I am currently grieving the death of my best friend from COPD who was 60 years old. She lived in Kingman, AZ, US.
Certain questions regarding her death remain unanswered and I hope you could help me answer.
She was diagnosed with COPD few years back and she quit smoking. She had been doing well but for past one year she would sleep a lot, sometimes would hallucinate, developed high blood pressure and suffered bouts of depression, all of which pointed to progressing COPD.
In feb she fell ill and was found to have severe pneumonia. She was put on ventilator but got off of it and was doing better now. She was sent to a rehab where initially she was on 3 liters of oxygen which was reduced to 1 liter by the end. Her blood pressure would fluctuate every now and then, and her oxygen levels also needed readjustment.
After coming off the ventilator, she could not even get up on her own, but now she was able to walk using a walker . Though before this incident, she could walk fine.
On 25th last month she was sent home from rehab and the oxygen was removed as according to them it was no longer required. A day before, they performed a short test by removing oxygen and her oxygen level remained stable. Oxygen was put back on. I believe this test was highly flawed and she constantly needed oxygen. Anyway, she was sent home without the oxygen. She was well at the time of leaving and we talked fine. She was supposed to call me right after reaching home but I never got a call. After 4 hours I called 911 and she was found dead on the floor.
She would have immediately called me after reaching home, this means whatever happened to her happened right after stepping inside. Walking inside the house probably exhausted her.
My question is- how did she most likely died? And could it have been quick or a long process?
I can think of only two scenarios- either cardiac arrest or asphyxiation. What I fear is that if it was asphyxiation, it might have been a long and painful process as even though her oxygen levels would have dropped, they might not have dropped too much to cause an immediate death.
Also, had she not died, what approximately could her life expectancy have been?
Kindly provide your views and if anything is expected from me, kindly let me know.
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ferrari12395
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Hello ferrari12395, firstly I would like to offer my condolences at this very sad time. It's very tragic indeed. I wish I had the answers as to the reasons why your friend died, but unfortunately I don't and whatever I say would only be speculation, I am sorry I can't help. I suffer with the same condition as your friend and breathing problems are the most common complaints that go with it as we all know. I hope someone will be Intouch with you later that can offer you more help than me. God Bless and stay Intouch please āļøš
Hello ferrari, how terribly upsetting for you to have lost your dearest friend in such a tragic way. I can understand your search for answers and I hope you find some.
It does seem as if your friends COPD had progressed to such an extent that she could go on no longer. I truly hope she didnāt suffer and must add Iām no expert but your grief is very raw so please take care of yourself and keep talking. Xxxx
Hi. Very sorry for you but why if you a such good friend did you not see her home. Well we all have how problem and lives to live but life's goes on well for us. Sorry to be blunt but. And honest
I donāt think they should of sent her home with out oxygen given she clearly needed it.
But saying that you donāt know what was said and why going home unless you talk to family.
I would raise your conserns with family BUT if she never had any then Coroner.
Is grim really but I have done my later to be given to Coroner on event of my passing given my shoddy care tricks BUT will ad you do have to respect wishes of family.
As to how well itās not nice and is pretty much like you said but heart would been last thing.
Hospitals like to sedate you so is nice for family BUT this nothing nice really about any of it
Am so sorry to read such things can only imagine what your going trough really.
Hi I am so sorry to hear of the sad death of your friend. I have been told that before you die because of the inability to breathe, your organs shut down and she wouldn't have known anything about it. This is a blessing.
As for how long she would have lived - who knows? It's like asking how long a piece of string is. It sounds like she was very severe and she is at peace now. x
You alerted them very quickly and it seems they responded quickly too. Please don't beat yourself up, you could have done no more. Only a coroner can now tell you what the cause of death was. Condolences for your loss.
So sorry for your dear friends passing but I can only offer my memories of being on a ventilator also on 24/7 oxygen at 1 litre almost a fortnight ago now ...I am not sure if your friend was a retainer of carbon dioxide but I am ...anyway these checks the hospital do on oxygen levels are controversial as they only do a quick check and then take that reading as gospel and therefore is room for getting the wrong required amounts ...a young nurse turned mine up to 4 litres which is far too much for me plus was not on a respiratory ward so no one knew my background or condition which is problematic and shortly after bam I awoke in intensive care but I was looked after very well and am very grateful to all the staff ...I will say both times I have had type 2 respiratory failure I just woke suddenly as if I had been in a really deep sleep and did not remember a thing ...the only thing I do remember must,ve been when the sedation was wearing off and I was coming round ...but as for actually collapsing or not breathing for myself I can safely say I didn't know a thing ...please try to take comfort in this as your friend would not want you torturing yourself now she has sadly passed ...hope this helps you and hope you can carry on with a happy life as your friend im sure would want xxx
Ofcourse not! Your reply was helpful. I'm just wondering that either two things happened to her. Either it was a cardiac arrest due to lack of oxygen or her oxygen level dropped low. But it couldn't have dropped below 80%. Had it dropped too low then she would have gotten unconscious quickly and passed away. The only scenario I dont understand is what happens when your oxygen level drops low but not low enough to make you go unconscious. If that happened to her, could she have been gasping for air for hours? Am i wrong?
Yes, you are wrong. The air we breathe and the oxygen we need are 2 different things. Many are short of breath with very high oxygen and others can have low oxygen levels without being too out of breath. My oxygen levels often drop very low when I am ill but I don't get breathless. Please stop torturing yourself. The likelihood is that she did NOT die gasping for breath. x
So sorry to hear of your sad loss ferrari. She was very lucky to have such a kind, caring friend as you and I imagine as you were best friends that was a two way street.
Ferrari,as others have stated you are asking a question that no one other than a medical professional who attended could give you the answer to,with regards to sats,my o2 levels often drop into the 70's without distress or gasping for air,my heart doesn't react by working any harder and at no time do i lose consciousness.it may be that your friend had other underlying health issues that were responsible for her demise.please accept my condolences for the loss of your good friend and rest assured that you did all you can for them given the circumstances.now is the time for you to remember your friendship and grieve as best you can............regards Ski's and Scruffs
Hi Ferrari firstly may I offer my sincere condolences to you on losing your dear friend. You were obviously very close and you cared for her an awful lot. She was lucky to have you as such a good friend.
You have had some wonderful responses from others on here and I can only agree that you must somehow stop torturing yourself with 'what ifs' and try to let yourself grieve. Remember the good times.
I am terribly sorry about your friend. I know words do not make any of this better and there is not much comfort in "sorry".
I am guessing (and this is just literally guessing) your friend may have had COPD for sometime , maybe even before she even realized something was wrong. And in that time it wreaked the havoc that lung diseases do. The problem with lungs is that it is very difficult, nigh impossible to "fix" them, once the damage is done. And for some people, progression is slow and for others it's like a raging fire , no matter what is done it keeps going forward.
I, and no one here can say if the treatment she received was right of wrong, as I am sure you can understand. I will say if she desaturated to the point of passing out, she will not have felt it or known what was happening. She would have just slipped away. I know this because it happened once to me. When I came to, I had no recollection other than I had been light headed earlier in the day.
It is so hard to lose someone you love, but when they are far away, it magnifies that grief ten fold. How fortuitous for the both of you to have something so precious between you. Many of us live a lifetime and do not have the good fortune of such a friendship.
Your dear friend will always be with you. And you with her, for I am certain that she is nearer to you now, than before when she lived all that way in a different country. I am also pretty sure she is at peace.
I went to a specialist today and discussed everything. He said that it was most probably from three causes: pulmonary embolism, cardiac arrest or a stroke all resulting from the clots she had in her legs. This happened at 3 30. Medical examiner's report suggests that at 8 30 her body was found to be warm. This is what's bothering me most because this suggests that she was unconscious but alive for at least two hours. I wonder if help arrived in those two hours, could she have been saved.
My answer to that is I really don't know. I also am not sure how the specialist came up with the time frame. If she had, had a stroke it would have been pretty massive considering she had clots in her legs. I would imagine her quality of life if she had survived would have been severely diminished. It's something that is very hard to be certain about.
I wonder if you are able one day to visit her resting place? It may help you find some closure. I wish I can give you some peace of mind, but I can't.
I hope slowly, you will be able to find closure. And when you do, may love be what you remember most about your dear friend, and not the unfortunate circumstances surrounding her demise.
Hi Ferrari I was sorry to hear of your loss I am at end stage COPD although I was diagnosed in 2005 the last year has seen a rapid decline. I am on 6 litres Oxygen 24x7 and I am being hospitalised on average once every 4 - 6 weeks due to excerbations. It is almost certain that your friend suffered a cardiac arrest which would have been quick. I hold a do not resuscitate form in the event of heart failure but being realistic I don't expect to see the end of this year but I just take each day as it comes.
I'm so sorry for your loss of your best friend .I am 70 and have had copd for 15 years .Unfortunately it is the 4 th common killer after cancer , heart etc .I can only assume her heart gave out as she was having so much treatment . If her COPD was managed she could live quite a long time so I guess she had other underlying problems .We on this site can only offer our sympathies not medical advice .I hope you get some answers soon .Sending you hugs
My deepest condolences for the loss of a dear and best friend. I am sure that she and you took comfort in knowing that you were there for each other. I wonder if, and it's a big if... her illness was now at a point when it was a bit too much for her. So on choosing her time she could come home. There she could settle and make the final part of her life journey- she may not have wanted to tell you her choice, as I know what I would say to my dearest friend if they told me they had come home to die. Death when it comes is painful for those who are left behind - take time now to heal yourself and comfort yourself in good memories. I am sure your friend would be touched at your concern. But she would be concerned about you too now. I hope you all the support you need. God Bless you
Thank you for the suggestion. I dont believe it was her choice as she was found on the floor with her walker right next to her. I believe she passed out while walking.
Hi I had a dear online friend who was very severe, She was found passed out on the floor at home by a relative. She was taken to hospital and said she remembered nothing about it coz her sats (oxygen level) had dropped very low very quickly and she just went out like a light.
She was taken to hospital then discharged like your friend and a week or so later the same thing happened and it was too late to save her this time. This must have been what happened to your friend so rest assured it would have been peaceful for her.
The chances are you will never know 100% but the important thing now is you have your lovely memories of her and she will live in your heart forever. x
Ferrari. She's gone now just let go life is for the livin. And her suffering is over. What ever happened as happened. I know it's difficult but she would not want you tormenting yourself and going over her passing , better try to think all the good she done and better times you had and Iam sure she did not suffer. She most prob passed out and it was all over for her. Sadly. Things do go wrong in sometime in hospital just very unlucky. Here in the uk we lucky that we get free health care the thought of not being able to pay or have the correct insurance is. A terriable idea take care. Paul.
Sorry for late reply.With severe COPD it is hard to pinpoint the exact cause of death.
My mother died aged 60 from a Image result from Myocardial infarction brought on by years of COPD.
You story is very similar to a friend of mine who died aged 76 - In almost identical circumstances as your friend.
The sad truth is if you have severe COPD to can go at any time from infections and heart problems.
For what it's worth the three people who I know who have died from COPD did not suffer long in the actual dying process.
This is a sad time for you as it is for all when loved ones pass away. My advice is not medical as I am no doctor and no privy yo what happened - Don't torment yourself, she has passed away and and all the question in the world will never be answered.
You said "My question is- how did she most likely died? And could it have been quick or a long process?"
This happened to the partner of the 76 year old friend mentioned above, he did not suffer - He just died.
Thank you. I went to a specialist today and discussed everything. He said that it was most probably from three causes: pulmonary embolism, cardiac arrest or a stroke all resulting from the clots she had in her legs. This happened at 3 30. Medical examiner's report suggests that at 8 30 her body was found to be warm. This is what's bothering me most because this suggests that she was unconscious but alive for at least two hours. I wonder if help arrived in those two hours, could she have been saved.
My friend was in hospital with her oxygen levels low after a chest infection. They got her SPO2 up to 85% and was to be allowed home the following day. She collapsed in hospital and died..Help was on hand but she could not be saved..Also if she was "unconscious" she would be unaware of what was happening. so doubtful she suffered. You obviously cared a great deal, but your questions are really not answerable - I when my mother died at 60 wondered had she gone to hospital would she have lived longer - We will never know... I wish you all the best and hope you can come to terms with what happened soon,,
I went to a specialist today and discussed everything. He said that it was most probably from three causes: pulmonary embolism, cardiac arrest or a stroke all resulting from the clots she had in her legs. This happened at 3 30. Medical examiner's report suggests that at 8 30 her body was found to be warm. This is what's bothering me most because this suggests that she was unconscious but alive for at least two hours. I wonder if help arrived in those two hours, could she have been saved.
Dear fast car doing 95 in 3 seconds, you are a dearly tremendous friend. Don't know what you believe in, but I suspect there is a smiling and loving spirit shining in your direction. Answers will vary, be they from me or anyone dealing with illness. But you have our support. You must know that YOU were one of the final joys, smiles, communications, thoughts that your friend had. Remember this. That is what is real. That is what matters. That is what would be important to me if I was dying and unable to call my bestest friend in another country. I would know they care and that the remaining double digit minutes were shared in part with them.
So hold our hand and let us squeeze and love on you.
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