessary" act. But is this quarantining a sufficient act? How do we know this, right now and in the near future, without freedom of information about its efficacy? Is quarantine the best way? I frankly do not know. So that is why I raised this problem in the first instance. Do we gain more than we might lose by this action? Or does quarantining inhibit government by consent?
Incidentally, littlepom is also correct about me equating fish with bicycles, a piece of sleight of hand on my part maybe.
I do think that you are equating fish with bicycles. Not at all the same situation. The infant death scandal is a woeful and wickedly mis managed situation at a local level. The need for and ability of government to protect its citizens from a virus by taking measures to prevent its spread is totally different.
My point without desiring to debase anyone is simply this: China is a very reticent society. What is being disclosed via news media is diminutive. This virus will proliferate. What has been disclosed has been after the fact to misguide and victimize. We will continue to secure desultory statistics. I find this not amusing. It wasn’t so long ago I read statements on this forum alleging one to be a conspiracy theorist regarding this new coronavirus. Better it is to wait and see before negating.
I dont believe there should be any secrecy regarding the coronavirus from any country and think that ALL people should be treated with respect but think that the health of the whole population should be the utmost goal, if that requires self isolation or imposed isolation then so be it. I dont think anybody in their right mind would disagree x
You know folks , this is slowly turning into another version of the so called " Gay Plague " years ago, , against the Chinese folk, this time. Anyone who is Chinese is a suspect of what is now being referred to as the " Chinese Plague" - " China Town " London , is deserted with many shops fearing going Bankrupt - . its getting to ridiculous proportions , and reports have been coming in of quite innocent Chinese folk being attacked as supposed " CARRIERS OF THIS VIRUS …. no one ever asked for it , and it was historically , the supreme irony , that as with the " Gay Plague " millions of Heteralsexuals fineshed up with it = sadly such is human nature I suppose ….
No. With all respect, I have not heard a word about a "Chinese Plaque," and no intelligent person would think of finger-pointing regarding this tragic situation. I do wish the Chinese government would accept help in solving the problem of creating a cure for this virus. J
I think you will find that the Chinese government are accepting and receiving as much help as is required,unfortunately the nature of their political set up probably prohibits them from from admitting this to their own population,also i imagine that they probably have more home grown expertise in virology than anything we could probably offer them and that secretly that expertise is already being shared amongst nations at this very moment which can only be a good thing for the future.
Chinese ethnicity children in our local schools, who have had no contact whatsoever with people who may be carrying Coronavirus, have been being bullied and shunned this week. Tragic.
Yes Ergendl, the collateral and unintended consequences of moral panic, which you will know as the stampeding of normal human relationships in times of crisis. So, what I am reflecting on is precisely this MORAL PANIC as a concept, disturbing the peace and accepted social norms wherein even innocent children are caught up in the consequences of a pandemic (if indeed the corona virus event turns out to be such) engendering widespread and spreading, fear. The Chinese state is historically holding together billions of people, by whatever means necessary, to keep China from imploding and destabilised by its dangerous population growth. Perhaps this one factor alone ought to govern our judgement about MORAL PANIC.
Sorry , Jmsutt73, - have you been down to the "China town " recently in London ? I have , and have heard passing members of OUR public referring to this situation as the " Chinese Plague " , and what of those pictures on the BBC TV news of their police in China dragging people out of their homes as " Suspected Carriers" …..don't forget - China is a communist State … where anything goes when it comes to running it , like Hitler's " Fatherland " ….- at any price …. and by any method , and BBC cameras ARE NOT WELCOME - surprise surprise ! ...…., and the way our lot is handling the British patients on that boat is appalling ……….as usual - " CARRY ON BRITAIN " !!
Thanks Vittorio, This is not news that I want to hear, since my grandchildren are equally Asian and Caucasian. I am not in England. I am in the U.S.. J
I am a free spirit, I believe in people being free, and human rights. But, but, when something this dangerous that has the potential to kill many people, regardless of the handwashing, masks, antibacterial, Lysol spraying....All flights in and out stop, stat. Not to do so is putting people at risk. Keep it contained, work to find its cure, its vaccine...whatever. It's not like half the business in the world isnt done by Skype anyway. Its liken if you have step throat, you dont invite your friends to come drink from your glass. We all share this big blue ball...I think common courtesy prevails....don't spread diseases. Quarantines, have a very good record of saving lives. Even, the quarantined persons, so they dont get other germs to make it harder to get better. Medical Assisting, paid off, huh? (Mine)
I probably was not understood at all, oh, well, I have earned the right to wear my dark glasses at night.
Going off on a tangent, I was thinking about the people who not only have caught this virus but have had their name and photo in the media. Is that through their choice or is it a freedom of information thing? If I get this dreaded virus when I travel in two weeks time it would be a double whammy if I also had my name and photo publicised. ☹️
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