Last Thursday was a horrible day. I had a message left on my answerphone from my older sister, who has slight learning difficulties. She said, "Jean I have a pain in my chest and feel terrible", then she was in tears. I immediately called her back and asked which side the pain was, it was her left. Asked if her chest felt heavy or had like a squeezing and she said the latter My immediate thought was to dial 999 but I paused and then thought I'd dial the NHS 111 number for advice. I was told they would call my sister back which they did a little later, then she was told they'd get a doctor to call her ASAP. Well that wait was just over an hour. Then I was called back with advice to take her to A&E as that would get her there quicker than waiting for an ambulance. So I drove to her house and did as I was advised. We were both anxious and super stressed.
Shortly after we arrived, around midday, she was given an ECG and blood tests. The nurse asked if she had atrial fibrillation (AF) and my sister looked bewildered, I said no, but I had it.
When we actually got to see a doctor hours later we were told she had AF and her blood showed a higher than normal level of troponin. They would take the blood test again and see if it had dropped. If it had she could go home, if it hadn't she would be admitted to a ward. Around 4pm (four hours after arriving) we were taken to a different area to wait, here there was a nurse on permanent duty/watch and my sister had one of those chair bed seats. During this time her chest pains kept coming and going but weren't as bad as they'd been earlier. Then a porter turned up to take her for an x-ray, we were stunned because no-one had said she would be having one. As soon as my sister had gone I asked the nurse why she was having it and the answer was because she'd had chest pain.
When my sister arrived back, a lovely young doctor came to speak to us and explained the situation. He spoke clearly and slowly to my sister about how her heart was functioning in AF and that he'd put her on Edoxaban and Bisoprolol 1.25mg and said what those pills were for. Her chest x-ray was clear and she'd be referred to the care of AF nurses. He gave us so much time it was amazing - I'd give him a gold star for his kindness and clear in depth explanation.
We arrived home sometime between 6.30pm and 7pm. We were both exhausted with the stress of it. Next day we both had to relax as were wiped out and emotionally exhausted.
This morning I asked her if the pills were helping and did she feel better, the answer was a positive yes. Hooray!
Now I'm asking myself did I do the right thing by not immediately dialling 999 for an ambulance. I really don't think I did, lets face it we all know what we must do if someone is getting chest pain in their left side and feeling ill, that's call for an ambulance. It's what I advise people to do on this forum all the time. What is it that stops us from doing the right thing?
Jean
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We always can second guess ourselves, but it seems to me that you were of great help and it your sister benefited greatly and you had a great outcome. Focus on that because and maybe next time you would do things differently. All the best!
Thank you for your reply.I certainly would do things differently. She could have died because of my hesitation and not dialling 999 for an ambulance. My sister was so lucky for it to be AF. I have a very good friend who gets chest pain with her AF and wonder how many people suffer that way.
Yes, I think the ambulance service would rate chest pain and feeling ill as urgent. The 111 service rang my sister (who has learning difficulties) after I had spoken to them. Of course she only gave them half a story not understanding how significant her heart feeling squeezed was. Anyway a big sigh of relief now and hope she will continue to feel more lively as has been very tired lately.
Chest pain and not being able to breathe properly, sweating and feeling sick, pain in your left arm , neck or jaw indicates that person has a heart attack! That is either Category 1 or 2 for the Ambulance Service and will take priority! That is what happened to me in February 2019 ! Arriving at James Cook University Hospital I was straight admitted into the Cath Lab and received two stents to open my blocked artery in my heart! 3 weeks later they did the other one with one stent! So glad I called the Ambulance 999 ! I have a 13 people big family! My 4 children were absolutely amazing to me and I thank God I had a second chance to life 🙏❤️
As you well know, Jean, Afib is one thing, but severe pain that doesn't go away with exercise or relief from trapped gas is a signal to be seen.
I had debilitating pain one time and turned the ambulance away after I felt better before they arrived, but I had to call them back when it returned. I either had a "slight"? heart attack or spasm in a vessel. Nitro relieved it, and I have not needed it over the past year. You were reacting the way we Afibbers learn to do - not rushing to the hospital every time we have an uncomfortable episode. I was practically mocked by doctors for going to the hospital the first few times I had it. It would have been nice if someone had sat down with me the first time and explained the Afib experience and reassured me that a wildly erratic heart was not going to cause a heart attack.
You are better safe to call the emergency people needlessly than not call when it is needed. Best wishes to you and your sister!
I'm sorry to hear that you had that awful pain. I would have found that really scary. I think a heart attack is one thing we all dread and as we grow older believe the chance comes nearer. Did you ever have an angiogram?
I can remember going to A&E many years ago after my heart had been racing all day and listening to a young lad, probably in his late teens or early twenties in the next cubicle telling the doctor how his heart had raced for what was about 3 mins. His parents were there too voicing their concerns.
I was quite amazed at the attention he was getting.
AF is so common in us as we grow older. I just wish I'd known years ago that it wasn't going to kill me - all that worry when attacks happened at night and wondering if I'd still be alive by morning but I'm still here!
Don't beat yourself up - hindsight is a wonderful thing! I honestly think that the way things are at the moment with the NHS and the emergency service, it has totally changed the way we think and react. Had you been certain that an ambulance would have turned up quickly I guess you would have phoned, but because there is no certainty these days I think we try to think around things - and probably over think them. I know that currently if I have a health concern I tend not to even think about making a doctor's appointment because I will have to wait at least 3 weeks and so that changes my 'normal' reaction. As with everything, you did what you thought was the right thing at that time - and your sister is OK that's the main thing, and, you are human!!! (and a good one at that). Tricia x
Bless you Trish, thank you for your response. I know what you mean about making an appointment to see a GP. A friend who works as a nurse at my surgery was telling me how underfunded they are, told me about 4 months ago that they were still receiving the same funding as 5 years ago, yet costs had all gone up.
Are you keeping well now? I remember a little while ago you had one thing after another.
Thank you for your response. Yes, she told me this morning that she was feeling better. I thought that was quite quick after just a few days on her beta blockers.
Sounds like a nightmare of a day. I am sure you did the right thing and you were there for your sister. Like previous replies, I think it’s so much more difficult to know what’s the right thing to do with the emergency services the way they are, but there is no point look back in hindsight.
Your sister is ok, you hade good care while in hospital and I am sure will be able to continue to support your sister from now on with you own experience of Afib.
Thank you for your reply. The trouble with my sister is she never really understands what she's being told. I decided the other day that she has a kind of word blindness, looked it up and there is such a thing. I guess she could understand a simple sentence, but no more. I used to work in the offices of a very large high tech company and I remember going to site meetings which everyone had to attend and hardly understand a word that was being said and it was so boring!! So think I can understand how she feels.
Sounds like you did what felt right at the time and that's what counts.If 111 had been concerned they would have organised an ambulance as fast as they could. If they felt the response time was slow that day, then encouraging you to take her was the best they could offer. When my husband had an 'absence" event, still no clear explanation as cardio says not heart, neuro says prob heart(!).The 111 doc phoned back 15 hours later, by which time I had taken him to drop in and seen excellent paramedic.
Sounds like however stressed you felt you gave your sister the support she needed.
The NHS111 people told me if she got worse while we were driving to the hospital I was to pull over, park and dial 999.
I understand your husbands absence event as I had two in a week myself last year, was convinced I'd had TIA's. Had loads of tests and nothing was found. It must be comforting for him to know that you are a retired nurse. I'd like you living next door to me.. I do a voluntary job on a Sunday afternoon with a retired nurse but she was a midwife. I still ask her opinion on ailments though. Hope your husband is ok now.
Thank you Jean. He was told not to drive and because of 7 month wait to see neurologist and then months harassing DVLA, he didn't drive for nearly a year. Now waiting to see heart surgeon as ageing stents ( 2005) and mod to severe valvular disease. This has taken a year since referral too!! Hey ho, we are both fine. xx
I think because we're constantly being told of A&E problems, queuing ambulances etc we're almost frightened to pick up the phone. However it all turned out well in the end but how stressful for you.
I had no hesitation dialling 999 for husband very recently. He had fallen (Parkinson's) and I found him unable to get up with a great deal of blood over him. He's on Rivaroxaban and we all know that a little bit of blood goes a long way but I wasn't taking any chances. Paramedics and first responder came out very quickly.
That must have been a shock for you finding your husband like that. Yes, that would certainly warrant a 999 call. I think that the paramedics do come quickly when it's an obvious emergency. My sister had told the 111 telephone responder half a story.
I think because we always think things are not as bad as they might appear. There is always that wishfull thinking going on as well, sadly , as the knowledge that in most case A and E will be a nightmare of waiting, usually with lots of sick people coughing over us or drunks being sick! (maybe not before lunch).
It is very easy for us sitting at our computers to tell people to call 999 but the reality is never that easy. Don't beat yourslef up Jean, we are all human and 111 is the " softer" option.
Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head with what you're saying about the wishful way we think etc. Also it is easy to tell other people what they should do re calling 999. Sometimes I think why on earth haven't they done that after lots of forum members have said that's what they should do.
There was someone coughing a few rows behind us in A&E and it was turning me into a horrible person. I wanted to move seats but there was nowhere else for us both to go! I'm ashamed to say that the woman coughing probably saw me turn around and glare at her. My goodness her cough sounded like she had pneumonia.
If you yourself did not have AF, therefore you were aware your sister may have been having AF rather than a heart attack, you would probably have decided to call 999 immediately. If your sister's symptoms had been more severe, you would have ratcheted up the urgency. In no way did you fail to take it seriously or fail to help her.
There seems to be a lot of Covid going round again and nary a mask in sight, even on people who are coughing. You were under stress and this was an added factor. Wanting to move seats, and glaring because you couldn't, doesn't make you horrible. I would have had the same reaction.
Your sister is so lucky to have you. I have an acquaintance several villages distant who has some learning disabilities (I am familiar with 'only telling half the story') and no family at all. I try to do what I can, but she really needs a regular carer. She could afford to pay for this but does not see the need when she can ask me to do it for nothing. I got her through a downsizing house move two years ago, but since I've been in persistent AF for the last year, I have had to be more ruthless about saying no. Whenever I tell her I can't see her on a particular day because I'm symptomatic and reluctant to drive, she lectures me about 'I told you this would happen. You push yourself too hard. You need to slow down'. Arrghhhhh!
I've now decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
I'm friendly with a couple, him 86, her 83 and they are the liveliest couple I have ever known, didn't have any children so had a nice boat, the caravan and a good carefree life travelling. He came to put some solar lights up for me a few months ago and I felt so guilty an 86 year old up a ladder doing that! He also changed door handles for me, puts new batteries in my watch and pumps up my car tyres. In return I do all I can for them, when covid was rife I did their shopping and I often get odd bits of shopping for them now. If I go up to see them I ask if there's anything they need. In winter we play Rummikub and have a laugh, don't know if you've heard of that game.
I had covid for the second time a few months ago but only had symptoms for 5 days Mon-Fri.
I've now decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
We live and learn don't we and the replies to my post have been so lovely. They've really made me think and understand the situation with my sister.
You did exactly the right thing Jean , I hope you did not have that far a drive!! Sometimes it takes ages to get through to 111 , to actually speak to someone.
When they come First Response are superb.
Your time in A and E was not that long ( for these days) going to the “next stage « clinic is normal as is having a chest xray . It all takes time , and waiting for the second tropanin test . Your sister must have been so reasdured that you were with her!
She was seen and treated and, you didn’t go into mega AF in sympathy !!!! Well done!
Yes, I too have found First Responders excellent. I've often thought that their care is sometimes better than what we get in hospital with doctors. There they are, two people who are totally focussed on you and you alone. Give you a dose of morphine if in pain and air if difficulty breathing! They are to be treasured.
Yes, I think that my sister was glad that I was there. She never says thank you, no matter what you've done for her and I've been pulling her up on it lately. She's only just moved 200 miles a few months ago to be nearer me and my other sister. She gave me such a lovely heartfelt thank you and I appreciated that so much.
The drive to hospital was only about 8 miles, so there was no problem with that.
Is 999 the ambulance? There will be situations where you know you need an ambulance and situations where you are not sure. In the latter case you call your doctor or 111 which you did. It sounded like the right call to me.
Yes, 999 is what we call in the UK when we need an ambulance and paramedics. I have to say they are all really good at their job, so kind and attentive. With hindsight now it was the right thing to do but I would never recommend anyone else doing that when someone has chest pain and feels ill. My sister, who is so vulnerable, crying broke my heart.
We all make choices based on the situation at hand at any one time. You made a choice you felt right. Your sister is safe and that’s all that matters now. She is very fortunate to have such a caring sister close by and to have been treated well at the hospital. All is well. Don’t look back on what might have been, but take comfort in what is. Be kind to yourself after what has been a tough couple of days.
Myself and my younger sister care about our older one. She is unable to make important decisions herself, her husband did everything that was needed. He died about 7 years ago and then she had a lady from Age Concern who would visit once a week and always took her to any appointments. So she's never had to think about anything and she found it hard on her own. That was when earlier this year after a fall down her stairs and breaking ribs, we decided to move her closer to where we live instead of being 200 miles away. Now she's just a 10 minute drive away or 20 minutes on the bus. To be honest I've never seen her so happy as she is now. My daughter and her husband help her too.
Speaking an only child, I can only say she’s blessed to have you. Hope the heart stabilises & she continues to be happy. Enjoy a restful Bank Holiday Jean.
Oh Jean, what a dilemma for you. What happened, happened and you can’t change that now. You did your best for your sister and was there for her in her hour of need. I think we all do things we regret, or think we should have acted differently, but like all things we live and learn. Who knows? You could have waited much longer if you had dialled 999. You were blessed with a good doctor, so in the right place at the right time. Sorry for your sister’s diagnosis of AF., but pleased it wasn’t a heart attack when things could have been a lot worse. At the end of all this Jean, she is so lucky to have you. Xxx
You know in the back of my mind there's a little voice asking if it could have been a heart attack and if she'd had AF undiagnosed for years. I'll be on the lookout for any signs from now on. She's always been a person with low energy levels. I'm also going to put a post on the forum asking how common chest pain is with AF. I've certainly never had any with mine and at times my AF was bad enough to have me admitted to a hospital cardiac ward many times.
I have never had chest pains either Jean, but some awful attacks of AF and had to go to hospital. I understand how you are thinking as her troponin blood was high, which is an indicator of heart attack, but l think it has to be tested high twice to confirm and your sister’s was ok second time. Also nothing on the ECG. The pain is the worry, but could have been tension and anxiety. You will certainly be able to look after her with all your experience and she is really going to need you. I wish l had a sister close by and one like you. Christine.
Hope you both ok now . It must have been a shock for you . I had a sister with severe learning dissabilities . She lived with me . I always questioned myself over if i had done the right thing or made the right choice for her . You did what you thought was right at the time x helped your sister . Probably seen quicker than ringing 999. Take care both of you xxx
It is so difficult when you have to care for someone. When you look back you always see the things you “think” you should have done, but we do the best that we can, at that time, so if we give our best we can do no more. Everything to the best of our ability. I cared for my sick husband so l understand your thoughts. Xx
Ah so you know what it's like to live with someone more needy than my sister. That must have been hard for you. Yes, what I did is past now and I hope I'd do something different next time - if there ever is one.
It certainly was a shock and the day after I felt drained of energy.
You make at the time is what you think is right . Please dont keep going over it your sister is fine . It eats away at you if you keep going over it . Go forwards x im sure you will do the right thing for your sister . Sorry i pressed sent before i had finished texing you . Take care xxxx
My sister suffers from both angina and acid reflux, and their symptoms often overlap, making it hard for her to decide between staying home or going to the emergency room. Severe acid reflux can mimic angina pain. Sometimes, she gets relief from a "pink lady" (a stomach coating agent) and can go home, but other times, she needs more intensive emergency treatment for angina. She dreads the ER visit, fearing the discomfort and comments if it's just reflux. I understand her hesitation, even when I offer to take her.
Decisions made in the heat of the moment can be challenging. The most important thing to remember is that the goal is to provide care and support, which is exactly what you've done.
How difficult that must be for your sister not knowing what is causing her chest pain, angina or reflux. Please let her know that well chewed almonds can help with reflux but they really must be very well chewed almost to a liquid consistency and without any lumpy bits whatsoever. The relief once swallowed is almost instant and they're good for her too.
Yes, I had to make an instant decision regarding my sister's condition. To be honest I thought NHS111 would order an ambulance for her immediately.
Dear Jean, what a horrible thing to go through, and I’m so relieved it has a happy outcome.
Like others have said, I totally understand your reticence to call 999 for your sister. If nothing else, calling 999 and even going to A&E is far from an ‘easy’ option these days… and I’m sure there was part of you that wanted to protect your sister from the unnecessary stress and distress. Maybe especially so, given she has a level of learning difficulty? From personal similar experience, I’d say that wanting to be sure it was really necessary would have been a factor in making me hesitate on the 999 call. (Even though I know in my rational mind it ticks the boxes for 999.)
I feel that calling 111 as a first port of call is fully understandable. And 111 might well have advised A&E, or sent an ambulance directly to her themselves (I think in less pressured times they would have, even with your sister not mentioning the ‘squeezing’ feeling.) If you feel on reflection that you were off base with your instinctive decision, it’s worth remembering that they affirmed it, because they didn’t advise it when you rang, or when they rang her.
And I really think you did the best by her that you could - your advice and support and then your company at A&E were no doubt the things she needed and appreciated most. (Even if she doesn’t say thank you!) She is lucky to have you ❤️
Hope you can both have an easier and restorative week ahead. Jx
Yes, on reflection I think I did do the right thing as I truly thought the NHS111 would order an ambulance immediately. Sadly they spoke to my sister who didn't give her full symptoms. That's exactly why we family around her have to reply on her behalf. Luckily she has three different family members keeping an eye on her while she now lives close to us too.
It's amazing how everyone on this forum is so understanding but we all have difficult decisions to make at times.
In answer to the original question....what makes us hesitate to call an ambulance. I wholeheartedly agree with BobD about the wishful thinking and wanting to avoid the awful experience of A&E. I'd add to that a wish not to waste doctors' time. (I always seem to forget that we are paying them to take care of us) But I'd like to think in this case you had a kind of sixth sense about the right course of action. When you were with your sister you may have picked up signals that you didn't even consciously register. Like the fact she wasn't pallid or blue around the mouth for example. You went with your gut instinct and that turned out to be ok.
You could have waited a long time for an ambulance. So well done!
Yes on reflection now I think I did do the right thing, as I truly thought the NHS111 person would call an ambulance immediately. Unfortunately they spoke to my sister who gave them half a story.
I agree with you and Bob, your replies are spot on. We are so afraid of being an unnecessary nuisance and calling for an ambulance, especially when it turns out it wasn't really needed. Someone else whose situation was a heart attack may have suffered for the ambulance not going to them instead. That's the truth of it isn't it. Hmm I've certainly learnt a lot from the answers to this post.
First and foremost, well done, you took the right course of action based on what you saw and heard and your knowledge at the time.......we can all be wise after the event. I hope that by now your sister is feeling loads better and that the medication will keep her stable and she can move on with her life.
So, what puts us off calling for an ambulance straight away, I guess because we know the process that begins with that call, the time it takes for an ambulance to arrive, the fact that we also know the stress our NHS faces each and every day and the waiting we will have to go through to get seen, combine the two and its literally hours. It was tremendously comforting to hear of the treatment you did in fact receive and everyone would hope for a doctor like that. I believe you made the right decision, gave time to evaluate and then the appropriate course of action..........I, an only child, would love a sister like you xxx
Yes you too have hit the nail on the head as to why we are reluctant to dial 999. I think also people, especially as we grow older have an inbuilt reaction in our brain that tells us we must not be a nuisance. I wonder why that is? Is it because that's the way we are viewed by some younger people or our government?
When I was very young, probably in my late teens or early twenties I used to think that I didn't want to live past 40 - it looked to be so old. How ridiculous that sounds now as that age seems so young to us now.
My goodness the responses to my post have really opened my mind.
We feel a nuisance from the way in which we were raised, I in the main by my grandparents and you didn't make a fuss lol. Today is so different in many many ways, I do hear that men are now being asked when having an X-Ray if they could be pregnant!!!!! Oh how we have changed lol and not for the better either......
Oh Jean, what an awful time both you and your sister have had. So pleased all is sorted now and nothing too serious. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. You did what you thought was the right thing at the time but now the pressure is off the what ifs, should I have, did I do the right thing all surface. Please don’t beat yourself up about it. I bet you would still be questioning yourself if you had rung 999. Your sister trusts you and knew you were the right person to ask for help, which is what you did.
What a wonderful young doctor you had. I think I would want his number on speed dial! I know I would appreciate having things explained to me like that (and I class myself as a reasonably intelligent and educated woman - senior moments forgiven) rather than all rushed and using words 6 foot long that you need a Greek or Latin dictionary to understand.
I hope you are feeling better now Jean. You got your sister help and that was the important thing.
Hi Frances, thank you for your reply it made me smile.
Like you I would prefer people didn't talk to me using words I've never heard of and don't understand. Someone did it in a post on here the other day and I thought, never heard of that word, must look it up (I didn't). Like you I think I have a reasonable level of intelligence and I believe the word wasn't even a medical one.
I'm well into believing I did the right thing to dial the NHS111 no. now. I honestly thought they would immediately send an ambulance.
Morning Jean....first of all I'm glad your sister is ok. I think as someone else has already mentioned, we are more hesitant to do the 999 call because nowadays we just don't know how long it will take for an ambulance to arrive....plus I think many of us have the thought in an emergency that it isnt really happening...it's a kind of shock response. Try not to dwell on what might have happened...instead focus on the positive of what did happen....the lovely doctor you saw and how he treated your sister...and the fact that she had AF and nothing else that required a stay in hospital. Hope the meds have settled the AF down and that she is feeling better. Take care xx
You are so right I need to focus on the things that were positive. I've decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
My sister says the meds are actually making her feel better already. I'm going to visit her later this afternoon so will soon see how she is. Up to now she has always felt drained of energy and I wonder just how long she's actually had AF.
There you go then...your sister is already feeling better...so you did do a good job. I think we can all too often dwell on negatives. I'm a great believer in you can't change something once it's happened so you have to be positive about any good that came from it and learn if you feel you made a mistake. I don't think you made a mistake...you did what you thought was right at that time. Fingers crossed she continues to improve in her meds. I'm fine and thank you for asking. Take care xx
I did the same thing when MOH fell last September. Because I wasn't sure what was wrong I hesitated to call an ambulance at first. But when I did they said the wait was a long time and to call back, and the second time I rang with him writhing in agony on the floor, they said they were too busy. In th end my daughter and I had to manoeuvre him on an office chair into the car and take him to A&E ourselves. I think you did the right thing and took your sister to get help in time. Don't worry about it again, and well done!
Wow what you were reduced to doing sounds difficult, words fail, that poor man in pain. One night a friend of my sisters fell and his leg came out at the hip, he lay on the floor until morning when the ambulance finally arrived.
At one time in our area we would have responders (one person) who came on a motorbike to help and assess what was wrong. One came to me when my heart rate had been 160bpm all day but he apologised as he was called away to attend to a baby who needed urgent assistance. I understood and was happy for him to leave. The ambulance came shortly after and I was taken to hospital admitted to a ward and a nurse asked why I hadn't come in earlier.
I'm truly amazed at the kind words of comfort I've received on this forum.
I've now decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
Try not to be too hard on yourself. It’s often difficult to make a decision in a crisis situation when you are under considerable pressure. You will not be the first person to have hesitated to call an ambulance. For the future, you could put up a list of clear criteria for calling an ambulance near your phone. This could include symptoms like chest pain and the FAST criteria. Having this list visible could simplify decision-making and make it more automatic.
I've decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
I think you did the right thing but I understand how worried you must have been. I also understand you wondering about it the next day. Your sister is very lucky to have you keeping an eye on her. Well done, Jean!
Thank you for your kind words Camelia and yes the experience was certainly worrying.
I've decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
I'm truly amazed at all the kind responses I've received here. What very caring members you all are on this forum.
Glad to hear your sister is okay, and doing well on her meds. I think many of us were either born in, or of, the generation where one "didn't bother the doctor". Partly because they didn't have spare money to pay, partly as doctors were set on pedestals (mostly self-made), were austere, remote and condescending to greater or lesser degrees. I remember as a child being terrified of our GPs. And even today, some GPs cultivate that manner. To this day I find going to the GP a daunting prospect, even phoning for an appointment gives me stress, and even more so for a routine check with the nurses, who are particularly unwelcoming.
As for 999, my parents would have literally had to sever a limb before using. I'm not quite as bad, but certainly the current state of the service is in itself a barrier to the brain accepting it's necessity, or otherwise. I think that's another factor in our decision making process, and as AFibbers, we have a far greater experience to add to the agonising decision. Some people call 999 for a broken nail, I wish I had a tiny bit more of their attitude, and was a bit less of my generation/engrained upbringing. Your anguish now is the result of being a sensitive, thoughtful and caring person, don't beat yourself up for doing what felt right at the time.
Fortunately here in South Devon the surgery I belong to has excellent doctors (females are the best) and very caring nurses. The doctors all tap away on their computers as they are talking to you which is a little off putting.
We also have a male Nurse Practitioner, who is the most caring and charming person I've ever met. In fact I wrote a glowing letter to the Surgery Manager singing his praises. I had a splinter of glass in my finger and it had turned septic. He told me that during his time working in A&E he had taken a lot more glass out of people than my splinter. Without any fuss or pain he removed it and I was so grateful.
I've now decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
I think you did great Jean. You were there for your sister and got her looked after. A ambulance may not have been able to attend straight away anyway.? Looking back on things and thinking I could have done things differently I so easy to do after the event.?
I’m glad your sister is feeling better, take care.
I've decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance.
Sometimes when you're referred by 111 to a hospital in my area you bypass A&E and go straight to an urgent care unit. Unfortunately, the 111 doctor only spoke to my sister, not me and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
I've decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
You weighed things up and did your best in the circumstances so well done. I expect your sister is very pleased with you!
I would have been like you, wondering whether to phone 999 but in the back of my mind is always that the ambulance might well be slow arriving. I might more likely, depending on her condition, have taken her in my car to local A&E, which is quite close.
Last Friday, a 91-year-old friend was in similar circumstances, but with severe and new hip pain, so much less urgent. In the end, I phoned 111 and took him to our local walk-in centre where the service was beyond my expectations.
That is so good to hear that your elderly friend had such great service. It's always nice to be informed when a visit to an emergency service goes well.
I've decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
When you go to hospital in an ambulance here the paramedics do a handover to a nurse and you go to an A&E ward bed immediately. Also if 111 have called the ambulance you skip A&E and go straight to an urgent care unit.
Hi jeanjeannie50, I think you did exactly the right things here. I called 999 for an 82 year old who’d taken a fall (broken hip) and was in terrible pain. An ambulance 13 hours later!
Ooh that sounds so distressing for that poor lady, what a ridiculous length of time to wait. I don't think it's quite that bad here in Devon but have not tested it recently, so who knows!
I've decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
Hi Jean, yes, I too thought (or perhaps hoped!) that the very long wait times weren’t a reality, or maybe exception rather that the rule, and I naively wasn’t aware of the “process” when calling 999. It’s become clear that the operator you speak with on the call acts as a kind of triage and looks to prioritise your need for a speedy response against other callers. Sadly, broken hips, bones etc. appear to be low priority. I’ve had all this explained by a neighbour who works as such an operator. She now has suspicions that some callers who are more aware of the system are now tending to exaggerate symptoms to get an ambulance quicker! What a sad state of affairs! Let’s hope we none of us need to make the call too soon, all the very best!
Good morning Jeannie I am so glad your Sister is feeling better. I think the older we get the more we hesitate about 'bothering' our emergency services - I to, myself, have 'hovered' over my mobile thinking should I or shouldn't I and most times to be honest I don't. The last 3 weeks my AF has been on/off with chest pain/arm pain/short little coughs/nausea/headaches but I am very reluctant to call anyone in case I think I am wasting their time. I have been told I need a pacemaker. I hope you and your Sister keep well. Kind regards.
That's understandable that you hesitate to call for help. To be honest I think I'd rather die at home than go to hospital and wait to be judged by their staff. It's so off putting isn't it.
My lady GP twice begged me to go to hospital because of a high infection rate which showed in a blood tests, even offered to get me straight into a ward. I'd been treated badly when I'd gone there a few days earlier and was discharged with almost a flea in my ear. The nurse who wheeled me out to my daughter's car whispered to me , "No way should be you be discharged, you should contact PALS". So embarrassing, I would honestly have died rather than go back there and was poorly for several weeks and lost a stone in weight. I never knew what it was but my goodness I felt so ill.
That must be difficult when you have chest and arm pain. As you have nausea too I think I would definitely get some medical advice even if it's from your GP. Try to see a lady doctor they are far more caring. Saying that, we have a lovely male Nurse Practitioner at our surgery and I would trust his diagnosis 100%.
What a dreadful experience for you both. You did the right thing. I would always offer to drive someone to A&E these days as the wait for an ambulance can be so long and with it being a holiday weekend with extra traffic and events and possibly more accidents because of that the ambulances could take even more time to get out to you.
Well done. Hope you can have a nice relaxing bank holiday now. We were hoping for sunny spells but its a little overcast here and now actually looks very dark just as us and our neighbours have put washing out to dry - exciting bank holiday for us as usual, we just don't travel if we can help it on a bank holiday weekend.
I live in a holiday area too, it's a small coastal fishing town and at the moment its crowded with visitors who put a strain on our medical support system. Its been lovely and sunny today and my washing was dry in hours. When I was still working, nurses would come in and say how many wash loads they'd manage to do and dry that morning. I thought it was the most boring thing to tell anyone, now I quite like talking about it myself.
I've now decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
Thank you jeanjeannie50 for posting this. I think this is a lesson for us all, especially as those of us experienced over years of AF and exposure to the vagaries of the NHS are usually reluctant to cry wolf at a dog's snout.
Many years ago I was radio officer in merchant ships, and the system there had a break point - might life be at immediate risk? If not, than it is a 'safety' issue Pan Pan Pan (111); if it is then it is Mayday Mayday Mayday (999). Judgement is still required though, to make that call.
Did your job years ago make it easier for you to decide what to do re going to hospital for help nowadays ? Its certainly never easy for most people.
I've now decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms. I was still at my home and she was in hers 10 minutes away. I have permission at her doctor's surgery to speak on her behalf.
Whether to dial 999 is an interesting point and I think we all often hesitate before doing it.
Yes Jean. Most of us would hesitate to dial 999 knowing that they are over stretched and overworked. My wife worked for the emergency services and I have one niece working in the 999 call centre and one a paramedic on ambulances in London. They all say that they know that what I will call here "normal people" probably hesitate and tend to think they can make it until they can get to the GP (though that is getting harder these days and not always a good or viable option) whereas other less thoughtful people (shall we say) will call 999 when they stub their toe on a bank holiday. My wife is always telling me when I should either dial 999 or go to A&E - usually when I have refused to do so I have been OK but it's good to have my wife there continually observing me and asking if I am OK and ready to spring into action should I not be. Harder when you are not in the same room as the casualty and can't hear what they are saying to the telephone operator or paramedic.
They say with chest pains especially as we get older, to phone 999 immediately. I know everything is over stretched but it's better to be wrong than to put it off.
Even if you end up driving to a&e because its quicker than waiting for an ambulance.
It's not quite that straightforward if we have other conditions. I've got a grouth on my spine that means I very often get chest neck and arm pains tingling squeezing all the symptoms of heart problems. So it's not always straightforward.
Phoning 111 in your case was right in that if they felt it was an Emergency like she was having a couple to breathe as well they would treat it as 999 .
We do the best we can for those we love, your sister is lucky to have you
It must be difficult for you to decide what to do when you also have the pain from the growth on your spine.
After reading all the comments here, I've now decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance if they thought it necessary. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
Interesting question Jean - when I had a HA almost 3 years ago I sat on the bed and didn’t want to worry my youngest kid who was in bed at the time and even when a weird feeling went down both arms I somehow convinced myself it’d be fine and when it went off I managed to go to sleep (totally ridiculous) Next day told my sis what had happened and initially she put phone down - she called back and said she had almost convinced herself it wasn’t a problem but then thought what the hell was she doing and insisted we go to the hospital. I knew I needed to and agreed but said I’m having a shower and even jumped on the running machine for 15 minutes as felt like a faker (more ridiculous behaviour) - walked into A&E and felt fine - Troponin test came back and doctor came out calling for me and I was stood outside the waiting area ..rest is history and yes I was damned lucky. I can also not imagine advising anyone to do what I did and cannot honestly believe that I somehow managed to convince myself that this was rational behaviour 😂😂
It's so strange how we can't quite accept that it may be our heart that's causing our pain. You were certainly lucky, fancy going on your running machine too! My goodness that was true denial of having a heart problem. Thank goodness for your sister seeing sense. As for having a shower before going to A&E, yes that would be me too. No matter if I was at deaths door I would still take a shower before going to hospital.
I hope that my sister is fine now, though the little niggly thought in my head still wonders if it was more than AF. I will be keeping an eye on her. Fortunately she has me, my younger sister and my daughter all looking out for her.
Stop beating yourself up. There is no guarantee that even if you had called an ambulance straight away your sister would have got to hospital any quicker. Glad she is feeling better now and hope you are recovering from the stressful day. The last thing you need is guilty feelings giving you more stress! I get a sensation of constriction in my upper chest and throat at the beginning of afib attacks. If afib comes on when I am sleeping and wakes me up it is this that alerts me that I am in afib as my heart does not thump anymore.
Hmm that sounds an unusual way for your AF to start, or have you seen other people on the forum say the same thing? My sister had her pain under her left breast and said it made her feel really ill. I was terrified she was having a heart attack but kept calm. It broke my heart to hear her cry because it frightened her.
I've now decided that my calling the NHS111 number was the correct thing to do. I thought they would send an ambulance for her right away but when they spoke to her she failed to say about the squeezing feeling in her heart. When they called me and said to take her to A&E I told them about it and they said if she got worse while I was driving I should stop in a safe place and dial 999.
I still have a niggly feeling that she may have a problem with her heart besides AF.
Yes I have seen a few posts from others who get this feeling of constriction. But you were quite right to suspect something more serious with your sister because she was feeling ill as well as getting the pain. I only feel mildly "off" when I wake up in afib. I'm sure you did the right thing in calling 111. It's always difficult if people are unable to give a cogent run down of their symptoms. Unfortunately us fibbers are only too well tuned into what our hearts are doing! Hope the stress of this is dying down now.
Hi Jean, I was thoroughly told off by my doctor for phoning him instead of going to A&E when I had chest pain and dizziness with AF. My husband took me and I was seen very quickly. I had an angiogram and was diagnosed with a ‘heart attack’ caused by an artery spasm as no clot was found. As everyone rightly says, hindsight is a wonderful thing when you are no longer panicked by an unexpected situation! But my advice now would that with heart attack symptoms if you have transport immediately available with someone else driving you should go to A&E asap, but if not call 999 with a clear description of symptoms.
I called 999 several times while my husband was ill and always got a very quick response - maybe we were just lucky but I realised worrying about a long wait or being a nuisance or looking like a panicky fool should not put you off.
Hi Buff, thank you for your reply. I too have always had a good and speedy response from dialling 999. The care that the paramedics give is first class, there they are two people giving you their full attention. One time they gave me morphine for pain in the ambulance and another time oxygen to help me breathe both really helped. This was all in my build up to having pneumonia and spending some time in hospital.
When we call our doctor's surgery a recording comes on at the start saying if you have chest pain to dial 999 right away.
I've now decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
I think we think we are wasting their time that's why we don't immediately ring 999.
I had a similar experience. Like you a 111 doctor took over 2 hours before they called back. By that time I was too worried for my mum and too her to A&E. The wait was horrendous with many waiting in corridors. Eventually we ended up waiting in the corridor too for a resus bed. They kept saying they'd start mum on fluids, that took hours and by that time she was critically unwell. Ended up on an Acute High Dependency Unit. During those days whilst she was recovering I realised how dysfunctional parts the ambulance and NHS service is. My mum has a AF but also last year diagnosed with HFpEF. Things were missed and our local hospital is CQC rated has 'needs improvement'.
The Ambulance service to has been scrutinised. Stroke and heart patients time matters. There is an urgency in getting to the hospital but the ambulance service states they are overwhelmed with calls. 111 people are left waiting for a callback that takes hours. And sometime if you ring 999 you can be waiting for hours for an ambulance.
I agree with every word you have said and that's awful re your hospital CQC rating. OMG just looked up the rating for mine and its Requires Improvement. I must read that report properly some time to see where they're failing. I think everything has gone downhill more since covid.
Yes, I thought to myself that my sister could have a problem by the time the NHS111 doctor responded.
A friend has just knocked on my door and given me an unusual bar of milk chocolate called Tony's Chocolonely, never tried it before. I haven't had my dinner yet so really mustn't just try just a cube as I know what will happen. It feels really thick chocolate. Right mind off of it now and must get dinner.
It really does concern me our hospital ratings. Our hospital was on the news a few years ago because of the number of cardiac patients that had died and internal conflicts between senior doctors.
I think what covid has shown is the disparity in how patients are treated. We saw many elderly people and their care was less than the more healthy patients. I can see why the covid enquiry is looking at why so many elderly people died. Most intensive care units will not take the elderly if they become critically unwell. It's a blanket approach. And that worries me if you have a heart condition like my mum.
Enjoy your dinner and hopefully a little chocolate.
We all question our decisions in hindsight, but you still did the right thing in the route you took and it had positive results in your care for your sister. Now you can both relax and know that your sister is under doctor's care for a-fib -- and she has you to go to for answers because of all your knowledge from having the same condition.
Thanks to all the lovely people who have responded to my post I've now decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number, as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she only gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
You done good girl! You were there for her. She wasn’t alone. Who knows if calling 999 would have been better… it certainty would have been easier for you. Sounds like you as well as your sister went through a lot. Now take care of you.
I'm so glad I was there for her as I always will be. I think she now takes 9 tablets a day, she's also has type 2 diabetes.
Because of all the lovely responses I've had from members of this forum I've now decided that I did the right thing by dialling the NHS111 number, as I truly thought they would immediately send an ambulance. Unfortunately, they spoke to my sister and she gave them half of the story regarding her symptoms.
Listen you have done what felt right for your sister! No point beating yourself up about it now! I think if the pain has been very severe with breathlessness and pain in her left arm... Etc and other symptoms you would have rung 999 straight away! Relax okay, I think you are a very caring sister and you did your best in those circumstances!
And it's really beneficial to have a patient doctor who could explain everything to your sister so to also make her feel relaxed and in safe hands!
Well I pray that the medication will work well for your sister Jeanjeanie ❤️❤️❤️🙏
Thank you Snowdrops for your kind and caring words.
Yes, we were so lucky to have that lovely, young, handsome, doctor explain everything clearly to my sister. I would write a letter to the hospital praising him if I'd taken note of his name. May do it anyway and say it was the doctor who discharged her.
I asked her how she felt today and she said better. Hmmm.
Unfortunately where I live there is another consideration to add to the mix as I have found out this weekend. Living on an offshore island in UK We only have one small hospital and unfortunately A& E has been under reconstruction for over a year and 2 years to go. The main hospital entrance which is the only entrance to AE has been completely blocked off to vehicles with only a very small footpath available. It is almost impossible to find a parking space in the car park and absolutely impossible to find a disabled bay. The last time I was told by 111 to attend and given a very small timeframe to arrive I exceeded that trying to park and was not able to walk. As driver had nowhere to leave car we could not get wheelchair out and be pushed in. I called from car but no help or advice was available. This weekend the exact same situation has occurred and when mentioned was told that’s the best we can offer take it or leave it! I had to leave it. I am now seeing how long I can hold on am in bed home alone with shakes and shivers I am self diagnosing as septic as I think I have a large abscess in my groin impossible to walk now. Hopefully still be here when sister arrives in morning. Her husband has car at work so she cannot come till then. Hospital webpage showing life or death attendances only.
So I know what a trauma it is trying to reach the right call to make. Sadly in my case none work or are available. Oh ambulances are ‘impossible to say how long when spoke earlier this evening’
Sorry to hear the difficulty you're having. Could you get a taxi to the hospital? Also if you are prepared to sit it out at home, why don't you call for an ambulance even if it does take a while to arrive. Doing something is better that doing nothing. Sepsis is a serious matter as I'm sure you know.
Please let me know how you get on and do something please to get yourself checked out even if it means driving closer to the hospital, parking and then getting a taxi to pick you up from where you've parked.
Thank you unfortunately taxis have same problem there is no drop off point anywhere near the front entrance and no way to summon help from car park unless you are paying for parking then there is plenty of help to take your money but even a human if they come to help with payment say not insured to assist patient. Ambulance will not accept anything but ‘life threatening’ at present.
Called GP first thing -appointment tomorrow am if gets worse call 111’circles’ comes to mind. Felll on on last two steps this am coming down stairs. Have bothered no one. Am documenting for a formal complaint.
Thank you again for kind words am all cried out now this should not be happening to a 78 year old who has worked as we all have and paid into a system. If this was not a Government department but a private company taking money and not providing service paid for would be fraud?
Just picked this up Jean. I'm not sure you did anything wrong. If your sister wasn't struggling with her breathing, sweating and nauseous (all signs of a heart attack- jaw, neck and arm pain being others), then maybe something was telling you it wasn't a full on emergency. Presumably 111 would have picked up on that too. A friend recently had an episode of severe vertigo - she was on the floor, throwing up and couldn't speak. 111 were into it like a shot - escalated it to 999 and she was blue lighted to A and E. It wasn't a stroke and all is well. Just as a point of comparison. I'm so glad there was a good outcome for your sister. She's lucky to have you.
Thank you for your kind words Singwell. Yes, it's not always easy to know what to do that's right for a situation that involves the heart.
Through all the kind responses I've received to my post I've now decided I did the right thing by calling the NHS111 number. I honestly thought they'd send an ambulance right away. Unfortunately my sister who they rang has mild learning difficulties and had only told them a few of her symptoms, not that her heart had a feeling like it was being squeezed.
I think she has a type of words spoken blindness, which I think we can all sometimes have if we are given too much information all at once. She watches programs on tv and we talk about it afterwards and I'll say something like it was sad when he died, she'll say "Oh did he die". I say how you can not know that you watched the programme. She often just doesn't absorb what she hears or sees.
you are a wonderful sister, none of us have a crystal ball and you have no idea how long the wait for an ambulance would have been, or what would be more stressful for your sister. Now you both have to relax and recover
Having read and admired your caring and loving post's over the years I can tell what kind of a person you are, and without a shadow of doubt you went down the correct road. You and your sister take care and enjoy your retail therapy oven buying.
I'll never forgot how hateful my AF was, it's not been so bad for the last few years after my third ablation. I'm now left in constant AF between 60-90bpm so I'm lucky and can cope with that. I often can't reply to a post because I've never experienced what the person needs help with. Can only speak as I've had or learnt over the many years I've been on this forum.
Thanks for asking Jean, I've come to terms with being in permanent A/F the old ticker doesn't seem to want to play ball. Who knows what the future holds but for now just happy to get out and about in the amazing yorkshire countryside .
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