Decision time and a reminder

[Samazeuilh2]

A reminder to all: tomorrow, 31st January, is the last day for the Covid jab. I’ve been dithering but am leaning towards having it. Certainly, I will have to if I want to go on holiday this year. I have no idea when the next vaccine will be available. I’ve posted on this before, but a final request for info: does anyone have any reliable information on the potential effects of the Pfizer (or other mRNA vaccine) on paroxysmal atrial fibrillation (links to papers, articles etc. or any definitive statements from cardiologists.)? I’ve been looking but haven’t come up with much.

[mjames1]

I had the Pfizer jab a couple of weeks ago. No side effects other than a sore arm. You will not find the information you want from any reputable source, but know this -- there are worse outcomes than having an afib episode from the jab. You could end up with a serious case of Covid which can make afib look like small bananas. FWIW anecdotally, I've read here and other places, more afib episodes caused by Covid than by the jab, not to say either can't cause it.

Jim

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to mjames1]

Thanks for your reply. You are right about the need to consider the risk from Covid as well as the risk of AF. I’m not bothered about an isolated episode of AF- I have fairly infrequent paroxysmal AF and dread the prospect of it going permanent.

[wilsond]

Had all mine no problems at all.

[Tiburon]

Why do you feel a need to get the jab? It will not keep you from getting Covid. If you Google the British NIH, you will find well documented reports of heart inflammation attributable to the mRNA vaccination. The British health authorities have been far more forthcoming about the side effects of the mRNA jab than their U.S. counterparts.

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Tiburon]

I think the heart inflammation affects mostly younger people in their twenties from what I have read. The UK imo no longer gives out as much information as previously; it seems to try to refer to Covid as little as possible in order to get people to “learn to live” with it.

[Auriculaire in reply to Samazeuilh2]

The US is probably the only country in the world that is still actively pushing covid jabs for all. One needs to ask "why?" . None of these jabs have been shown to have any real efficacy several months after injection. The rapid rate of mutation means that the prevailing variant when you actually take your holiday will likely be different to the one being used in the jab. If you are not going on holiday till the summer any jab you have now might make no difference to whether you get covid badly or not. You would be much better strenghtening your immune system by other means. This would also protect you from infections other than covid.

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Auriculaire]

Its quite a complex picture. This study discusses aspects of vaccine effectiveness. I agree that the effects of the vaccine do not seem to be very long lasting. ecdc.europa.eu/en/publicati....

[ETHEL103 in reply to Samazeuilh2]

I had a bad reaction less than 24 hours after my 4th jab which was Moderna,the other 3 were Pfizer which caused no problems at all.Heart went into a fib for 24 hours.

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to ETHEL103]

I’ve just had the vaccine. The pharmacist echoed what you have said: they had reports of arrhythmias after the Modena, but not the Pfizer.

[CDreamer]

Where do you want to go on holiday which is still demanding COVID jab? I didn’t think there still were restrictions?

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to CDreamer]

I meant that I would not feel happy about flying (in proximity to other passengers, going through crowds etc.) without being vaccinated.

[Thomas45]

I've had all covid jabs available. I've never had any side effects nor have I had covid.

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Thomas45]

Yes, some people have been unaffected. The problem is it’s impossible to predict which group you will be in!

[Thomas45 in reply to Samazeuilh2]

True, but also remember this: that COVID can kill you. AF might be unwelcome and upsetting but it won't kill you.

[CDreamer]

I just checked - 3 countries in Africa - everywhere else is open travel.

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to CDreamer]

I want to go to Italy and Cuba this year. Without the vaccine (even with the vaccine) that would be a risky proposition.

[paolina in reply to Samazeuilh2]

No problem with Italy. Like in the UK we are not being pushed to have the vaccination like before. You are expected to wear masks in the Hospital reception areas and wards.

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to paolina]

Thanks for your reply. I used to live in Italy. I was mostly worried about travelling there not so much about any risk from being there. I would expect the risk to be about the same as here.

[KathleenV]

Hello,I genuinely can't understand why you would risk getting this jab. Haven't you got enough problems. It's not about short term effects from having it but rather long term effects.

You can always choose to have it at a future date but once you have done it that's it.

Kathleen

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to KathleenV]

Mostly it would be for travel, but three times this year I’ve been in proximity to people with Covid (there may have been other times which I didn’t know about) in spite of taking lots of precautions: once in hospital, once when a friend returned from holiday, once at a click-and -collect point where a driver had it.

[Cumbremar5]

I have paroxysmal afib had jab in October had side effects with the Pfizer this time loss of taste muscle problems that resulted in double vision for two weeks. I did have the flu jab same time. Dont think I'll risk it next year. Doctors and ophthalmologist said not due to covid jab. I'm convinced it was.

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Cumbremar5]

It’s difficult to know. Could you have contracted Covid after the jab?

[CDreamer in reply to Samazeuilh2]

The jab doesn’t stop you getting COVID! Supposedly it gives your immune system the heads up as to what to recognise when you do get so that you create antibodies and alert the T cells to fight the virus. Unless you have been in hibernation for the last 4 years, you will have been in contact, you probably will have had it and not gotten ill so you didn’t know (unless you tested clear very regularly?)

I agree that travel to and from, in any form, will increase your exposure to COVID, Flu, 100 day cough and RSV but I have come to believe that is not the problem, it’s your vulnerability and resilience which determines outcomes. I found the jab lessened my resilience, hence my decision to not have further jabs.

I do think that healthy diet, ensuring VitD levels are high, good gut health (microbiome is all over the news at the moment for immunity health) is your best defense. Just MHO.

[Ppiman]

If you are in a risk group, then have the booster is my view from all the reading I have done. However, if you have had a jab in the last year, and have also at some recent point had covid-19 itself, then, from what I have read, your immune system is well able to deal with any infection and another booster won't add much extra.

That said, we decided to have our autumn booster towards the end of last year and have had no side effects whatsoever.

Steve

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Ppiman]

I haven’t had a Covid vaccination since Nov 2021 ( I missed one because of a bypass). I’ve had two AZ and a half dose Pfizer (a booster). Previously, I had lots of ectopics after the vaccinations (mostly after the Pfizer)- usually a few weeks afterwards; they lasted for a month or so. I know these are not generally dangerous but I’ve had a lot of them since the bypass and am concerned that a full Pfizer might lead to ectopics which trip over into AF. I had an episode of AF a month ago, previously nothing for a year. Basically, I value peace of mind and am not looking forward to the anxiety which would follow the jab- will I get AF or not? Granted that a lot of this is due to my particular worrying mindset. At the same time Covid seems to be on the increase and I had a close shave a month ago when I was in proximity to a driver at the supermarket click-and-collect who told me he had Covid.

[Ppiman in reply to Samazeuilh2]

You have my sympathy over this. I do understand how you must feel. It’s not easy.

But it’s also true that we are surrounded by misinformation and social media magnifies medical risks. By its very nature, it attracts more comments from people who are worried or who feel negative. These then get “pooled” in a way and create the sense that a risk is important when, in reality, it’s too tiny to be of realistic concern.

In your case, though, having had those ectopic beats. and with other cardiac history, I’d discuss your feelings with your GP - hoping that you have that kind of relationship with him or her for that to be helpful. I don’t think you’ll get a definitive answer even then but at least you’ll have had professional advice.

Covid is still very real and isn’t something I’d like to catch again myself. Even if most get let off lightly, I know that some people catching the new strain are having a bad and worrying time of it. The virus is surely, by any measure, far more dangerous than the vaccine, especially for those of us deemed at greater risk.

Steve

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Ppiman]

Thanks for the reply. I’ve decided to have it. A BHF nurse this morning said that the vaccine can increase the heart rate and it is this which makes some people go into AF or get more ectopics than usual-this phenomenon is usually temporary. She also said the current Covid variant is quite vicious and a fair number of people with AF had had problems with it. She said that on the helpline they’d had no reports of anyone going from PAF to permanent AF. On balance, then, it seems better to have the vaccination. Apparently there will be another one in Spring when they’ve seen how effective this one is.

[Ppiman in reply to Samazeuilh2]

That sounds like you’ve had good advice from someone who both knows and cares.

I didn’t know that there was a spring vaccination planned by the government. I had read that the NHS has bought millions of doses of a different type of vaccine but that we won’t be given the choice which we’re given.

Steve

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Ppiman]

I had the vaccine about an hour ago. The pharmacist confirmed that there would be more vaccinations available in about 12 weeks. Unfortunately, I didn’t think to ask what sort of vaccine it would be.

[Ppiman in reply to Samazeuilh2]

Keep us posted how you go on! I think you'll get an achy arm for a day or so, but little else. I hope so!

Steve

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Ppiman]

So far so good!

[Ppiman in reply to Samazeuilh2]

Good to read! It takes a week or so to protect you, I gather. After about three to four weeks, the chances of any after effects are slim indeed. Despite the naysayers, it seems a very safe vaccine.

Steve

[Cumbremar5]

No I did a covid test and it was negative

[Jajarunner]

I had afib and cardioversion after my first Covid jab but not either all the other Covid jabs. But I also had afib and cardioversion after my fifth flu jab but not with any other flu jabs. I'd sooner have afib than long Covid coz that can be horrendous. Hope this helps

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Jajarunner]

Thanks. I opted to have the vaccine. I ought to get a flu jab too, but I’ll leave that for a while.

[Jajarunner in reply to Samazeuilh2]

Yes, I always have my separately just in case. Hope you are ok ❤️

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Jajarunner]

So far no problems, but it isn’t 24 hours yet.

[Tapanac]

I received this from my GP when I was undecided about having the jab as I had been ill with afib/tachycardia for 5-6 weeks after my last one or two jabs

I had it Saturday after all and have felt ill ever since pains under my armpits, right side, horrible cough, headache, sore throat

Having said that who knows whether it was the jab or I've caught something?

My husband is fine after his jab and he has a heart problem too

…….”There is a growing body of medical evidence now that suggests the risk of heart complications as a result of contracting covid, is several hundred times more likely than the risk of getting the same complications from the vaccine. We would therefore strongly recommend having the vaccine, if you have been deemed eligible for receiving it (as the only people currently being offered it are those with a higher risk of complications due to covid). I hope this information helps…..”

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Tapanac]

Thanks for this information.

[Qualipop]

I developed bad arrhythmia the day after my last one in October 2022 which lasted for 3 weeks. I had another bout of arrhyhmia last year and was hospitalised for 4 days. It wasn't AF but it was bad. The cardiologist said he was99% sure it had been caused by my last pfizer jab in late 22 and advised me to try to get a different brand .However he couldn't definitively say that was the cause; just that they'd had a lot of patients with the same. I couldn't get anything else so I haven't had it this time.

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Qualipop]

If cardiologists are not sure, it makes the decision virtually impossible for the layman!

[Qualipop in reply to Samazeuilh2]

True but how can they be sure when there's been little research as yet? No doctor is going to say "Don't have it".

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Qualipop]

Yes, that’s true. Generally, I would have expected there to be more research and more information available to the public after 4 years.

[Tomred]

Dr John Campbell on YouTube does all the maths maybe you will have a look.

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Tomred]

I will take a look.

[marcyh]

My two Pfizers were very harmful to my heart and otherwise as well. Some of the harm was immediate, some came later. I got Covid anyway. The fact that there has been such an inconsistent - and poor - track record with the jabs, masks, lockdowns, is evidence that it was not effective management to start with. The doctors who wrote the Great Barrington Declaration in the very beginning were right all along,

Focus on strong immunity - physically and mentally. Fear attacks our mental immune system. Have a proactive plan if you get sick (keep products on hand, they're right in your local pharmacy) and it will give you peace of mind.

[RatPurdy]

Recent news says Pfizer is being sued by the State of Texas for "misrepresentation" of the efficacy of its Covid inoculation. That cld be a game changer alright!

[Samazeuilh2]

Very interesting!

[Ronnieboy]

I've never bothered with a covid jab,and quite honestly whilst ,at present ,suffering from hemmorroids,I know what I'd rather have given a choice.

[secondtry]

I expect the jabs are being stopped for a reason and I understand millions of un wanted doses across Europe are being destroyed 🤔.

[Auriculaire in reply to secondtry]

The reason is that they are not effective - the paper that Samazeuilh posted of research done using health records in several European countries for efficacy against hospitalization and death shows rapidly waning effectiveness from a high of around 70% - not the 95% touted by Pfizer. By 24 weeks out it was as low as 3% in some cases! I don't know if you are familiar with Dr Pierre Kory's Substack. He has an interesting article about how the CDC in the States fudged figures for the effctiveness of the original series in collusion with lots of hospitals there which counted vaccinated people as unknown status and then lumped them into the unvaccinated category to minimise the numbers of vaccinated being hospitalised and dying. They then came out with the " pandemic of the unvaccinated" lie.

They also know that they are unsafe as well. There is more and more research coming out of how they negatively impact our physiology. But admitting that they bamboozled millions of people to partake in an experiment with a gene therapy product - fat chance!

[secondtry in reply to Auriculaire]

Totally agree, I am all over it from different worldwide sources and if all members have read what I have there would be no debate. Life is never that simple!

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Auriculaire]

Yes, but see this article (which refers to a recent study): amp.theguardian.com/world/2...

[Auriculaire in reply to Samazeuilh2]

I have already seen criticisms of this study which used modelling . Somebody here posted about it recently .One of the criticisms pointed out that the study admitted that the totally unvaccinated actually did better than the undervaccinated! Of course there is no mention of this in the Guardian - a paper that has banged the orthodox drum on everything from lockdowns to jabs throughout the pandemic. Could it be to do with the large sums of money they have received over the years from Bill Gates? Observational studies are prone to confounders anyway as a vaccinated and unvaccinated population are just not the same . One of the confounders that affects an immigrant population that has many melanin deficient people in it is that they often have very low vit D status as their skins are unable to make it in the UK climate. Early on in the pandemic before the vaccines even rolled out it was shown in several studies that those with low vit D did worse with covid. Men were more likely to do badly with covid than women and that too was known before the vaccine roll out.

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to secondtry]

The reason is probably economic-it’s expensive to keep vaccinating. Also, the public are now more accepting of the situation-everything is done to downplay or ignore it.