Log Burner

[AppleOrchard]

One of my triggers is an open fire. Is there anyone who has had success with a closed log burner? I’d so love one but don’t want it to be a trigger!

Thank you very much.

[Wheezycat]

We don't have one, nor do we want one. They are significant polluters whether closed or not. Also I have at times reacted to others' log burners. I am profoundly wary of them. Anything 'burney' is a no-no for me, and if you react on open fires I'd be wary of them if I were you.

[AppleOrchard in reply to Wheezycat]

I can’t say I’m a huge fan either. But I’m freezing every evening. I’m wrapped up in a blanket fleece and one on my legs too. I’d just like to add some warmth to the room.

Thank you!

[Wheezycat in reply to AppleOrchard]

That you feel the need to get warmer I can well understand! We use a ceramic portable heater, and I also have a heated blanket that I can turn on for an hour over my knees, but of course both those use energy. It is difficult, isn’t it.

[AppleOrchard in reply to Wheezycat]

It’s really hard because we were not using the heating much.

We have wood coming out of our ears here so it wouldn’t cost the earth to use. I’m reluctant to get a gas one because it’ll be so expensive to run.

I use my duvet on my legs when it gets really cold.

Thank you for your reply.

[AppleOrchard in reply to Wheezycat]

Is a ceramic heater expensive to run? Thank you

[Wheezycat in reply to AppleOrchard]

I haven’t had it long enough to be able to compare yet. It is supposed to be pretty similar as a convection heater, or slightly less.

[AppleOrchard in reply to Wheezycat]

Thank you! I’ll look into it. It would be interesting to know.

[Hidden]

I cannot do open fires or log burns or any wood smoke. Not sure I know what a closed log burner is sorry.

[AppleOrchard in reply to Hidden]

Thank you!

It just means there is glass door on the front.

[Wheezycat in reply to AppleOrchard]

Some are better than others, that much I know, but I believe none do completely cut out the pollution.

[AppleOrchard]

I’m sure they don’t but as you say, some are better than others.

[PattyT22]

We have one! It’s much better than open fire but still affects me. I have to be out of the room when it’s lit and if it isn’t a successful light first time my husband cannot reopen it that evening to restart it as smoke comes out and I’m off wheezing. Like you we have loads of wood and are hoping to use it this winter but my chest is very bad now and not sure I will be able to be in the room. X

[AppleOrchard in reply to PattyT22]

I’m sorry your chest is bad at the moment. I have heard about ensuring it starts first time otherwise that’s it for the evening. The smoke in the room is awful if it’s opened and smoking.

Hopefully your chest improves very soon.

[achyknitter]

Open fires are also one of my triggers. However, my cousin has a wood burning stove and I never have a problem when I am visiting. According to him this is because he only burns logs which have been stored for at least ten years. On the other hand my nephew’s wood burning stove almost immediately causes me to have an asthma attack as he not only burns new logs but does not understand how to use the various vents and is forever opening the door to prod the fire. Overall I would not have one if I could avoid it as, whilst I have no problem with my cousin’s wood burner for one day at a time, it might well be a different story if I had to live with one every day.

Hope you soon find a solution and feel warm of an evening.

[AppleOrchard in reply to achyknitter]

That’s interesting to know. We used to have a fire when we lived abroad and the wet wood from the forest was a disaster. But in those days, my asthma wasn’t like this.

I think wood must be properly seasoned so it doesn’t smoke.

I’ll soon find out if I can tolerate it because I’m going to stay with my brother and he has one.

Thank you for the information.

[Itswonderful]

I have two multifuel burners and I have no problem with them. When I light them, I make sure I do a good light so it takes first time. So I use two or three very good fire lighters such as Zip and have all the vents open. I use lots of dry kindle and some smokeless ovals to hold it in. The wood has to be dry so it burns well. Wet wood gives out no heat and just smokes. The trick is to get a good burning fire so it draws upwards and there is very little smoke anyway. You can wear a mask and open windows when you empty the ash if it affects you.

Different wood/ multifuel burners vary in how easy they are to light and keep in. Research well, buy a good stove and take advice from a few suppliers/ fitters. Stoves are much more sophisticated now and well sealed. For me, the greatest enemy is cold air and low humidity. My multifuel burners keep me well.

[AppleOrchard in reply to Itswonderful]

This is amazing and I’m so glad it works for you. I can see the type of burner you have and the type of starter / logs is so important. What type / make of burner do you have?

We’re going to stay at my brother’s house for a few days and he has one. I’ll see how it goes with that first. I think it’ll be long enough to know how it would be.

They are more sophisticated these days and much better at keeping the room clear of smoke.

Thank you very much for your comment.

[fraid]

Isn’t the point that smoke comes out of the chimney, polluting the air we all have to breathe? I have just opened the window and got a gulp of someone else’s smoke- set my asthma off right away. The cheapest temporary heat may be hot water bottles and heat pads cost far less to run than heating on . Heat the person not the whole house, as they say.

[AppleOrchard in reply to fraid]

Cold air is a trigger for my asthma and my son’s too so having a cold room isn’t an option.

When we lived abroad everyone had open fires and there was never any toxic smoke coming out the chimney. Perhaps the person this morning was burning leaves or something. I’m sure that’s a huge trigger.

[peege]

I believe in England new wood & multi fuel stoves have to comply with strict DEFRA regulations - I dont know how that's done I'm guessing filters - anyway, they're very expensive. There's a shop 2 minutes from my home and I always look longingly at the white enamelled one in the window, I think it’s £3500 then there's the cost of having it fitted by a properly qualified person.

I live in a town, walking the dog in the evening I often have to pull on a mask due to smoke in the air. I cant imagine what the neighbours are burning, as with most towns in England it's a smokeless zone!

As achyknitter says, the wood has to be well seasoned, young cut wood produces so much smoke every time you open the door. My son's white walls in France are all smoke stained, he's learnt now to use seasoned wood.

I have a gas fire in my sitting room, looks like a real coal fire. I've been experimenting lately with just lighting it in the evening and it costs half as much as having the central heating on. For the daytime I wear thermal socks & underwear.

[runcyclexcski in reply to peege]

>>>My son's white walls in France are all smoke stained

What about the lungs?

[peege in reply to runcyclexcski]

Know! He has asthma too. The chimney stack passes up through their child's bedroom warming his room. There's a little vent on it and there's black around it 😱

[runcyclexcski in reply to peege]

I hope that eventually there will be as much awareness of these issues among the public as there is about smoking...

[Itswonderful in reply to runcyclexcski]

don’t know the laws in France but in UK they are strict. A registered stove installer will not have vents in the house and the flue has to be at a height that carries any smoke away though if used properly there isn’t any smoke. The thing is, this country used coal and gas to produce electricity. Gas boilers and fires in houses also give off fumes and gas flues are often at head level. There’s fumes everywhere sadly. It’s not solely wood burners in individual houses. I can’t cope with cigarette smoke and that is everywhere outside all year round now that the law means smokers have to smoke out doors. I just have to know my triggers and manage it all.

[Mandevilla]

I haven't lived with a woodburner since my asthma developed although I used to have one several years ago. But we usually have a woodburner in the places where we go on holiday. I've never had any trouble with them, but I did have trouble both times we stayed somewhere with an open fire instead.

New wood burners are much more fuel efficient and cleaner than the old ones. As others have said, it also helps if you burn properly seasoned wood.

Could you try booking a holiday somewhere that has a woodburner so that you can test it out?

[runcyclexcski in reply to Mandevilla]

>>>more fuel efficient and cleaner than the old ones

They may be cleaner for their users, but to everyone outside smoke is smoke. Filters won't work b.c. the amount of soot will instantly clog the filter.

[Mandevilla in reply to runcyclexcski]

The original question was whether anyone who has experienced difficulty with an open fire in the house has been able to cope with a wood burner. I was answering that question. It is up to the OP to decide whether having a woodburner in her home would impact the neighbours - if they have any nearby.

[runcyclexcski in reply to Mandevilla]

Mandevilla -- I apologize, I did not mean to sound negative, I was just commenting about wood burners in general. Coal and wood are old technologies when people lived for 30 years anyway, and clean air was not a major concern -- basic food and survival were.

[runcyclexcski]

Gas is costly, but Xolair injections due to asthma exacerbations from wood smoke are even costlier/harder to get. And the wood smoke affects the neighbors, too.

[Lysistrata Administrator Community Ambassador in reply to runcyclexcski]

Agreed, more or less (though I'm going to be annoying again and point out that Xolair specifically isn't really targeting that type of exacerbation, as reacting to woodsmoke isn't an allergic response. Unless the fuel is something you're allergic to I guess, which would add another layer on top of the irritant trigger!)

However, I do appreciate that some people really can't afford the heating currently, which makes it very difficult. I also think 'heat the person not the house' as you hear often is not a good solution for many asthmatics - or quite possibly with other lung conditions. I get really fed up with seeing (presumably) healthy people/non-asthmatics/people who aren't triggered by temperature changes say 'no one needs the heating on at night, it's bad for you', or 'just wear another jumper'. Sure I can do that too, but also I can heat my body all I want but it is the quality and temperature of the air I'm breathing which is going to make a difference to my asthma.

AppleOrchard, it may help to look into small convection heaters - I bought one from Argos which is small but chucks out heat and helps to warm my room where I work from home which gets very cold and does affect me. I think it should work out less than central heating for the whole house/flat. I think someone did a study and worked out that people overestimate the cost of most appliances they run, except gas central heating which they underestimate!

[runcyclexcski in reply to Lysistrata]

>>>targeting that type of exacerbation, as reacting to woodsmoke isn't an allergic response. Unless the fuel is something you're allergic to I guess, which would add another layer on top of the irritant trigger!)

I agree, but I found that when my asthma is well controlled by Xolair, non-specific triggers like smoke, smells, dry air etc, are not that much of an issue anymore. Before Xolair, it would take one breath of smoke to end up in the A£E. This is why I wear the mask almost all the time.

Heating the entire house still leaves the problem of dry air during the winter, which is an irritant in its own right. I am a proponent of small insulated living spaces (which is the bedroom 8 hrs a day and is relatively easy to control). Switching heating on-off all the time is problematic b.c. it creates condensation and mold.

[fraid in reply to runcyclexcski]

V. interesting re putting heating on off causes condensation and mould?? How, why? Surely heat with ventilation should prevent this? I do have a damp old house,open plan, nr.sea, insulated to death but still get mould,so have to keep on top of it. Seems a particular problem down here even in new places. Told live nr sea,good for you- nope, not for me! 🤷‍♀️

[runcyclexcski in reply to fraid]

A properly insulated house with no leaks needs high-tech methods for ventilation, i.e. heat-recovery ventilation units.

A poorly ventilated small room with humans in it (humans emit vapour) may condense water on the walls when the temp drops. The most direct experiment I know is from sleeping in a tent outdoors during cold nights: the walls get covered with condensation droplets. Another source of humidity can be the bathroom: a poorly ventilated shower room, which is only heated during showering, will condense water and get mouldy. In my bathroom I run the exhaust essentially non-stop to prevent this. This creates problems with heat loss (b.c. the cold air will get sucked in somewhere else in the house), and this is solved with a heat-recovery unit.

Half of UK hotels I've been to (especially old ones) had no active exhaust in the bathroom. Some had no exhaust at all. They all look "clean" on the outside, but there is mold under the tiles, the tub etc.

I will never live next to the sea! Hurricanes and the smell of rotting algae etc... no thanks. Mountains are much better.

[fraid in reply to runcyclexcski]

Like I said, I still don’t get why an open plan bungalow, with adequate ventilation eg open windows etc gets mouldy.Presume must just be warm damp air condensation. Hurricanes? Wot,in England? Have decided better to use de hum more,cut down heating. Love this place but it is a job in winter, mould really hits my asthma. Plus you didn’t answer my question re heating on off makes things worse? Would help if I knew how to improve things, “experts” just want to sell me expensive vent systems,nope! Ta.

[runcyclexcski in reply to fraid]

Dehumidifiers are as expensive to run as space heaters. Just sayin, I don't know how big your place is. May be cheaper to gas-heat the place than to run electric dehumidifiers

That said, you can probably dehumidify the key place(s) where you spend substantial number of hrs per day -- say, the bedroom and the bathroom (where there is high humidity). Another source can be an indoor clothline to dry clothing.

Dehumidiers need to be drained constantly, and they also break down if left on non-stop. A cheap £300 dehumidifer lasted for only 1 year in my hands.

Whenever the temperature drops, the vapour in the air has a higher chance of condensing. Whether it will or not, depends on the combination of temperature and relative humidity; there are "dew point" data for that. The whole house does not need to become "cold" -- it may take a poorly insulated surface -- a window, a poorly insulated wall etc. to drop the temperature locally. The water droplets then can run down the wall and disappear out of the view., e.g. in a carpet, but make it wet/mouldy. Carpets are bad news in any scenario. My wife used to live in a house which had condensation on one wall during the winter -- it was a wall which was missing an insulation layer.

Sounds like you need someone helpful who is "on your side" and does not want to sell you stuff. A good resource is this forum (below). People in it are obsessed with building small well-insulated, and yet well-ventilated, homes.

greenbuildingforum.co.uk/ne...

[fraid in reply to runcyclexcski]

Thanks,makes sense.Though my dehumidifier still going after many years and really works one room at a time but still costly to run. I like windows open just not when pouring down! Shall check out the house forum thing.

[fraid]

Polluted air affects everyone that breathes it. Yes,damp logs obviously produce more smoke, but burning of any kind also produces pollutants. The govt. mentioned banning log fires a while ago. I mooted these points on Nextdoor and there were as many for as against, the latter mostly older folk who just wanted to care for themselves, never mind the damage caused to others and the planet.One even said she’d just bought one for £2,000, wot?? Why not spend less on clean energy?

The govt.has been more than generous in doling out money to help us pay for heating, just ask us to use it wisely. My heating is on a couple of hours once or twice a day,if I don’t heat the house it gets mouldy,so there has to be a balance. Insulated, but condensation still needs an open window!If air breathed in too cold,I breathe in through a neck warmer pulled over nose,warmer in seconds.Be warm but be considerate is all I ask.🤷‍♀️

[runcyclexcski in reply to fraid]

>>>if I don’t heat the house it gets mouldy

So true! My solution is living in a well-insulated flat, not in a house. Works well. except when the above neighbors' pipes leak.