Dr. Joel Wallach

[Pommerania78]

Is there anybody who has heard of the teachings of Dr. Joel Wallach who says that AF is not caused by a condition of the heart but instead because the Vagus Nerve is being "pinched", either along the spine or at the head where it enters the skull. As you may know, the Vagus Nerve goes down the length of the body affecting, among other organs, the heart rate. Have you had any experience with Wallach's ideas about Afib. Success or failure. Thank you.

[Chinkoflight]

verywellhealth.com/vagus-ne....

This link gives a synopsis of the important nerve motorway (my term!) the vagus nerve is including its link to HR. An easy and very informative read. Thanks for prompting me to look this up. Who knew!!!!

[Pommerania78 in reply to Chinkoflight]

I really encourage everyone to study Wallach's theory about this. He thinks his theory causes ALL Afib. I don't know if that is the case (I don't know enough to say), but I think he is really on to something, as it is a fact that the Vagus Nerve controls heart rate and we can make Afib go away in an episode with what is known as the "Vagal Manuver". Even doctors recognize that. So the Vagus Nerve has SOMETHING at least to do with it. The Vagal "pinches" tend to get worse with age. According to Wallach this is connected with lessening cartlidge/arthritis/accidents, etc.

[mjames1]

I would be wary. He pushes a ton of vitamins/supplements on his website called "youngevity products". This alone gives me pause. As to the vagus/afib connection, it is well known, but I doubt buying his products is the answer.

Jim

[BenHall1]

Hi,

Never heard of him. I have however heard of Vagal Nerve and learned about it on this forums previous incarnation hosted by Yahoo, nearly 14 years ago. I researched the topic and decided to give the concept ago as I was getting symptoms similar to Coeliac Disease and IBS. Had bloods done - all clear. Consulted a Nutritionist and learned about different approaches to food and diet. Went gluten free, wheat free and oats free ...... and over time ... went heaps of other stuff free too.

Nowadays, I can't remember my last AF event, maybe 18 months, maybe even as long ago as 4 years. Still maintain diet but have found I have been able to return to some foods I abandoned 10 years or more ago.

A cautionary word though ....... AF arising from a 'dodgy' Vagal Nerve isn't common to every sufferer, or applicable to everyone. Also, just to cloud things, genetics can also come into play here too.

I often talk of the Vagal Nerve as an information superhighway running from the brain to both gut and heart, not forgetting a shedload of other organs too. It is well known in the context of the gut/heart connection. There are some interesting diagrams online showing schematic diagrams of the VN in the body.

[Pommerania78 in reply to BenHall1]

Could you tell me more about your change of diet? Thanks.

[MiniMeGreen]

rationalwiki.org/wiki/Joel_...

Our choice what to believe.

[goldey]

A couple years ago I saw an episode of a show that went right into an emergency room. a woman had really bad AFIB and was freaking out. They put her arms into containers of iced water, and the AFIB stopped right away. I always thought that worked because it shocked the nerves??

[secondtry in reply to goldey]

Yes I have done the same by gulping down a cold drink.

However, if I need to do it a second time it becomes mind games as the mind tells the stomach 'you know what happened last time, he's going to do it again' and prepares it. This simple procedure may therefore not work as well a second time. However it may still work if I drink a hot drink first closely followed by the cold one 🤔.

[Peony4575]

I think some AF is vagally mediated. I think a lot isn’t . Valsalva manoeuvre etc have no effect on mine. My first episode was because the prescribed NSAID I took inhibited the potassium channels in my heart causing an electrolyte imbalance which caused AF. Second episode was sugar and MSG. Quite a few people are genetically predisposed. My Dad had AF. My hairdressers wife started with AF in her early forties as did her mum and gran . Lots of medicines can trigger AF. I don’t think there is a single cause nor do I think there is a magic bullet that works for everyone . I think people can try and work out what triggers or exacerbates theirs and if prepared to do the work and be disciplined it may improve. Some peoples won’t improve whatever they do . I fainted in a very hot restaurant last year . A vasovagal episode. Didn’t cause AF though

[Pommerania78 in reply to Peony4575]

If your problem is caused by the Vagus Nerve, what then, do you think, caused THAT? I'm trying to learn as much as I can. Thanks.

[OldJane]

any simple theory is just that - a simplistic theory. If he also trades in supplements caveat emptor! Of course vagally triggered AF exists - EP told me mine had been but may not always be. My friend’s was caused by a faulty valve - replace valve, job done

[oscarfox49]

In the end you have to weigh up whether you believe thousands of skilled professionals who have been studying AF for decades with the latest medical research and science or instead a single individual who has an interesting theory which few professionals support. Of course, it has a great attraction to all those of us who don't want to really believe we have faults with our hearts or cardiology (that's probably all of us!)

However, if you end up believing the vagal nerve theory it won't do you any harm just as long as you continue to take your medication and to consult doctors and cardiologists as normal.

[Pommerania78 in reply to oscarfox49]

You have made excellent comments. But just remember Ignaz Semmelweis, the doctor in the 1800's, who urged the washing of hands for doctors who did operations or delivered babies, etc., but the medical establishment of the day said there was no connection between washing of hands and disease. Anyway, I do go to my cardiologist and take medicine, etc. However, I also do what I myself can, such as radically improving my diet, supplements and losing weight and trying to avoid stress, etc. Thanks again.

[oscarfox49 in reply to Pommerania78]

I know it is never sensible to be totally dismissive of any new idea but we are (hopefully) no longer in the 19th century when the basics of medical hygiene and practice were still to be discovered and it was possible for innovative pioneers to show everybody else the truth about what was really happening.

I think the fear today is that new drugs and procedures are introduced still very quickly if they seem to promise significant improvements and yet the side effects and downsides take far longer to discover.

Like you, the biggest change in my life since AF and my stroke has been in diet, supplements like magnesium and adopting a different attitude to life. I think most of my improvement has been due more to these things than to the pharmaceuticals I take (with the exception of anticoagulants which I hope will make a further stroke far less likely).

But there are also so many charlatans and fraudsters out there with products aimed at the chronically ill, I tend to group them all together; of course, that might mean dismissing a novel and effective new idea.

Seasons greetings,

[secondtry]

The Vagus Nerve is a key factor to address for me but of course it can't be the answer for all as we are so different. I am not sure I have the stamina to go down the particular rabbit hole you mention but thanks this Forum needs lots of innovative ideas.

[NewOne2023]

Sadly, no doctor of mine including my cardiologist mentioned to me to maybe try and stop my afib episode with cold water or vagus manevuer before gulping 3 propafenone tablets in one take as she told me.

I had to find out about these possible remedies for my episodes on the internet. And my last 2 episodes I literally stopped with vagus manevur in 2 seconds. Fore me it worked.

[Tomred in reply to NewOne2023]

Same here, no gp or ep ever told me anything useful regarding af but gave me 2 prescriptions and sent me on my way, and these only lessen symptons, not stop af, and on phone consultations when i asked to try something different, i was told , no, your on the best there is......

[2learn]

Hi, went to his site found it confusing and put atrial fibrilation into search field, said no results, so where did you get this info

[Pommerania78 in reply to 2learn]

He talked about (I think he is pretty much in retirement now) it a lot on his radio show in the past. I agree he doesn't give many specifics about WHAT to do, but I have followed his advice about diet, such as avoiding gluten and all the other bad foods, and I have lost lots of weight and my blood tests are a lot better.

[karrog]

Twice now (few years in between) I woke up with AF and immediately after my am bowel movement I was back in NSR. It was instantaneous!

Vagus nerve connection? I mentioned it to my EP who was noncommittal, like he had never heard of it.

[Pommerania78 in reply to karrog]

The Vagus Nerve is connected to the bowels and stomach. Many people who are having a heart attack think they need to do number 2. A friend of mine was that way. Elvis was having a heart attack and thought he had to do number 2. As you know, he died on the toilet stool. My cardiologist denied the Vagus Nerve had anything to do with Afib, but the Vagal Manuver proves that is incorrect.

[Quilter43]

I have heard of implication of vagus nerve but not solely cause.

[Pommerania78]

Yes, from my own limited knowledge and experience I am sure there are a number of causes for Afib and not just Vagal problems as Wallach says (but again I'm not sure), but we would be wrong not to consider it at least as ONE of the causes. Especially doctors. This is one of the reasons I am losing weight. Some doctors say that it will help Afib and it is something totally in my control. So, why not. I have also been more careful about HOW I sleep, etc., in case doing so helps my Vagus Nerve. Thanks for all the comments.

[Tomred]

Yes ive heard of dr wallach along with dr glidden and they have told me more about health than any gp ,ep, or xyzp , you need an open mind .

[Pommerania78]

I'm not sure I know dr. Glidden. Tell me more about him, please.

[Ppiman]

I spoke at length with a friendly cardiologist about the vagus nerve. He said it was a very unusual issue to cause AF and if it were pinched or compressed at all it would cause generalised issues as it innervates so many major organs apart from the heart. He said there would be initial severe bradycardia with swings of tachycardia along with much else.

Steve

[Pommerania78 in reply to Ppiman]

Did he say what he thought actually causes Afib? Thanks

[Ppiman in reply to Pommerania78]

He didn’t. He did say that he felt the internet and social media led to a lot of misinformation. Mine started with atrial flutter and, after my ablation for that, eventually started again but as AF. I imagine it’s some kind of general ageing process or inherited as my mother always complained of “palpitations”, but never was diagnosed with AF.

Steve

[Pommerania78 in reply to Ppiman]

You may have told in an earlier post, but what is your own "plan", such as lifestyle modifications and weight loss, etc. If you have already told me, please forgive. Lately I have been reading so many posts I can't remember who wrote what!

[Ppiman in reply to Pommerania78]

I'm a tall chap and apparently, that predisposes me to arrhythmias, but my weight is fine (well I wish I could lose half a stone). I also discovered that I have something called "left bundle branch block", which is another conduction-related problem and, because of that, I have to make sure my BP stays low to normal. It always has been, but I've been given losartan 100mg daily to make sure. Since March, I take 1.25mg bisoprolol daily, too, which might be why my AF has been keeping away (fingers crossed!). Mostly, these days, I get ectopic beats, sometimes so many that it feel just like AF. Otherwise, I was told to carry on as normal. I've tried various supplements but nothing makes any difference.

I don't think that a vagal manoeuvre can stop AF, only slow the heart rate by dampening down the adrenergic system. Meditation can achieve the same and slow breathing. I think my cardiologist was right, well - he was convinced himself. "Vagal AF" is a different thing completely, and I think that is what might be causing the confusion. That's a theoretical cause of AF in folk who arrhythmia starts when resting and contrasts with adrenergic AF which is when the arrhythmia starts with high emotion or stress.

Steve

[Pommerania78 in reply to Ppiman]

Thanks for your comments. If you don't mind I may ask you some other questions later. By the way, I take 50 mg. of Toprol every day. That is a Beta Blocker, in case you don't use the word Toprol where you live.

[Ppiman in reply to Pommerania78]

Do feel free to ask. Torpor is metoprolol, which is not the most used beta blocker over here in the UK. Our doctors tend to choose bisoprolol, first (Zebeta in the USA).

Steve