I had my ablation last Wednesday and I’ve had no a fib or heart funny business or anything out of line. I am off of flecainide and only take a low-dose blood pressure medicine to keep my blood pressure down. I am only taking Eliquis at this point as well. My IEP is a hardliner when it comes to diet. He absolutely wants me on a full plant-based diet saying that if it doesn’t come from the ground or grow on a tree not to eat it. And he means it every time I leave the office he looks at me and says plant-based and then turns and walks away. He has been eating that way for 25 years. I asked one of his staff members what he eats for breakfast and they said vegetables. That is a hard one for me. I don’t like bread but I do like a little chicken no red meat and mostly vegetables. He firmly believes that anyone with a fib must completely stay away from all Animal fat. I was just wondering what your thoughts are I know that some people here are on a higher fat diet and low-carb. My EP says no pasta bread. End of story. I’m just wondering what all your thoughts are. Thanks!
AFib and diet: I had my ablation last... - Atrial Fibrillati...
AFib and diet
I imagine in some people, diet can be a trigger. However, there are no randomized studies that show high protein,moderate fat, low carbs to be more effective in maintaining NSR, than the opposite. There is general agreement that low salt is helpful for BP and keeping your lipids in reasonable range is helpful in preventing CAD. Personally since converting from afib to NSR 2 years ago with the help of dofetilide, Ihave eaten a diet high on red meat, fish and olive oil. I have cut my carb snacks and eaten what veggies I tolerate ( taste wise). Eat, enjoy life, and don't sweat the small stuff. If you are eating wrong for you, your body will let you know.
"Like" has nothing to do with it when it comes to health.
It is just a matter of stopping,, it is nothing more than habbit .
I now live plant based,, no grains or seeds because of Antinutrients and no spinach or rubbarb as they are high in oxalic acid, Potatoes and tomatoes can cause alot of inflamation! I eat 99% raw, mainly fruit and sometimes light salad,,, dressing is balsamic or lemon juice and the only oil is olive,, if I do have a little salt it is completely narural unbleached sea salt,, this stuff is a dirty looking colour and damp.
It's amazing how your tastes quickly change,, I do occasionaly but I mean "occasionaly" have a one or two nuts perhaps once a month or so or perhaps something with beans but beans are always organic and sprouted.
And before anyone asks about where I get my B12 Iron and protein,,, my bloods are better than ever.
I only offer this as "what I do", I do not desire critisim and the subject is not open for discussion, I have done a lot of research way beyond commonly held beliefs and I am commited.
Auctualy the smell of dead animal flesh cooking has become quite repulsive,, it's a filthy smell but you don't realise it until you stop eating it and clean up your diet,,, someone passing with a ciggerette is another one I have become very sensitive to,, and passing a cafe or resturant,, the smell eminating always smells like filthy greese.
I asked myself a long time ago,,, what sort of animal are we,, what is the diet of that animal,, I believe it's simple but we complicate it like everything else !
I find your response quite interesting. Since I stopped all red meat I cannot even smell it cooking so I completely understand. It only stands to reason that the same would be true with other things like chicken etc. my EP does extensive research on everything and is committed to this life style. I think he eats beans. Not sure about nuts. Walnuts have been shown to stop breast cancer from spreading and maybe even starting. I am going to eat this way and see how it goes. I am always anemic as I have the MTHFR mutation. Thank you for your input.
Then I suggest you get advice on your anaemia, and ways to correct it or help it as this can be quite draining on the body
I believe we must address Antinutreiants,, I do not think it's as simple as to just keep adding whatever is said to me missing.
Not sure what you mean, but good luck
I suggest doing a lot of reading on Antinutreiants.
Yes I know about them,
It was you last few words I didn’t understand
But most plants don’t want us to eat them , they have their own protection mechanism and sometimes it isn’t good for us,
Yes I’ve been chronically anemic for many years as is my daughter and my mother. It’s definitely genetic. I can only take a plant-based iron that I get at our Whole Foods market. It’s easy on my liver but still I seem to suffer with it. I lost blood during the surgery not a lot but some just enough to push me over. Thank you for your thoughts 😊
A mostly plant based diet has been recommended by some of the members on here for quite a while now. It goes alongside avoiding anything that contains artificial additives, sugar, losing weight if needed and avoiding alcohol. This way of eating has certainly reduced my AF and I'm now 5 months without any AF attacks whatsoever.
Another thing to remember to do is to breathe, sometimes we get so absorbed in what we're doing that our breathing becomes too shallow, which leads to our hearts protesting.
Sounds like you have an EP that gives great advice.
Jean
Jean you are spot on regarding breathing. Many of my afib attacks were due to forgetting to breath. Jean I am sure I read you had an ablation is that correct? Did you stop having afib as a direct result of your diet? Yes I have been really mostly plant based for sometime but not totally. I plan on making that happen beginning tomorrow. Thank you for the information. It is a controversial topic and I respect that not everyone is on board with this idea. My EP wrote a book about this. He used to say fish was ok until he did more research and now says no. Plant based period. Thanks Jean
I've had 3 ablations, the first two didn't help. The third one three years ago did, but I still kept getting attacks and each winter I would go into constant AF. I had a cardioversion early January this year and cut out all white sugar from my diet, also started wearing looser fitting clothes around my waist (dresses now) and I believe that's why I've been AF free, but it remains to be seen whether it returns this winter.
Jean
Well let’s pray it doesn’t! Take good care. I like the idea of loose fitting clothing.
Also connected to/in support of Jean's point and breathing, for me: posture. When I sit slumped a long while or sleep crooked my heart gets really mad. I think there's a posture/skeletal component to all of this, in addition to the chemical/diet.
I agree wholeheartedly with you about posture. Couldn’t understand why four episodes of AF started while quietly sitting at a table doing crossword. Then I took a look at my posture!!
Di
Jean Jeanie
Correct we must breath properly
When I walk now I sound like a Train at times!
John
Seventy Nine
Mmmmm.....I think no-one should dictate another’s diet or force their beliefs on another. My personal take is the 80% plant 20% poultry/fish/meat is a good mix for me.
I think it is really important what NOT to eat = anything white - sugar, white flour = biscuits, cakes, pasta, bread. ALL processed foods which will include stuff like tomato sauce. General rule:- if it has more than 5 ingredients or you don’t know what the ingredient is - put it back on the shelf.
I don’t see meat as the big baddy - I see the way it is produced in US as the big baddy.
I do think we need red meat, organic, grass fed, good quality meat, fish - sustainably caught and poultry - preferably not chicken unless it is organic and free range and had good welfare standards. As I live by the sea in a town which lands fish daily in the SW of UK and am surrounded by farms which specialise in grass fed meat - that’s pretty easy for me to say and do. Much harder if you live in a big city although I often think London has a better choice of organic foods than we do - expensive though.
As to breakfasts - easy - you can and should eat a good whole meal grain, never every white. I prefer sour-dough I make my own from my own developed starter dough so I know there is absolutely no commercial yeasts or adulterations in it but I make it myself along with a lot of other fermented foods such as kefir, Jun, sauerkraut & lacto fermented vegetables.
Join the Healthy Eating forum in HU or look up recipes from Ottolenghi or The Doctor’s Kitchen - as a doctor he has some great, tasty breakfast recipes including eggs (excellent) and vegetables Include lots of herbs and spices.
Gluten for me is to be avoided but I can eat a small amounts, mainly when we are away.
For me, what is more important is alcohol = only on special occasions and to exercise when I can.
Hope that helps.
Yes helps a lot. I love that you make all those things. I use to but my life is so hectic these days raising. 10 year old at 62. My husband is going to retire at the end of the year. I wouldn’t trade if for anything however, it’s hard to find balance. I work full time as an RN. Not at the bedside any longer but nonetheless healthcare is busy! I know I need to loose at least 20 pounds. I have been addressing that seriously. This ablation has been more than I anticipated and I want to give it the absolute best chance to be successful. I love your description of where you live and what your food choices are there. I live in The US in a small town about 60 miles north of Los Angeles. I live on 2.5 acres and am considering growing as much of my produce as possible. Given my lifestyle I’m not sure how that will work but where there’s a will there’s a way! Thanks for your comments. Very much appreciated. 😊
That sounds great! I think we need to get back down & dirty regarding our food so if you can, great idea to grow what you can. We don’t have enough land but I am creating a big herb garden & we grow cucumbers & tomatoes in our greenhouse quite successfully.
Geography & genes also dictate what you can eat - you could hardly tell an Eskimo to eat a plant based diet could you? 😂
I’ve thought of putting a greenhouse because the weather is very cold (not by your standards) I’m sure here in the winter. I can’t grow citrus for sure. I have an apple tree, plum, apricot and peach tree. I love growing fruit. I saw how herbs were grown in an English journal years ago in a smaller space and I loved it. They were grown in the holes of block wall pieces. Stacked and very cool for sure! Well I’m glad no one is shy on this forum. It’s refreshing to hear everyone’s passion and thoughts about these subjects. It’s important to have open and frank discussion about important matters😊
Interestingly our climate is temperate as we are by the sea & I am pretty self sufficient in lemons but I do put the trees in the greenhouse to overwinter. It’s the wind they object to & this year it’s been almost constantly windy so lots of fruits but they are blackening because of the wind.
I see. Yes sea temperature is much different. How big is your greenhouse? Do you grow all year?
6x8ft so quite small. In winter it houses a lot of my more delicate, pot grown plants such as the citrus & seedlings such as micro leaves. I haven’t the energy these days to do a lot. Last winter was very mild but the winter before was more extreme - a first here - freezing rain! Never encountered it before but we couldn’t open our rear entrance doors for 3 days as the ice was so thick.
Unpredictable probably is more descriptive of our climate.
6x8 is a very decent size. I am planning on something that size. Interesting about your weather. Freezing rain does not sound fun. I am at 3000 feet above sea level so we get some extreme weather here sometimes it snows some and it gets hot sometimes too hot for me like around 108. Not often and not long maybe a few days but it’s miserable!
My husband and I were talking yesterday about a trip we made a few years ago to your area - prompted by a comment whilst watching the US Golf Open - we travelled right down the West Coast from Seattle to Los Angeles. One of the things that really surprised me is just how cold the coast was compared to the heat of the mountains, this was May/June. I had packed a variety of clothes as we flew into Denver (17” snow the day after arrival) as my husband had business there so I was very glad of some the winter clothes I had in my pack travelling down to San Francisco particularly.
In the UK we think of the coast as a warmer in winter because we benefit from the warming affect of the Gulf Stream currents and we rarely have frost, snow or ice and we forget that in ‘sunny’ California, although a different latitude, the sea mists have quite the opposite affect, cooling the land whilst the mountains have a drier more extreme continental climate. We met some sailors in Santa Barbara who were amazed that we sailed in winter at our lattitude - they expected us to be iced in because they may be in US at the same lattitude.
My cousin and I plan on growing fruits and vegetables, and trying to become more self sustaining. I am tired of finding these items are not even from my country. I don’t want imported bacteria, and it seems like quite often. There are outbreaks of various types on foods. That should be nothing but healthy for us. If we handle and grow our own and get sick, and we can only blame ourselves. Many good chefs will only use seasonal vegetables for their menus there is a reason for that.
Get hubby to start your eating garden, and let him cook,
It’s up to you what you eat.... it’s not your doctor’s decision.
I eat meat and ‘white’ things.
Moderation is the key.
Vegetables for breakfast? No thanks. 👍❤️
I know that was my response to vegetables for breakfast!😊thanks
My doctor told me if I didn’t change my lifestyle then. Nothing he did for me would last. After seeing all the people in the other cardiologist offices (the ones who never mentioned lifestyle). They were in wheelchairs and on oxygen. I decided to change even though I was already mostly eating a healthier diet. I do feel so much better when I don’t eat processed food. Yes I do think it’s a doctor’s Place to tell you what to eat. You can do it or not.
I don’t agree, a doctor can advise.... and obviously you can take that advice or not. However a plant based diet is not the only healthier diet around.
On a personal note, I did change but not to plant based. That is not everyone’s cup of tea.
vegetables can be yummy. I have no problem grilling and throwing it on toast and I love to do a riced cauliflower with veggies. It’s almost like scrambled eggs. Of course it is to your taste. The funny thing is I always hated vegetables even potatoes. As a child, I would flatten it out on my dish so it was almost see-through so that my mom thought I ate them. Of course she knew better but that’s how bad I was. Now I could sit down with a dish of roasted veggies and be a happy camper. I I don’t know if it is a medication‘s age or what the changes our taste buds. my palate can pick up just about anything and what I find. I really love now is giving the real flavor and sweetness of the vegetables. If you can grow your own even better.
No one should dictate to anyone else what to eat. I have been very surprised that my doctor has not told me to do a heart healthy diet. That is what the hospital fed me but honestly it did not bother me because it is very much how I eat. I stop using salt a very long time ago because of kidney issues. I am not a gravy or sauce lover, and tend to eat very simple. I am convinced that processed food has something in it to make us crave it. The same with bread. Once you keep away from it, you will lose the taste and when you try to eat it again hopefully you will be like me and not find it. Pleasurable like it was. Growing up Italian with everything home baked and delicious. It was very hard to make those changes but once I did, I could feel the difference in my body. Thankfully the meals were usually meat and vegetable not pasta I am trying to do the whole thing of eat to live not live to eat lol
I can't be the only one who absolutely could not live on a plant based diet, I have an IBD so most healthy things to eat are just not possible, fibre, fruit and veg being the biggest no no 😕
There are very many studies which show that a more plant baased diet is beneficial where reducing AF burden. I'm not a zealot or vegan terrorist but do think less meat is a good idea.
Just consider Man as an animal in primitive times and what "he" ate. As as hunter gatherer "he" would have lived off the land. berries, plants fruits etc and maybe once a week "he" would kill a monkey or small animal to share around the tribe. Instinctively that way the necessary nutrients were available. Once farming was discovered communities became possible and when that happened animals started to be domesticated and available for food. I can't quite understand how or when somebody though " if we stick this dog./cat/fish/ lizard whatever on the fire it will taste better" but I bet it was accidental.
The problem is that large scale meat production not only produces a highly unbalanced diet, it also contributes to the ultimate destruction of civilisation through massive CO2 imissions according to some sources. I read recently that poultry alone accounts for about 20% of man made CO2.
Bottom line is we all have choices so an occasional full English for me, maybe once a month when I catch that monkey. (or breakfast at Silvertone) Now its time for a slice of toast and peanut butter.
Why no pasta bread? Just curious.
No one on this earth can digest gluten,,,, the immune system attacks it till it is out of the body,, can you imagine the pressure this puts the system under.
Nest on the list for the same immuno responce is dairy!
This sounds interesting. Do you have a link / reference to a study?
Just Google Gluten Immune Response.
It's a well lknown fact,, to be honest I imagined the world and his wife has been aware of this for years.
Well I imagine many if not most of us know about Coeliac disease and the probability of some sort of non-coeliac gluten sensitivity (NCGS) underlying a range of conditions including IBS and FMS (fibromyalgia syndrome).
I can find no evidence to support your view that “No one on this earth can digest gluten”, but maybe you are right.🙂
The view dose not auctualy belong to me,, from what I can remember there are somewhere in the region of 30 different peptide chains in gluten,, none that are digestable,, the figures I have in mind is 28 or 33 but I can't remember.
If you care to mix a bag of flour with a bit of water to a stiff dough,, kneed it for a while then start needing it under running water,, it will eventulay go clear,, the clear substance is pure gluten,, it's auctualy reminicant of a very tough clear sillicon.
I tend to agree with Oyster, although I & my family are gluten intolerant.
I think studies I read recently suggested that about one third of the population probably had some sort of intolerance severity of which was varied from causing a serieus alergic and Life threatening reaction to celiac to intolerance.
I agree re dairy.
If that were the case then the advent of farming and the switch over from a hunter gatherer diet to a grain based one would have meant the human race would not have multiplied as it has. It is not any sort of fact let alone a well known one. There are gluten intolerant people but to say that everyone is is silly.
Obviously you know best!.
I bow to your superior knowledge,, do allow me appologise for offending your sensibilities.
You haven't offended my sensibilities. I just think that such a sweeping generalisation has no evidence behind it. Far too many people these days are taking up fad diets because of stuff they read on the internet - most of which has no real hard evidence to back it up. It is true that modern wheat is not the same as what our ancestors ate but to go from there to all humans cannot digest gluten is a huge leap.
To "Think" is to assume!
Never heard the world and his wife 😊
Causes inflammation = leaky gut=autoimmune disease & AF.
Not to say no gluten ever, I cut completely when my CPR bloods are elevated along with ALL sugars, including most fruits and all rice, pasta, biscuits etc. When I am well I have an occasional treat which does no harm. It’s eating over processed gluten every day which is toxic. Studies too numerous to mention demonstrate this.
The other biggyy for me is Milk - any type. I take cheese, butter & cream but almost no milk ever. About one third of people are unable to digest milk & I certainly can’t on a daily basis. Unfortunately in the 1950’s it was thought to be good for you & I was fed a lot of milk. Thankfully by my teens my body recognised this & I was able to have more of a say of what I ate.
Interestingly my sister was affected a LOT more than I & couldn’t even have formulae milk. She had to use her epi pen a few weeks ago because the person next to her ate an ice cream! It’s THAT serious for her.
I stopped drinking milk in my twenties. Before then I had no problems with it unless it was boiled -milk puddings made me sick. I still eat cheese and yoghurt ,butter and cream with no problems. But not milk.
I cannot tolerate starches, pasta bread, but very occasionally I have resistant starches, look it up, once cooked cold starches bypass big bowel and absorb in small bowel better for you,
I have read both "Forks Over Knives", and Dean Ornish's latest book "Undo It". Both strongly advocate whole food, plant based, no oil diets. I can't get quite to their level of commitment yet, but I am trying. I think their science is right on target, and, bottom line, it can't hurt you to eat more a more whole food, plant based diet.
Thanks. I will look up the book. It is hard to make such a draconian change when you have done something your whole life and is part of your family traditions. I’m all in mentally for the most part. Good luck to you as well😊
Try reading some of the critiques of "Forks over Knives". You might change your mind.
G'day horse,
Well now here is my take !
Diagnosed with AF in Jan 2010. By Sept 2011 I had started a "diet" because in the time in between I had identified the onset of AF with food I'd eaten.
Various symptoms led my then GP to have me tested for Coeliac Disease and IBS, tests came back clear but GP still felt I could be marginally IBS.
I then consulted a Nutritionist who did some tests, put me on a course of Probiotics and recommended a gluten free and wheat free diet. Taught me how to maintain a food diary. I have added to the diet over time, but still and all, I get caught out every once in a while.
End result is that I have only had one AF event since April 2015 and that was lying on my left side asleep.
I have had some "eruptions" in the last 6 to 8 weeks, the latest being last weekend. I have been able to identify foods that caused this .... mercifully none of these events put me into AF but the last weekend event saw my heart rate bounce around like a ping pong ball, down as low as 46 and up as high as 113 and shedloads of values in between. And the banging in my chest was bloody awesome !
I believe it is all a very individual thing and for me it is all about balancing food intake, not about this diet or such and such a diet or whatever. Also about identifying additives and preservatives ....... the hidden crap in food. And that is quite a tricky little number to master.
John
John that’s amazing that you have been able to pretty much correct it with your diet. That’s what I’m thinking I think a lot of this is related to diet but unfortunately once your heart goes there sometimes it always wants to go there. I did an ablation last Wednesday because I just couldn’t seem to get it under control no matter what I did without major cardiac meds. I’m off everything now except a blood thinner for six months. It is all individualized For sure. I would take fish oil tabs and it would put me in a fib. Even though fish oil is supposed to be good for your heart it would set me off including flax. I’m happy you found a good path to keep it at bay😊
There is some research that shows that people who eat a lot of oily fish have higher rates of afib.
Hiya Horse,
I was most fortunate in that my AF was identified and treatment started in about 9 hours from onset .... from what I have read on here that quickness of action by the A & E team concerned has been significant in not letting AF get a hold in the very first place. When I think about all the posts on here gee, some poor unfortunates don't even have a firm diagnosis and treatment started in 9 weeks.
John
Yes I agree. I have felt. Dry badly that these fine people have had to wait long times for proper diagnosis and care. I think everyone here has so much to contribute and their care for one another is so heartwarming to me.
Interesting thread, I had to read up on these different diets. My understanding is that a strict plant based diet (also known as as a vegan diet presumably) is not inevitably a healthy diet. For example my eldest is a strict vegan and very overweight. I think he enjoys chips and beer rather too much!
It would be interesting to know more about the evidence that a vegan diet has any impact on the AF burden of the majority of people with AF.
Chips and beer are not on the vegan menu!😊 very interesting thread.
"Vegan" doesn't necessarily mean healthy, for example, the chips and beer. But whole food ( minimally processed) plant based eating is healthy. It stresses no, or minimally, processed foods, high intake of fruits and vegetables, no, or very little oil, and no animal products. Protein from plant based sources like beans and some grains is adequate. I don't know if it has been shown to reduce or prevent AFib specifically, but it has been shown to reduce the risk of heart disease, and diabetes, and had been shown to improve disease symptoms, and even reverse disease in many cases. Three reference books I have read are The China Study, Forks Over Knives, and Undo It. I only wish I had the will power to follow the guidelines all the time! Always working on it.
From the PETA website, for vegan beer drinkers
peta.org/about-peta/faq/whi...
Pretty sure chips cooked in vegetable oil are vegan!🙂
Ok! I stand corrected 😊
I haven’t heard any animals bing slaughtered for making ale , could be wrong
It's difficult when you love food, i eat a lot of good food and rubish food but not over weight had 3 ablations last one 4 months ago in NSR at moment but get plenty of ectopics,
i try to eat healthy but when the grankids are round all the time there's all ways choc and biscuits about, and its farthers day so got a lot of chocolate to eat.
i work for 3 to 4 different customers each day and they nearly all make me a tea and a few biscuits, and i never say no.
my wife lives on coffee with sugar biscuits, white bread, ready meals chips, and is in good health
it’s so crazy. Your wife eating the way she does and no issues. We look at it and have problems. It really is hard to say no sometimes but I guess we need to because obviously our issues are very very real. Well at least the tea is very good for you! I know though tht eating poorly can catch up with a person. And then again not. My grandmother lived to 96 had all her own teeth and did not eat necessarily healthy. She didn’t have dementia at all! She just went to sleep one night and was gone by morning. We all know someone like that but...Etheral said enjoy life! I think there is a happy middle. Hope you are in NSR forever!😊
I had a friend who used to see people in Poor countries die from starvation as they tried to make their way to the American Peace Supply Truck. They were too weak to make it.
With politics, floods and extreme weather soon affecting food supplies:
“Eat while you can.”
Plant based diet is what I follow – I also take and a very curb called Arjuna And take 200 mils of redox signalling molecules per day since doing this I have had no issues – happy
I wish you well on your journey
I have enjoyed this discussion. My cardiologist has never recommended anything other than dont run a marathon. Excercise is key I believe improving the heart as it is a muscle. No good in my opinion just changing ones diet without losing weight if necessary. Gave up alcohol totally too. Didnt see the point of drinking alcoholic drinks and the potential of kicking off my af whilst meds were in place to control the erratic electrical problems. So for me weight loss 2 stone and I was not over weight but felt I could do better. Eating chicken and fish and limiting red meat and being more mindful has helped. Suffering with IBS led me through the hospital to the Fodmap diet. Now totally gluten free.....its been a total revelation. Weight just dropped off. Reflux improved. As the heart sits on top more or less to the stonach hence the word "heart burn" its made a difference. My digestive system cannot take pulses legumes or nuts and lots of acidic fruits. Also some veg onions or too many leafy greens. The fodmap diet helps you work out what your gut can take. I am not able to sustain just plant base. I am convinced heart and stomach are connected but I havent had an ablation and dont intend too. I will carry on with meds which need tweaking from time to time. Good luck and kind regards.
As we age we loose hydrochloride acid. That accounts for many people not being able to eat many food due to the inability to breakdown foods. Sometimes a good daily dose of enzymes with every meal fixes this issue. I’ve seen this in many family members. It sounds like you have your health managed and that’s wonderful!
Any one had any experiance with a ketogenic based diet?
I’ve been low carb for 7 years. Initially Atkins then Mark Sisson’s “Primal” diet. Never managed to achieve ketosis but lost 3 stone without much effort, and find it easy to maintain a steady weight on a modified version.
The main problem is finding verifiable sources of grass fed organic red meat in our area.
Good for you oyster. I'm following a ketogenic approach and have been for years. Would not claim to have been perfect though. Recent AFib incident got me hospitalized and I read with interest that alcohol may play a part. I was on holiday at the time and had drunk a few beers 2 or 3 bottles of lager over 3 days having not drunk any alcohol for months before hand. Ummm? In an experiment of n=1 eating a ketogenic diet has led to weight loss, a very good blood profile and combined with a progressive fitness regime led me to a good place, my cardiologist is fine with me coninuing to exercise dispite a mitral valve issue and the arrival of AFib.
Hi there. I have been vegetarian for 40 years, and started having Fast AF episodes 18 months ago, 30 episodes since then. I do eat eggs and dairy. I stopped any caffeine and alcohol immediately, no idea if that has made any difference, I am now removing gluten from my diet (I ate a lot) which I think is making a difference to how stable my heart feels, no ectopics or 'wobbles' and have not had an episode since, but its only 3.5 weeks so far.... There are many other potential triggers as discussed on here but also lesser known ones such as the amount of Tyramine in different foods. I only get episodes lying down (Vagal AF), so am focusing on what might be causing inflammation in that Vagal nerve area, gluten is the most obvious one. Perhaps don't change too many things at once, maybe just remove processed foods esp meats first, and see how you get on?
I have tried to stick to unprocessed food as much as possible which I think helps AF alot, hard work when we are surrounded by big business who lets face it are only interested in making money by selling us the cheapest rubbish they can get away with !
My best advice is to use PubMed to research scientific articles and draw your own conclusions.
Here is one article about BMI and A-fib.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/311...
To read the whole article (not always necessary) another HealthUnlocked member gave me this tip: put the DOI number into:
In this instance you can see the DOI number, it is 10.1093/eurheartj/ehz388
-----------------------------
My own paranoia with A-fib is that alcohol caused mine, as a result I have given up drinking to avoid my A-fib returning following a successful cardioversion.
Whilst good eating can significantly help some, it really does depend on the cause of the arrhythmia. The one significant benefit I have noticed beyond question is eating times, to condition your body to what it should be doing with taking in nutrient from food it is best to fast for at least 12 hours and no more than 15 hours in every 24 hour period. For example having dinner at 1800 then nothing (except water) until after 0800 (not later than 1030) really does help most people with arrhythmia. As a secondary benefit it accelerates weight loss or weight gain until you reach your natural optimum weight. Drinking water very first thing in the morning and when you wake in the night also helps. This needs to be done for at least 4 weeks before the benefits start being noticed. After 6 months your body begins to be conditioned to eating less (or more) to get to and maintain your natural weight. Some believe that this also prevents diabetes but I cannot comment as that has not effected me (yet).
The theory behind this is that our bodies should take it nutrient from our food after our bodies have processed it rather than than directly from the food itself before our bodies have processed it. not sure about the theory behind the water benefits, it just does work!
I have been on a vegetarian diet for a number of years and only get afib when I eat simple carbs (highly processed foods) took me years to work this out. The vegetarian diet also maintains good health for me. From afib everyday to 0 afib today.
Ok thats a testimonial. Thank you so much for your input. 😊
Totally agree with the doc. Had AF for years. Ablation six years ago and still all clear. The body quickly learns to conform to new eating regimes so don't get stuck on your habits and favourites. Breakfast? I went to fruit smoothies. Delicious, nutritious, quietens hunger pangs, energising, and it DOESN'T create blood sugar problems. Bananas, blueberries, strawberries, kiwi fruit, bit of honey, a little spirulina if you like. Be creative n enjoy. Dinner? Complex salads with finely chopped nuts, some chopped fruit, all the veges you like, good dressing. Actually I do put a good portion of feta into my salads. Steamed 'hard' veges. PLUS I love brown rice. Glass of red wine... Within a few days you'll feel the difference in no small part because your gut will be clean, your bowel transit time will be down to less than 24 hours... Oh yeah and have good spoonful of mountain honey before bed. Guaranteed you'll sleep like a babe.
Enjoy!
There is plenty of scientific evidence that a plant-based diet is healthy and good for the heart. However, I know of no scientific evidence which supports the view that one should not eat something unless it comes from the ground or a tree. It would make sense for you to bias your diet strongly in favour of plant-based food, avoid too much red meat etc. and keep to a good weight, get plenty of exercise etc..
Hi Horse,
My only comment is that we do need some fats to function so as long as you can include these you should be fine, avocados are great. Take care Ross
Yes to be sure. Nuts and avocado are good sources. I think COD for me is a good source as well. I plan on eating that 2 times per week. The rest plant based.
Sorry but just because he has eaten that way for 25 years does not mean he should push his vegan beliefs on his patients. Because that is all they are -beliefs- and you would probably not get such a response from a non vegan. I would ask him for links to studies that show that eating nothing but fruit and veg aids afib - proper RCT trials not epidemiological surveys which are highly flawed. Apart from anything else such a diet would leave you with nutritional deficiencies such as iron , vitamin d and vit B 12 and umpteen essentoal fatty acids. I would change my doctor . Apart from anything else human beings are omnivores - as indeed are some other apes. We have the teeth and digestive tracts of omnivores. If you look at purely vegetarian societies like the Hindus of southern India you will find they have high rates of both diabetes and heart disease.
And I know a guy who smoked cigarettes every day and lived to be 100
Interesting. Yes I know what you are saying rings true with me. The best I ever was and lost 25 pounds in 6 weeks was on the Atkins diet. I told him that and I thought he would pass out! Seriously. He said you can only get blockage from animal fat. I believe that is what he said. I don’t want to change doctors as he is very good and competent which is important. I had another cardiologist for 2 years that put me at high risk never suggesting an EP and I could have had a serious outcome. I had afib so badly 200 plus hr and never went to the hospital. He would tell me to take my beta and another BP med. I finally woke up and went to this EP who was highly recommended. On anticoagulant and flecainide immediately. I plan on addressing the situation with the former cardio guy. He put me at risk and would still be doing so if I hadn’t had a light bulb turned on! I have always believed we are omnivore. But I do know that meat renders us very acidic. Cancer grows in acidic environments as well as higher Rick for colon cancer. There are reliable double blind studies to prove that. Also people with gout have a terrible time with meat. So it’s really a personal choice at the end of the day.
I'm afraid that the theory that eating animal fat blocks up the arteries is becoming more and more discredited. This guy is clinging onto myths and I suspect it is for ideological reasons. The worst things for gout exacerbation are turkey and prawns . I do not see why you should not have a diet that includes reasonable amounts of fish and meat providing the meat is properly raised ie grass fed or free range poultry. The problem with most of the nutritional studies is that they do not compare say plant based diets with diets where only real properly raised animal protein is consumed but with the Standard American diet which includes processed meats and lots of junk. I would look into the work of French cardiologist Michel de Lorgeril who did the Lyon study on the Mediterranean diet. I believe his books have been translated into English. I live in a part of France where there are good longevity figures. The people round here eat loads of meat - we have our own breed of cows and you see them in all the fields including the one at the bottom of our garden. They fry their potatoes in duck fat! I know what you mean about the Atkin's diet. I lost nearly 2 stone on it when I was a teenager. Think about the Plains Native Americans . They hunted buffalo for preference in autumn when the buffalo had built up the fat deposits they needed to get them through the Plains winter and one of the most prized parts was the raw liver! There are no primitive societies that lived only on fruit and veg. I suspect your EP is a vegan for ideological or religious reasons ( is he a Seventh Day Adventist by any chance?) and I do not see why you should be obliged to follow his dietary recommendations if you feel they are not right for you.
Well that was very well stated and I appreciate your response. The best I ever was when is the when I was on the Atkins diet. My blood sugar was 95 each day and night never up never down. I had tons of energy I felt great and I kept it off for I think about a year and a half. When I resumed to my regular eating is when I gained it back. Yes my doctor is a religious Jew Orthodox. I do have a friend who is Seventh-day Adventist and he tries to eat plant-based and he has terrible gout. I don’t fault my doctor at all I appreciate that he is trying to help me and that he is turning attention to diet. I recognize that I don’t have to do what he says but I do appreciate his care and concern. I know what you’re saying about tribal people and it makes a lot of sense. I am curious about the cow in France and the people that have longevity in your area. Would you mind shedding a little more light on that? This topic is obviously very near and dear to peoples hearts. You can tell by the response of so many people. We are told don’t do this and don’t do that eat this and eat that but I think as many have said balance is everything. I do know that I need to find what’s best for me I have been trying to eat plant-based for the past few days and it’s very difficult. I feel like I’m missing something and my body is needing something. My mother was very anemic and her family had pernicious anemia. The way they handled it is they cook their meat rare and drink the blood from the meat! That’s not what I plan on doing but that’s how they handled it!😊
I live in the Limousin and the breed is called Limousin. They are mid brown cows. We border on Périgord where there are lots of ducks and geese raised. I don't think the Limousin cow is responsible for the longevity though .You may have heard of "the French paradox" . This was the name given by dishonest "scientists " like Axel Keynes who foisted this "fat and cholesterol give you heart disease " rubbish on the medical establishment. When looking at populations for correlations between eating fatty food and heart disease they only chose the countries that fit their hypothesis. France had one of the highest consumptions of meat and dairy but one of the lowest rates of heart disease. So they called it a paradox rather than question their hypothesis.
I agree entirely about balance. And that we should listen to our bodies. If you feel you are missing something you might want to abandon this diet . I would certainly ask to be linked to studies that say you should only eat fruit and veg. Then I would look up the critiques of these studies and make up my own mind. I would also try and find out who was behind the studies and the critiques - do they have vested interests? Do they get money from cereal growers or the meat producers? Are the SDAs behind them? It is surprising how much influence the SDAs have had on tge American Dietetic Association. Their objection to animal products us not actually on health grounds - though that is what they push for respectability. It is on moral grounds- flesh arouses the libido. Widespread heart disease is a fairly recent phenomenon. Eating animal produce is not.
Totally agree!
Seems people are mixing up SCIENCE with Religion and Vegetarianism and Health Conspiracy Theories etc etc etc . For instance, would an orthodox Jewish or Muslim doctor advise you to eat pork ? Science says Humans are omnivores and have evolved (not been created) to eat a wide variety of food. Pigs/Cows/Shellfish ..all of it... Ideas of not killing fluffy animals with big brown eyes are fine, and I dont like to see bow hunting of deer on the telly while I am at the pub, but let's not confuse these preferences with SCIENCE
He’s just that way I think. He lives that life style so he’s not asking anyone to do something he doesn’t practice. He’s a bit odd I admit but he does a lot of these procedures and is very well respected. I just know he is unwavering.
Well he is Orthodox Jew. I don’t know how much of that plays into it but it’s usually just pork and shell fish they are against.
Yes. Have read that. Anemia is a big culprit.
Sounds like you have a great cardiologist. We could do with more plant based cardios over here in the UK.
I'm assuming there must be plenty of evidence for a whole food plant based diet as being the best for heart health, as apparently at just one US hospital (Rush, Chicago) there are 8 plant based cardiologists.
rush.edu/health-wellness/di...
Thanks for the link. I didn’t know that!
I think you said that your EP wrote a book? I'd love to read it - could you let me know his name please?
Yes. His Name is Dr Uri Benzur. I have a copy. I would be glad to send it to you if you can’t find it. He hands them out in his office JP charge.
I have been in and out of AFIB for 25 + years. 1 Ablation and 8 cardioversions.
I eat a lot of red meat. I don't know if it makes a difference, but my EP, Dr, and cardiologist have never mentioned anything about meat causing AFIB.
This is a very interesting discussion with so many considered opinions and ideas. It’s not very often you get a physician who recommends a particular diet so strongly. I have no idea about it’s pros and cons. I do know that moderation in everything is a good principle to follow. If something affects you personally and causes AF then you adjust to prevent it. From reading posts on this forum there seems to be a myriad of opinions. Some of them I had never even heard of! As some posters have already said, find what works well for you and live that life. Just as medications affect us all differently, so does diet and lifestyle. Fresh cream will bring me out in a couple of spots after a day or two. So I avoid it, but it doesn’t stop me having the occasional cream tea. I think it’s great that we can read so many ideas on here and then decide what is good for us personally. I hope all goes well for you, and that your considered decisions on lifestyle work well in controlling your AF. 😃
Thank you!
Surprised there are no comments about sugar, fructose, modified starch. There is a fair amount of good quality research available that shows the role of sugar in causing all manner of heart disease, clogged up arteries and obesity.
The diabetes website shows the truly awful effects that this pernicious poison can inflict on people who are susceptible to it. Even milk contains a form of sugar (Lactose) that causes 1 in 6 people to react to it.
Removing sugar brings down weight, stops obesity and reduces blood pressure and improves your waist size, as well as stopping your children's teeth from rotting away and young, healthy, people's arteries from clogging up.
Removing it from your diet ? Turn detective and start carefully reading packets, Finding hidden sugar? Easy - it is not.
I've had aFib for years and now on Keto diet to reverse type 2 diabetes, which it's done. I eat meat, loads of green veg/salad, and my diet is high fat, moderate protein, low carb. Only way it's affected me that I can tell is that I'm MUCH leaner than I used to be, and lighter/fitter. I feel less stress on my body, including my heart as well I'd say, because of reduce weight and better weight to power ratio. Easy diet for me as I love the food I can eat and not that much I miss.
PS. If you're interested in low-carb high fat, there is a specific forum on HealthUnlocked healthunlocked.com/lchf-diet
You sound as though your diet is not all that bad anyway, I say keep away from processed foods I have really pulled away from meats even chicken. I don’t know why, but they actually make me feel a bit queasy even to look at them these days. My appetite has also changed, but for the better I think. If you like pasta, see if you can find one called Dreamfields. It is not plant-based, but it is only 4 g of digestible carbs. What I have also gotten to love is taking things like zucchini, etc. and using my spiralize or a little handheld one and making my own noodles. Also spaghetti squash is great. I’m not sure why but I seem to have a little interest in food , especially the past six months. Always fighting to lose weight. I am going to enjoy this. Some thing I found making it easier to eat plant based is to keep your recipes simple. I love to toss other vegetables, etc. into my vegetable noodles. Just use your imagination and spices are great also. I have a George Foreman grill and love to throw veggies on that such as egg plant and squash etc. sometimes I marinate and bread them sometimes I would just love them plain. I don’t know if it is the type of food but I do know that eating less is very important to me. If I over ate I would have a violent afib episode before I got to the car from the restaurant. For me, even a sip of wine will also trigger. Best of luck.
I'd say get a new doctor
The so called studies that linked AFIB to low carb diets is totally flawed. I'm not saying it isn't linked but the study is false. The Low carb group consists of 48% of their daily intake in Carbs. A real low carb diet is like 5-10%. These studies compare 3 groups of people on extremely High Carb diets
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