Last week Public Health England (PHE) launched a report encouraging Britain’s eight million smokers to switch to e-cigarettes stating that they are 20 times less harmful than traditional cigarettes. They called for e-cigarettes to be prescribed on the NHS claiming that vaping was 95 per cent safer than smoking tobacco.
But now it has emerged that their report relied on a 2014 study that was conducted by scientists in the pay of e-cigarette companies.
Yes can we please. Let’s just agree to disagree. Each to their own. Xxx
There is no disagreement possible now. A lot of us were conned, yet again. Money rules everything we do, the capitalistic society at work. I never believe the government, in it's many guises, they have been caught lying too many times, mainly at the cost of human suffering. It is human nature to forget the bad things. But some of us never forget, nor forgive
I am really sorry for all those people who were suckered into believing that all was okay and it was safe to be vaping, I really feel sorry for the vapers, that you are going suffer the very real anguish of having to quit the nicotine habit.
It really is possible to quit, In my heyday of smoking, on board the tankers, I smoked 100 Marlborough a day. I used to smoke an ounce (28grams) of tobacco a day for 50 years, that is very heavy smoking. I quit 4 years ago and have not touched tobacco since.
If you knew more about smoking you would that difficulty in giving up is largely due to the number of nicotine receptors produced by your brain. Some people have more than others which explains why some find it easier than others to give up. It's not all down to willpower which you seem to assume those that don't give up lack. This is a common myth.
I merely state that on the principle of the dangerous chemicals that smoking has which vaping doesn't that it is safer to vape. That's it. No one is saying vape is 100 pc safe coz we don't know this yet. I would encourage anyone who wants to stop smoking to vape instead, and will argue with anyone who insists that normal vaping is just as dangerous.
If studies stop being put up about the vast minority who choose to put illegal or dangerous substances in their vapes, thus assuming all vapourers do this, then I will leave the subject alone.
Hi I am sorry but I cannot agree as I am one who has tried vaping again and it doesn’t suit me. It makes me tight chested, cough and breathing difficulties. But as said before, each to their own. We are all different. 😊Have a good day everyone. Xxx
Fair enough but I am discussing this on an objective level, not a subjective one.
I would like to read the medical evidence on your statement that the amount of nicotine receptors varies between people. I do not believe it is a myth at all.
My addiction was huge which is shown by the amount that I used to have to smoke to gain any satisfaction, I was chain smoking. Depending on how you look on it, I was fortunate in that I was actually forced to quit by being incapable of smoking because of a very severe 3 month chest infection, whereby my addiction and cravings were lowerd enough that after being diagnosed and being left with only 1/3 of my lungs, the sheer fright for my life enabled me to have the willpower to quit and be able to get over that first critical year without relapsing. During that time I experienced all the cravings, that slowly but surely diminished, in all honesty I still get the occasional craving now even, but determined not to let the effort to quit "go to waste". What I said is that it is not easy, there is a very real anguish, I understand it, I have been there, but it is not impossible at all.
Well done 👍
Fair enough and I am glad you managed to pack in the ciggies. However like I said I am not talking on the subjective level but from the objective one. Subjective replies reminds me of Mark Twain's famous quote 'Never argue with stupid people coz they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience'.
The nicotine receptors study was put on the smoking site a couple of years ago by Jillygirl, one of the admins. I will try and find it and will put it up here with her permission.
Taking that "onboard" I would like to know just how you class me as "stupid"?
I think that even being older I could run rings around you, without breaking a sweat. It is not me that continues to smoke after being diagnosed with a lung disease.
I have done nothing but present the researched medical facts. Just because I believe them over a "die" hard smoker who wants to believe questionable research presented by the people who are making and selling vaping products does not make me stupid, far from it!
very true and could not have put that better myself
Along time ago in another life far far away smoking was promoted for its health benefits. One thing we know without fear of contradiction. Nicotine and alcohol are poisons/Toxins best avoided...... cheers 🍷
One man's meat is another man's poison so they say.let everyone decide what route they want to follow,i am all for presenting a case for and against anything but when it becomes a crusade i quietly retreat and disappear with my glass of vino in hand to ponder what the future holds,virus free for the time being or was that a hic or a sniffle.? 
Couldn't agree more what's more annoying for me was when I was diagnosed with emphysema ect I was a smoker and asked my consultant about evape if it was as dangerous as some said
He said I'd rather you started vaping today and give up the cigarettes
I came home confused but decided no if I'm giving up putting garbage in my body then I'm not going to replace it with POTENTIALLY more garbage
How could my consultant say this it boggles my mind
Anyway I'm a year and a half off smoking which I KNOW FOR A FACT that if I wasn't told I was I'll I'd probably still be smoking isn't sad we need to get told something like this to wake up
Have a blessed day everyone xx
Sadly you are correct. Many won’t give up until the damage is well and truly done assuming it won’t happen to them (or simply not caring).
It’s the damage it does to those around them that gets to me most as the person smoking has made a choice that won’t just impact on their health but on the health of all those around them. Not necessarily from second hand smoke etc (no one try to tell me vaping does not produce toxic smoke, just because it isn’t as visible does not mean it doesn’t exist. As someone who has heightened sensitivity to such things I can smell it and it makes me cough and gag.) but from the damage caused by stress and worry for that persons health when the inevitable happens.
No consultant should be advocating for any type of smoking! That shows how little they know, just as those who promoted smoking before the truth came to light did. We all know the tobacco industry is a giant power that guides wherever possible and won’t hesitate to cover up the truth.
I am glad you have managed to stay away from smoking. It is a terrible addiction that claims too many. I pray all those attempting to break free are successful and give their lungs a fighting chance to repair some of the damage inflicted.
Controversial opinion...
Imo, smoking should be made illegal outright. The cost to the NHS is massive; perhaps banning it outright would lead to a big reduction in those even starting to smoke in the future. The sooner we start taking care of ourselves the sooner we all live happier lives.
I know that is very controversial but please don’t start banging on about human rights. The UK gave up the right to own guns because of the danger to life in the wrong hands. We did that because of a school incident (horrendous as it was) and wanted to protect our children, give them a future without fear of being shot. What is so different from making guns illegal to banning smoking for good? That would protect our children giving them a future free from a deadly and highly addictive substance that kills and damages so many, causing so much suffering and pain. Both my parents in law died from smoking. Only one of them actually smoked. They died within a year of each other. The non smoker first from cancer and then the other from numerous cancerous tumours. The irony being that the one who never smoked was killed before the smoker. If such a product was introduced today it would never be allowed to be put on sale in the first place. There are less addictive drugs that are more tightly controlled (and many banned/removed from the market) and often only used for specific conditions and even then very carefully under medical guidance, yet cigarettes and now vapes are allowed. Humanity is seriously messed up.
Well said ladytelita I could not agree more. Why PHE believe that such a "vested interest" report is accepted blindly as the truth staggers me. It has only just come to light after 5 years, proof that this was covered up.
But is already known that the tobacco industry is behind vaping, and their past track record says it all. The petitioning of MPs. Their cover-ups and campaigns of disinformation in the past. A leopard doesn't change it's spots.
I have stated from the beginning it seems a better option to tobacco smoking? But there has not been any long term tests done to prove it is safe. People have died from Vaping all over the world!
Be Well
The question remains, what aspect of vaping caused them deaths?
Apparently it is the Vapor staying in the lungs that then causes the lungs to fail due to the same effect of pneumonia. If you look at the nicotine that they can put in will act as an anesthetic as well. From what I have read? It was known at a very early stage that some flavours were not good for the lungs!
Propylene Glycol, common base of the vape juice (on both sides of the Atlantic) is a long chain molecule that does not pass through the aveoli into the blood,the Cillia can also get parallelised as with actual smoking, instead it condenses inside the lung and builds up a collection of it, this imitates Pneumonia symptoms and can be just as fatal.
Sounds interesting, have you a link to that? You could always use Vegetable Glycerine instead. I wonder if a 50/50 pg/vg makes a difference?
This is an up to date report, Jan 14 2020 from The National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI). It will be eyeopening to the dangers. Before you say anything about THC, Vitamin E Acetate is used as a thickening agent without being used as a cutting agent for THC.
Also take note of where it states:
Quote "In E-Cig users a reduced pulmonary function is often observed that is evaluated by the forced expiratory volume in one second (FEV1) and the ratio of forced expiratory volume to forced vital capacity (FEV/FVC) (Staudt et al., 2018; Meo et al., 2019). Among E-Cig users, a significant increase in MUC4, a membrane-anchored mucin, and an increase in the ratio of secretory mucins MUC5AC to MUC5B has been reported compared to non-smoking participants (Reidel et al., 2018)
So with an increase of "secretory mucins" along with paralised cillia (that expells mucous) from the nicotene content, it creates a breeding ground for bacteria causing damaging infections. Damage that is permanent.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Read from page 13
There is no page 13! It is a report contained in one continuous file.
Sorry but you are wanting to make an argument from something you obviously do not understand. Carry on vaping, any and what harm you do to yourself will not have anything to do with me. The lack of understanding "independent" scientific information will not protect you either. You can believe in a tobacco industry paid report, that is just what they want. The fact is that Nicotine is in no way as harmless as you believe, it also distorts the thought processes, it actually changes the brain. It is now obvious that nothing will change your mind. Perhaps you just don't care about your health. I can easily imagine that you will still be denying the risks until your dying day.
The lungs have been, undeniably, evolved by nature to breathe fresh air only, deliberately inhaling anything else is abuse of your body.
According to your link, or at least in the page I get ,is formatted into pages. If you prefer, scroll down to summary and future directions. Thank you for the permission to vape. It depends what you mean by “nicotine is in no way harmless” do yo have a link to brain distortion of thought processes?
answers.com/Q/Are_cigarette...
drugtimes.org/mind-altering...
verywellmind.com/how-quitti...
Nicotine is well known to have serious systemic side effects in addition to being highly addictive. It adversely affects the heart, reproductive system, lung, kidney etc. Many studies have consistently demonstrated its carcinogenic potential:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Carcinogenic potential at what doses? Can’t find mention of that. Heart , lung, kidney etc, again,at what doses?
Little is mentioned about nicotine , but of tobacco smoking.
It’s always been known nicotine is addictive. There are many factors involved in vaping, flavour, strength of the nicotine, vaping device type.
Sadly, I can recognise all the tactics and arguments that you are using, all influenced by your addiction, why? I am a recovering nicotine addict myself, as an ex heavy smoker. I have been there myself, no matter what or who tried to convince me to quit, I always had a reason not to. It was only through ill health, being unable to smoke and the very real fear of it killing me that I was able to quit. Even four years later I still get the urge, from that past addiction, to smoke, which is why I still class myself as a recovering addict rather than a non smoker.
Most ex smokers will probably agree with me, that it is not easy to quit the addiction to nicotine. I think that you believe that you have found a way to continue to feed your addiction without any harm or consequences and refuse to admit that you are still at risk. Sadly I do not believe you will change your mind until it "bites you in the backside". Even then there is a chance that you will continue, there are plenty of examples of people who are extremely ill, on supplementary oxygen, who still continue to feed their addiction. I have witnessed this myself seeing people at hospital being wheeled outside at the hospital, with their o2 bottles, just to have a smoke, probably terminal cases.
By the way I have spent my lunch break, at work, just to make this reply in hope that your mind can be changed for your own sake.
Rather weak reasoning, “I disagree with you because the demon has blinded me to your truth” . ?Are you trying to confuse nicotine effect with tobacco effect. ? All you have shown is possible, maybe, might. Further study is needed before proper conclusions can be arrived at. Are you also assuming everyone uses the same strength nicotine, wether those that have been ill with vaping aren’t “cloud chasing”, using the devices wrongly. I disagree with you because you are reaching a conclusion without all available evidence. It may very well be that nicotine in vapes is the problem, but you cannot just assert, “oh, yes, it’s nicotine’s fault”
Damn right I can! It is Nicotine that is addictive period. I am now refusing to argue with you and waste my life anymore, you are obviously set on a course of self destruction with self-abuse.
Perhaps this study will make you understand the risks you are taking. You can take it from me that Emphysema is absolutely no walk in the park.
athra.org.au/blog/2020/01/2... It took them a lot longer than New Zealand but better late than never. Unfortunately the tax-payer will pick up the tab.
This just as biased as the British PHE view that it is safe. Look again will you, nowhere does it state that it is safe as a substitute.
It is even in a glaringly visible box,
"GPs can write nicotine prescriptions where appropriate for importing nicotine e-liquids. It is legal to import 3 months of nicotine liquid for vaping if you have a prescription from a medical practitioner, under the Personal Importation Scheme".
So for continued use you need a prescription why? because it is dangerous long term!
And your authority for that is???? Millions of us have opted to switch from a known, proven killer to an alternative which is, despite the Daily Telegraph and other headline grabbers, 95% less harmful. Nothing is 100% safe, certainly not the air we breathe, so I'll stick with my vape and leave others to their prejudices.
So you wish to believe the tobacco companies report that it is 95% safe, that is your perogative. It is your life to potentially throw away. But such a pity to allow the changes made to your brain by nicotine addiction, that distorts your thought processes. You provide a link to a "Blog" that clearly suggests the medical dangers as proof that it is safe??? The mind boggles.
Why will people not just admit that they have been conned, there is no shame, we are brought up to trust the authorities, call it social engineering or even brainwashing, it is not the fault of the populous that they have been manipulated. We were also taught that we can trust a policeman, but that is not true either, many cases of policemen committing crimes.
We have to be vigilant against those that want to take advantage of us for their own ends, if you don't then you will end up being a victim.
Totally one hundred and ten percent with you 2greys!!
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