hi all, I have been trying to follow a low carb, (semi carnivore) diet over the past couple of years…following advice/ writings etc from some great people like Nina teicholz, Paul mason, Ben Bikman for example . I have not stuck to it as keep. Falling off the wagon into carb land as it were. Anyway, my question is - what are others thoughts re low c arb, high meat diet in relation to our heart? I think we all were told to go low fat, but this has been at the cost of increased carbs,/ sugar intake, so don’t believe in the low fat argument…but given my recent heart issues, with AFib, I question the best diet? Any thoughts would be good to hear. Thanks.
meat diet…?: hi all, I have been trying... - Atrial Fibrillati...
meat diet…?
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JFJ131
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hi, I eat full fat as my fat clearance is good (had a test) and my cholesterol is ok so I only do full fat. I try to eat balanced but I too fall into carb world. That said these days I only eat sourdough and wholewheat pastas/rices. I add beans/legumes to most things to bulk out any meat dishes. So my fibre intake is v good. I also try to eat 30 diff plants/seeds per week.
Hi, you sound very good…x 30 plants weekly… good for the microbione eh…
I am a bit all over tbh, as to the best way forward with diet. Of course what is not in question is the negatives from ultra processed foods.
Thanks for your reply.
Best wishes
Hi, you sound very good…x 30 plants weekly… good for the microbione eh…
I am a bit all over tbh, as to the best way forward with diet. Of course what is not in question is the negatives from ultra processed foods.
Thanks for your reply.
Best wishes
It’s not difficult to eat at least 30 different plants a week, I can easily count 15-20 in one day as spices count - everything plant sourced counts - not just veg and fruit. Eat the rainbow as each colour will have different nutrients and micro nutrients so by eating lots of different colours and at wide variety you should cover the essentials.
sorry …I kept replying to myself lol…
Hi, you sound very good…x 30 plants weekly… good for the microbione eh…
I am a bit all over tbh, as to the best way forward with diet. Of course what is not in question is the negatives from ultra processed foods.
Thanks for your reply.
Best wishes
BobDVolunteer
The long standing advice for AF sufferers is less meat and more plant based foods. Of course as little in the way of processed foods as possible , no MSG, no alcohol etc.
As was said to me once. You won't live any longer but it will feel like it. lol 😁
I think this advice is good. I think the sickness-diet link is primarily due to processed foods, factory farming and high use of chemicals in vegetable and fruit farms. If you can source most of your food, especially meat, from organic or preferably regenerative farmers and stay away from gluten and get a bit of exercise and sprinkle kindness where ever you go, life will be good.
I do find that if I have some (a little) high quality protein - like eggs, unprocessed meat in a meal, its much easier to limit food intake until the next meal.
Good little summary! Thanks and best wishes
🤣. Reminds me of one of my dear patients, who was 85 and passed away yesterday.When told he had stomach cancer last year, the Dr told him, if he gave up his daily 2 pints of bitter at the pub and his favourite weekly piece of steak, he could probably last another 5 years.
His response was, "yes, but what a miserable b****y 5 years they would be" 😄
I will miss his humour.
I eat full fat but am careful about the fats - avocado, olive oil, nuts, seeds, cold pressed rape seed oil, omega 3’s & 6’s and oily fish but avoid red meat and processed meat. Lot of pulses, berries and green leafy veg, whole grains and fermented foods - cheese, kefir and yogurt and eggs. One small loaf of sourdough will see the week out for two of us and avoid any other bread if I can, impossible when travelling as we were today as all the stops seem only to serve rubbish fast food but I go by the 80/20 rule, as long as I eat well 80% of the time I can afford the odd rubbish meal.
I feel very envious when I see your diet. I would love to eat it but a lot of the foods listed are like poison to me - whole grains, fish, yoghurt….and been told not to eat beans or peas though I do occasionally. Now my daughter has been diagnosed coeliac going out for a meal is like crossing a minefield 😂
After a really long time with this forum, I must say that the influence of the food and the feeding habits is overemphasized. It is kind of understandable that people expect to be able to influence health problems via food, since it is the most obvious way of interacting with the surrounding world (btw, medications are also mostly taken orally), but the food has very limited and mostly indirect influence on human health. Just remember the people who spent years in concentration camps, during the WWII, being fed miserably with trash food, and who still survived, to live very long after that, many over 90 (the healing effect of fasting ,.. ???).
The rule should be - eat as little as possible, since all the food nowadays IS poisoned, no matter how large the certificates about it being organic are. Never ever eat large portions of food, but distribute it evenly during the day. If you realize that your body does not stand some kinds of food, then, of course, eliminate it from your diet, but immediately understand that your stomach is the problem, not the food. Sound person can stand all kinds of food, even being 72 yo, as I am. The diet should be diverse and balanced, without overloading the stomach with any "special" nutrients. Personally, I put the weight on "complete" nutrients, like milk and eggs. They contain absolutely all the necessary components for human body... and very well balanced.
I think genetics is the main influence. My mother, her mother and eight siblings all lived to be 94-95, and they had horrible diets - my mother's favourite foods were chocolate and cocoa drinks - her 5 brothers all smoked and drank alcohol, They were all slim verging on the underweight- Her father was killed in an accident, so what his natural lifespan would have been, is not known. I have five sisters. Eldest is 92, the next would have ve been 90, but died at 78 due to failings in the NHS system, The next is 85, I'm 81 and the baby is 72. We all have familial AF (from Dad) but our diets are varied and based on 'A little of what you fancy does you good'!!!!!
Agree, completely! Your family members have reached very impressive lifespans! In my family, we also had numerous people over 90 and one with 99,99 yo (died several months before reaching 100). Apart from mild AF, I have no other health issues, mostly thanks to genetics, at least I believe so. If we combine good genetics with carefully chosen lifestyle, reaching 90+ is quite possible.
Some well made points, but are you forgetting the yet to be established effects of processed food on the gut biome?
My intention was to send a short message: "Do not expect too much of special diets." Even more: "Do not enjoy special diets that can influence your body in negative way." Some time ago, there was a discussion in this forum on overuse of supplements, what was very important in my opinion. I am all for the modest and "normal" diet.
As for the processed food, I do not believe that any treatment of the food during the processing can be dangerous (cooking, boiling, ...). What can really be a problem, is any addition of chemicals with different purposes (smell, durability, ...). Personally, I have always a reaction after consuming vegetables treated with chemicals.
The subject of the diet is worth discussing, people are often in a doubt to find the right way - there are too many advises from specialists for nutrition, often perplexing.
Yes certainly agree re fasting and milk and eggs. Thanks for your reply.
thanks for your reply
I do not restrict fats but don't go out of my way to find them. We eat butter here not margarine for instance. Olive oil instead of sunflower oil.On the carbs, bread has gone, crisps (etc) have gone, but I do have carbs with meals, potatoes, pasta, but definitely not as much of a helping as I used to have.
I think that if you cut out carbs entirely you'll eventually break and go back to them, so i have just cut them down. Foods marked 'Low Fat' are poison because they are usually chock full of sugar to make them attractive.
Oh, and i eat lots of vegetables, lunch is usually a salad with some sort of protein (meat, fish, eggs).
All good advice. Thanks for your reply.
To quote Michael Pollan, eat food, not too much, mostly plants. And you won’t go too far wrong.
Thanks for your reply
My favourite food quote!
That would be anathema to most French people. When we were brushing up our O level French at evening classes before moving here our teacher used an article on longevity stats for teaching big numbers. His sister lived in the department where we have now lived for 23 years. It and the surrounding departments had particularly high numbers of centenarians. I remember him laughing and saying " They cook their chips in duck fat in that part of France". The emphasis on food here is that it is something to be enjoyed , celebrated ,shared with friends . If you go for a meal with French people food is a large part of the topics of conversation - favourite recipes often handed down in the family, memorable meals , restaurant recommendations. I find the prescriptiveness of the "eat plant based, no this no that" approach puritanical and joyless. I don't eat most HPFs because in my opinion they taste bad and often smell awful. I decide what fat I use in cooking or dressings on the basis of what I think goes best with the food . I use olive , sunflower , sesame , walnut and hazelnut oils ,duck fat that I have often rendered myself , chicken fat, butter and pork fat if I am making paté. I eat a very wide variety of meat , game and fish . Probably not as wide a variety of veg as is recommended as my husband is fussier about veg than I am. But then I look at those centenarians and think that there is no way they were eating berries every day. They would have gorged themselves on blueberries that they had collected in the countryside over the 2/3 weeks they were in season and bottled some for the winter , same for cèpes and chestnuts. Food was seasonal and that was part of the pleasure of eating . Here eating is first and foremost about pleasure - slow food ,4/5 hour Sunday lunches with lots of regional variation. Vive la France!
hi I only eat red meat one a week avoid processed food eat fish chicken love venison and rabbit I eat lots of veg and fruit porridge ate like this before AF and same now have no other heart issues apart from AF which is controlled with meds
I don’t count how often I eat red meat but were I to do so I suspect my diet would be similar to yours. I eat what I like and it’s all cooked from scratch - apart from ice cream on Saturdays!
I have very occasional PAF and Atrial Flutter and so far only take edoxaban.
My partner on the other hand is a carnivore…I have no interest in restrictive diets and the accompanying propaganda nonsense.
oh yes forgot to mention icecream and the odd kit kat😄
lol ..don’t blame you !
lol ..don’t blame you !
recent research has proved that a diet low on carbs can trigger AF, as well as an excess of fish oil and Omega3.
Reference please?
Posting links is strictly forbidden. You’ll have to take my word for it, I’m afraid. 😉
Can’t you put the link in the chat? On a different HU site academic links are allowed. Not forbidden by HU in that case.
I even mailed to get an exceptional approval. This is the reply.
Mail message
Only speaking for myself here, i done low carb a few years back and felt that my afib had lessened somewhat, also took omega 3 for years and then have stopped for about 2 years, either way it had no impact on my afib.
Just my opinion: full fat butter, milk, meat, fish and eggs. Bit of fruit and veg but not too much since our guts have to work much harder to digest them, and this, I would have thought, has a knock on effect on the heart. Sugar is the problem, not fat and protein. It goes against popular narrative of course. Our bodies are designed to live on fat and protein. I've cut out pasta, rice and processed sauces almost completely and eat potato and good bread (sourdough, not supermarket pap) as carb sources. My weakness is biscuits unfortunately.
Totally agree with all you say… including the last bit about weakness! lol
If you can watch The Game Changers by James Cameron Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jackie Chan, Lewis Hamilton, Novak Djokovic and Chris Paul. gamechangersmovie.com/ It's about what meat also brings with it. I don't really follow any diet now but bear it in mind. I avoid red meat as much as possible. and high in fruit and veg and cereals.
All the best
Roy
Will have a look, thanks and best wishes
'Meat and 2 veg' man here but the veg just as a 'garnish', mainly meat.
Yorkshire pudding is not a vegetable.
Breakfast cereal was not developed for nutritional reasons, (google 'Kelloggs and masturbation')
My EP, 6 years ago; "In cases like you we call it 'lone atrial fibrillation' as we have no idea what has caused it, but seeing as you are ex military I'd probably put it down to too much exercise, alcohol and coffee!"
my symptoms have gone since giving up processed food especially sugar and gluten. I still have carbs in fruit/veg but few complex carbs such as grains/potatoes. I’ve lost 30lbs and heart symptoms gone and no meds needed. Too much protein is toxic to the body so I eat normal amounts - an egg every day, cottage cheese and a piece of chicken or fish. I do have oatcakes which are tolerated well.
Guessing it's all about balance? 🤷🏻♀️
I haven’t eaten meat or dairy for many years , have a healthy diet with plenty of fruit and vegetables and my PAF is controlled with Flecainide. I was well into my 70s before the PAF struck following a virus when I wasn’t able to get a GP appointment and an antiviral but have reached 80! I have never been overweight but have been feeling very bloated with the drugs and chronic fatigue.
After heart attack, VERY strongly advised to cut right down on red meat . Diabetic husband needs to reduce carbs so I would never adopt any one specific diet; simply a balanced , varied diet with moderate amounts of most things and for me, an emphasis on keeping my cholesterol within limits.
I follow Dr. William Davis of the Wheat Belly books. I have read most of his books. He is/was a heart surgeon and he says more than 15 grams of carbs per meal causes heart issues. Mostly the carbs that cause problems are the grains. Here in the US wheat is in everything and once I took a close look sure enough. Mostly he says eat real food, we have a lot of processed foods here just looking at most Americans one can see right off they are eating a lot of the wrong foods. In his book be makes light of the fact that we see a lot of Wheat Bellies, Muffin tops, and Bagel Butts. Its true.
So, watch the grain intake, eat fresh fruit and veggies when we can, source of protein which can be fish or meat. If you feel good afterward is the key.
There are a great many foods that help us feel better and some that makes us feel horrible.
Very true… if we just listen to our body. I also have listened to William David re wheat belly. Bread is so nice…but yes, bloats and I never feel good after it.
watch the movie The Game Changer (on Netflix)
My son is on a all meat diet and cheese and eggs and that is pretty much ! He has sugar and he did lose so far 25 pounds! I am waiting until he sees his doctor to see how his blood work turn out, that is the question! Oh, all the fats and butter you want!
I certainly agree with you on the “low fat diet” and apart from my regular weekly dose of ice cream I try to avoid all prepared, prepackaged food with all the sugar - even in savoury dishes .
Hi
Just eat healthy.
Salmon oily fish, olive oil, the slow fermented sour dough best, veges, fruit include banana, oranges etc and potato, kumara, then nuts and seeds. Oats natural not processed best. Calcium in yoghurt, milk, cheese etc usually good for you.
It is the processing of our foods which are not heathy but one day a week shouldn't bother you.
Too much focus on food gives stress and stress leads to more episodes to AF.
Try not to be too fixatated on food. Enjoy.
Cherio JOY
I have CKD (chronic kidney disease) and was overweight. I gave up sugar and sweeteners and most meat (protein stresses the kidneys), went plant-based, and am so much healthier now, no AF either.
Hi,
I’ve been following a low carb diet for about 8 weeks now. I was already eating a lot of veggies but very little red meat, just chicken or vegetarian options. Since going low carb I have dramatically increased both meat and fat consumption and have to say that I feel so much better as a result. I’m in persistent AFib and have been for a long time now. The meds I am on weren’t controlling my resting rate overly well but, since the diet change, that has improved considerably.
I have also followed with interest the writings etc. of the low carb advocates you mention, as well as the videos put out by Dr Eric Westman, who has been researching and using the low carb/keto approach in his practice in the US for many years to reverse Type II diabetes, high blood pressure etc.
I have also discovered I am sensitive to foods high in oxalates. Eating these foods causes my heart rate to spike for a good couple of hours after doing so. As a result spinach, chard and chocolate are off the menu but happily there are plenty of low oxalate veggies available.
I have no trouble sticking to the low carb lifestyle as I feel so much better doing so. Not only have my troublesome varicose veins disappeared but my joint and back pain have also gone, so, for me, it has been very helpful. Interestingly, I have had a couple of times when I’ve eaten a high carb food - cake at a friend’s birthday celebration etc. and the next morning, not only was the joint pain back but also the varicose veins returned, bizarre or what!
Anyway, that’s just my experience. I hope you find a way of eating that works for you.
All the best
TC
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