hi everybody, I’m 63 and have always kept myself pretty fit and healthy. I’m 5’8’ and 10 stone.I lead an active life, running around my little farm place, riding horses etc Always on the go at 90mph!
My diet is healthy, most of it homegrown. I do/did enjoy a glass of white wine in the evenings with my meal. I think that’s out now!
I was diagnosed with SVT last summer, with rates of 240 apparently!
Six weeks ago I went into AF with rates 150-170 (I have a Kardio mobile monitor) I didn’t go to hospital for four days, hoping it would right itself!
Was kept in for three days, increased betablockers (Nebivolol from 2.5 to 10mg and put on blood thinners. The were still struggling to get my hr down. They did an intravenous treatment, which didn’t work and then gave me a high dose of Digoxin, which brought it down.
I have now been in continuous AF for nearly five weeks. I’ve been sent back into hospital again a couple of times with high hr and I’m now on Digoxin at 2.5 daily with the Nebivolol 10
My life is on hold as I feel so tired. I was hoping to have an ablation, but my urgent cardiology referral came through for six weeks time! I could have cried! I have now gone for a private consultation. Advised by my GP! I am now booked in for a cardio version on Tuesday, privately. Shouldn’t have to, I know!
Please advise me on the treatments and outcomes?
Thank you 😊
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If the cardioversionis successful and gets you back into Normal Sinus Rhythm even for a short while it will signpost the way to further treatment being successful such as ablation. Hopefully you are going to see an Electrophysiologist (EP) who can put you o his NHS list after first private consultation as mine did. Good Luck!
The advice from the private consultant was to have the cardio version as soon as possible. Then keep my NHS telephone appointment (end March) 🙄 by then we will know if it has worked and I can then hopefully progress to an ablation, if required?? Not sure though, if it has worked, what I want the NHS to do??
Yes that's a good idea too if he can't get you on his NHS list. If the cardioversion works then much more likely that the ablation will work and the sooner you get this done the better. I think a private ablation must cost in the region of £15,000 now and a cardioversion around £2,000+ . It was £9,000 for a private ablation and £1,500 for ablation when I was diagnosed back in 2017.
If it works and you feel better in NSR then you will be a good candidate for an ablation which should last longer than a cardioversion - though again you may need more than one ablation to treat all the rogue areas which may have been missed at the first ablation. Sometimes cardioversions can be enough but I think normally they are short term. I had 3 and they kept me in NSR for 3 out of 4 years before I was referred for an ablation.
It makes me cross to hear that you weren't offered a cardioversion during one of your hospital stays, but then lets face it that's the way things are these days. I hope you are going to keep your NHS appointment too?
That's a hefty whack of Nebivolol you're taking, so no wonder you're feeling tired. Digoxin made me feel really low and I'm generally a happy person. Why on earth are you stuck on pills that aren't helping your heart rate? Honestly, I'm of the opinion that life is going backwards instead of forwards in this world.
By the way I've been in constant AF for just over 4 years but it's at a rate of between 60-90bpm. I've had three ablations and numerous cardioversions over my 19 years of having AF. Try not to worry about how your heart is behaving now (hard I know) because stress/anxiety appears to feed AF. So the more you can take your mind off of it the better - took me years to realise that. Slow deep breathing, deep into your stomach can also help reduce the rate. I'll send you a list of tips for stopping AF that I've gathered off this forum over the many years I've been a member.
These are all the tips I’ve saved over the years, given by forum members, for stopping AF. None have been written by me, all from other members here (names have been removed for privacy):
I am a therapist in private practice for over 20yrs.One of my therapies is yoga based. Having quite an accurate knowledge of anatomy, neurology and physiology also having PAF I have found this technique helps me immensely when my heart is fluttering like crazy. Make yourself comfortable either on a bed or lying on the floor, position a pillow under you head, Raise your left arm in an extension position as if you are doing the backward crawl. Stretch as much as you can and imagine that it is stretching your heart muscle...I bend my arm and position my hand under my head palm upwards.. Stay in that position for as long as you can or until the fluttering subsides...At the same time I think of something pleasant. It does not matter what you think about as long as it is a pleasant thought for you. This stops my heart jumping about almost instantly....I also place my right hand over my heart area...Don't panic and just keep calm thinking pleasant thoughts....I do hope this helps you. Kind Regards. C
As someone else who finds yoga breathing and some positions helpful, I would love to try (xxxx) suggestion, but lying down flat tends to make things worse for me. My most helpful position, taught me by a lovely yoga teacher, is based on a yoga forward bend. I sit up with my legs outstretched in front of me and a pillow under my knees, and then bend forward from the hips not the waist, with my arms relaxed but outstretched towards my ankles, and breath deeply and slowly. It's not so good on a full stomach and is more comfortable with your knees slightly apart, and I guess you have to be a bit flexible to find it comfortable, but it has proved to be a great help.
I agree with (xxxx) that staying calm and focusing on something pleasant is a must, and I've even fallen asleep like this as most of my episodes occur at night.
Finally, like AV nodal re-entry, some people have recurrent rapid rhythms that are infrequent and easy to self-control by using various methods to increase neural slowing to the AV node (so-called, "vagal manoeuvres"). Using these manoeuvres, one can sometimes stop the arrhythmia. These manoeuvres include:
Bearing down forcefully like you're having a bowel movement for 5-10 seconds, then slowly exhaling in the neck while lying down for approximately 5 seconds
Placing very cold (soaked in ICE water) cloth on the face abruptly.
Coughing forcefully
Rubbing the carotid artery (only one side at a time, never both) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There's a yoga breathing exercise that has worked for me before. Lie on your back, bend your knees up so they are above your hips and your lower legs are at 90 degrees. Take a breath in for a count of 4 then breathe out for a count of at least 8. As you breathe out, bring your knees into your chest so you curl into a ball. When you think you've got all the air out of your lungs, try and breathe out more! Breathe in again for 4 and release your legs out to the starting position. Repeat several times. It helps to reset the diaphragm and focus should be on a good long out-breath.
So, after discovering that making myself sneeze stops Afib. I have discovered another novel way to stop an attack. It involves drinking a litre bottle of water while holding my nose. It's especially effective if I experience almost panic as I can't get a breath. I don't always finish the bottle but find that's not always necessary to gain the desired effect. Works especially well if I catch an attack early.
A quarter teaspoon of sea salt mixed with 10 ounces of warm water. drink that and then put a smaller amount on your hand and lick it off. Within a minute my afib stops.
This may sound like a "wind up" but believe me it works, for me anyway.
Dear Jean, that’s twice I’ve lost my reply to your earlier posts! 🤨 Thsnk you so much for all the useful information and tips - that very helpful. The yoga advice is encouraging as I have attended a yoga class for years and hope to return, when I feel well enough.
My drug cocktail they have got me up to, ever increasing! Seems to have brought my HR to a better level 90-100 most of the time.
The reason the cardio version was not carried out during my different visits to A&E or ED was because I had not been on Apixaban for long enough to protect me against blood clots.
I’m going to send this now, as I lost the previous two! Thanks again Heather x
Jeanjeannie, You could add this to your list to stop SVT. :- (I had SVT as well as AFib,)
I found if I lay down on the floor and put my feet up against a wall, it seemed to stop the SVT after a few minutes, not sure why it worked, but it didn’t work for AFib though.
On a couple of occassions, the SVT wouldn’t stop and I went to A&E and they gave me a shot of Adenosine, which stopped it almost immediately, but it made you feel horrible for a few minutes.Pity they can’t use Adenosine to stop AFib.
The EP actually found the SVT when he did my ablation for AFib and ablated that as well, so hopefully neither will come back. 🤞🤞
I once tried putting my feet up against the wall above my bed pillows. I came over very faint, but then couldn't stop laughing thinking of what my family would think if they found me passed out in that position.
hi I’m 66 and have had a few cardioversions and all have worked, quite straightforward and nothing to stress about. That should get you back into Sinus. Back in 2022 I was in AF for around 5 weeks they gave me drugs to control the rate as well as Flecainide to settle the rhythm but ultimately the CV got me back in sinus. That lasted about 10 months. I’ve since had another CV.
When I did my bloodwork I asked for magnesium, vitD3 and CoQ10. All three were low. I’ve been supplementing since and seem to be going ok. Maybe see if you’re deficient. After CV take it easy for a couple of weeks maybe start some level walks for 20-30 minutes after a few days but nothing strenuous. I love my training but my heart needed time to settle into its rhythm after being out of whack for 5 weeks. I see myself as lucky I was diagnosed 31 years ago and only had AF hit me once every 4 or 5 years until 2022! I have continued my training regime all that time and continue today but set myself safe HR thresholds
Other helpful tips that I've learnt having had AF for 19 years, three ablations (where they go up through your groin to burn or freeze the inside of the heart the rogue pulses often come from) and numerous cardioversions (electric shock to put the heart back into it's correct rhythm) my advice to everyone diagnosed with AF is the following:
1. Be Aware you are most unlikely to die from Atrial Fibrillation (AF). I used to think that the way my heart bounced around I would surely be found dead next day. Still here though!
2. Changing your diet to a more plant based one, avoiding any foods containing artificial additives, not allowing yourself to become dehydrated, cutting back on sugar, alcohol and caffeine, also losing weight (if it's needed) will all have a beneficial effect on your AF. Artificial sweeteners were a sure trigger for my attacks. How I wish I'd known all of this before having any of my ablations. Would I have listened if anyone had told me? Probably not, because I believed ablations would cure me - three didn't! They have helped some people though and my AF now is not so severe.
3. This is a hard one, but looking at gadgets that show your pulse and AF will make you anxious and anxiety feeds AF. I was obsessed with what my heart was doing for about the first ten+ years of my AF journey and my attacks were so debilitating I'd end up in a hospital ward, it has taken me a long time to take my mind off this subject and get on with living. The less I think about it, the better I feel. Now I used to feel cross with people who suggested I stop looking at my pulse rate machines, I thought that their AF couldn't be as bad as mine and they didn't understand how poorly attacks made some of us feel. I would get cross with anyone who said they could still go on holiday and carry on life as normal. They made me feel evil, by not understanding how ill I felt! In our minds AF is only as bad as we have experienced, for some attacks are mild for others they're more severe.
4. Make sure you don't slouch, or unwittingly do shallow breathing while watching tv or if you're online. If you do your heart will protest. Also avoid tight clothing around your waist or chest.
5. Try supplementing with magnesium, any type except oxide (I use glycinate from YourSupplements and also take taurine, zinc, vitamin B complex, D3, K2 & C). I feel fine and there's little I can't do now, despite being in constant low rate AF. Or at least I think I am, I don't check these days.
6. If over 60 I would make sure that you’re taking an anticoagulant to prevent blood clots forming and causing a stroke. Note that they do not thin the blood in any way, just stop it from clotting so quickly. You should not notice any major difference in the way you bleed.
Yes pretty much like yours in the day time but it does drop into the 40s when sleeping and a lower resting rate of 58.I bought a wellue 24 hour monitor that is picking up various heart rates I'm a bit concerned about 2 episodes of ventricular tachycardia lasting a minute or two and a high burden of PVCs about 14% of heart beats not sure if anything else can be done
Yes, your AF story is very much like mine. I really don't know much about ventricular problems. I did have an ECG in 2022 that said variable AV block with premature ventricular or aberrantly conducted complexes. No one has ever spoken to me about a ventricular problem.
Now since stopping taking Flecainide my ECG records Undetermined rhythm and otherwise normal ECG.
I don't worry about my heart rate anymore and hope it will stay more normal now. Like you I've had three ablations.
Very wise decision to go privately and one many of us have as waiting times are often off the scale.
The Cardioversion will determine whether or not NSR can be achieved and possibility of further treatments such as ablation having a good outcome. If cardioversion is successful, even if it doesn’t last, it proves that NSR is possible and a possible treatment path.
Cardioversion is rarely a lasting treatment - could last a few seconds to a few years so go in with realistic expectations and an open mind.
Amiodarone is sometimes given prior and following cardioversion - was that mentioned? Not a nice drug with many unpleasant affects but about the most effective drug for achieving and sustaining NSR but not a good idea as a long term plan.
If Cardioversion is not successful then you need to talk to your doctor about what next choices are:-
Accept that you may be in persistent AF and agree no more interventions and stay with drugs to control HR. Many people in persistent AF find their body adjusts and they are less symptomatic than in PAF. This may bring restrictions and adjustments to your activities if you were very active but everyday life is often not affected.
Look and investigate other treatments and see if you would be a candidate for something like hybrid mini maze - still very new in UK but look @Mummyluv posts - now I have tagged her she may see this post and reply in person.
If persistent AF is very symptomatic then Pace & Ablate is the final option - not to stop AF but to reduce symptoms. This is insertion of a pacemaker followed about 6 weeks later with ablation of the AV node which send signals from atria to ventricle. When the AV node is ablated you are completely pacemaker dependant and AF may continue, you may even feel it but your pulse will be steady and regular so there will be an improvement of QOL.
I think the reality is that some adjustment to your pace of life may be called for, not to stop altogether but just slow down a bit. I know that takes some getting used to and the hardest lesson I had to learn but now at 72 I have had to accept that I have had to adapt. The worst thing you could do is to achieve NSR and continue to do things at the pace you were - if you don’t make that choice - believe me - your heart will!
I had a pacemaker inserted in 2018 after 2 ablations in 2013/14 and AF returned with a vengeance. Luckily for me the pacemaker on its own did its magic and reduced my AF burden to 2-5% a year. My pacemaker is now working 100% of the time and I enjoy an active life - but at a slower pace .
I wish you luck with the cardioversion, let us know how you get on.
PS - head over to the AFA website and read up about cardioversion and what to expect and other treatments. heartrhythmalliance.org/afa...
PPS - Cardio Resynchronisation Pacemaker was my magic bullet!
Excellent advice, thank you so much. My husband of less than three years, who is considerably older than me, (but great for his age), keeps telling me to slow down!! I think I need to listen to this advice! 🤨x
Actually I don't think you did tag "MummyLuv" in your reply, because as I learned from a similar mistake, you need to select MummyLuv from the drop-down menu of members that appears after your initial "@Mu...", because otherwise you just have the lettering "@MummyLuv", but without the tag you wanted.
Hi, you are doing right at seeking treatment straight away, especially if it's lone AF and there are no other issues with your health. I was diagnosed a year ago with persistent lone and I wasted many months because of NHS and private insurance trying to refuse treatment. If I knew then what I know now I would have done anything (like going abroad or pay from my own pocket) to get a cardioversion asap. Unfortunately the first cardiologist I've seen down played it at the beginning.
You'll see people giving you various suggestions to stop it, unfortunately it is different for everyone and my experience is that many people (fellow afibber and not) struggle to understand that sometimes it is totally out of your hands. I'm young and healthy, I ate mediterranean diet all my life, I don't drink... it doesn't mean anything, I've seen 3 cardiologists in UK and in Italy and they all agree there is nothing I can do with the choices in my power about it.
Of course, as for any disease, looking after yourself helps but it won't make it go away, especially if it didn't make it come in the first place.
The best suggestion I can offer, considering you are also quite young, it's stay in Afib as less as possible, ignore NHS and take charge of it. I was diagnosed in March 2023, I had first cardioversion on August 2023 (by that time I had developed flutter too). Cardiologists suggested at that point to wait and see. November 2023 I had another episode coming in the night(and flutter now going hand in hand with afib), Apple watch was great in taking the time it started in the HRV record, because if you are not on anticoagulant you have 48 h to be cardioverted. I went to A&E and they refused any treatment, I wrote to my cardiologist in Milan and suggested to get to A&E in Italy to have cardioversion before the 48 h, so that I didn't need my heart to stay in it for other months... after having 2 cardioversions in 4 months I decided to go for an ablation. Remember earlier stage the ablation, bigger the chance of success. I had one in January and I'm hoping I will get rid of this at least for some time, because my life has been completely disrupted.
See how cardioversion goes, hopefully it is reversible and if it is bite it back
I was in a similar situation, a runner...5-10k non stop a few times per week gym etc...That was 3 years ago and I have been in Afib since then. Mine started suddenly when I felt palpitations and took myself off to A&E...Started on Beta blockers and Anticoagulants with an urgent appointment to Cardiology ( well it took 6 months!! (. I am 69 this year, was very fit, a little heavier than you at 5ft 6. Fortunately I have hardly any symptoms....I had telephone consults, and was listed for an ablation which I had in May...It put me in NSR for one week, then back in Afib....I had a cardioversion yesterday ( Feb 25 th and I am back in NSR for now!!)...Some points:
Dr Told me I have persistent long standing Afib...The earlier you have ablation or cardioversion the better, certainly within 2-3 years of it starting.
Make sure you see an Electrophysiologist ( A cardiologist with extra training on the hearts electrical system ). They deal with Afib as a distinct disease and are used to treating it.
Be positive. Its not a death sentence. People live long and productive lives with Afib. Its treated in 2 main ways...Rhythm control ( they will attempt to get you back to normal rhythm ) or if not, the Rate control when they will make sure your pulse rate is usually not above 100 at rest. Like yours, mine has been a little all over the show, so my meds have been adjusted accordingly, and its something I am a bit paranoid about
I know many people don't like taking meds, but dont be a fool like some folks who decide for themselves a tablet is not suitable and stop it!!!....Be guided by your doctor. Anticoagulation is designed to reduce your chance of a stroke, a complication of Afib...Take it. Also when you see the doc ask him for your CHAD score which assesses overall risk.
I presume you are under the care of a specialist Cardiology unit...If so see if they have arrhythmia nurses and get their contact details. They are nurse specialist and a great help and support to patients.
Stay positive. Afib is the commonest cardiac arrhythmia worldwide. It is commoner as we get older as well..There can be many triggers and its not uncommon in athletes and fit people. I have cut out caffeine and still have the occasional glass of wine/beer...You do need to live!...Many people have been in persistent Afib for years!!...All the very best
The heart can be very stubborn if you read my posts . My husband had a cardio version in November which only lasted a few days sadly . He had an ablation in 2017 which had obviously failed last year . The AF caused his stroke . Everybody is different so your might be a success . My husband is 65 and in persistent AF .
Oh poor thing, and so young. Certainly seems like I need to go into this with hope, but realising that it’s unlikely to be the ‘fix’ I was first thinking it might be. 🤨
yes it all went so well at the time . He wasn’t out in blood thinners afterwards for some reason so not sure when it all started going wrong as he didn’t wear an Apple Watch until after his stroke . Take care
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