My heart seems super sensitive to eating/digestion, emotional extremes (happy or sad) and bending forward. Even post ablation I can still feel the sensitivity. My hormones also play a huge part in how sensitive my heart is.
I’ve read quite a few posts talking about the vagus nerve connection and feel like this might be quite relevant to me.
Can you do anything to improve or help your vagus nerve? Has anyone here been able to alter or improve their vagal tone, is that even possible. Are there any experts on the response of the vagus nerve and it’s affects on the body that I can read about? I hope these questions don’t come across as stupid, it seems like quite a technical area to me and I’m not that technical but I am really interested to know if the vagus nerve could be contributing to my problems and if I can do anything to reduce the sensitivity of it.
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Kellyjelly
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Five years ago or more you would not have many doctors accepting that vagal AF even existed. It is ony relatively recently that there has been some agreement on the part played by the vagus nerve.
Yes one can affect this nerve in many ways and of course avoiding foods which may upset it can also improve quality of life (QOL) .
I think it is also now accepted that IF your AF is vagally mediated then beta blockers are a bad idea as by slowing the body they actually make AF more likely. Generally speaking those with vagal AF experience events at night whilst sleeping (when the vagal tone is low) and can be affected by some foods but AF is AF and not everybody is can isolate any single thing which causes it.
I couldn’t tolerate beta blockers at all even half of the minimum dose made everything much worse so that’s interesting. I don’t have events in my sleep. I understand about not isolating any one thing, I know from my own experience that it is more likely a collection of things that induce my arrhythmias.
Hi kellyjelly how are you? I comment on your post a few weeks ago when you had your ablation done and got an episode of SVT afterwards hope you are better since than, with heart sensitivity issues I had an SVT in December and waiting for my ablation which is not until August, I’m on beta blockers but I feel every now and again I get this jolt/zap across the left side of my chest like my heart skips a beat or something it’s very scary just haven’t got a clue what it is and it’s been only happening since I have taken the beta blockers
I don't think I have events in my sleep apart from one time when I woke up at about 2 am and thought I was in afib. I felt "off" and started running to the loo every 5 minutes. But all the other episodes have come on after eating except the one after my surgery. There are websites that have tips on improving vagal tone. I have never tried the exercises but they might work. I recently bought an electric heatpad . It is quite large and I have been lying on my stomach on it so as to treat my knees and the tendons in my thighs which give me a lot of pain. Twice now I have had ectopics doing this though thankully it has not progressed to afib. I started to wonder if the heat on my abdomen was causing the vagus to relax.
On Monday night I was watching “Trust Me I’m a Doctor” (season 5 episode 2) and they had a story about a trial of implants that stimulate the vagus nerve which were being used to treat rheumatoid arthritis with great success. It was US research and the trial discussed was in Amsterdam. I know this has nothing to do with AF or arrhythmias but the research could have some positive implications for us down the track.
I have vagally mediated Lone PAF. My approach has been to exclude all areas of stress/potential stress for a few years until the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems get back into balance. Due to our lifestyles/habits it is difficult to notice that your nervous system is stuck on 'alert' and not returning to normal as it should after an event.
I'm exactly like you avma. My life has been nothing but stress & anxiety for years & you become trapped in a state of fight or flight & it's just so bad for us with AF. My main cause was a cantankerous 95 year old father whom nothing ever pleased but he passed away a month ago so I'm hoping I can finally settle down a bit & have some peace. Hopefully like secondtry says I'll be able to get back into some sort of balance. Good luck to you 😊
They all him it's just a different person he interviews each time. Ive listened to 5 or 6 so far. I can't say which one on stress would be best. I've listened to ones about gut biome, effects of food on our brains, one about importance of foot health and effect in back pain.
Just pick one and see if it appeals.
There was a new one listed today called "How to break the stress cycle." His guests in that one are a couple of doctors. I don't find I'm often stressed so for me controlling my breathing and simply slowing down if I'm rushing and trying to fit too much into my day helps.
Not simple. Everything gives me stress these days and then I immediately start to have etopics. It is as if it is out of my control. So I find it very hard to see a light in this dark tunnel.
Hi Kellyjelly,
It took me ages to establish my AF came from a dysfunctional vagal nerve. I simply aimed to calm the vagal nerve in order to calm the heart.
I did that by consulting a Nutritionist who advised me on diet and food plans and prescribed a course of probiotics and over time assisted by medication I have controlled my AF. In fact I have now had only one AF event, lasting 5 hours, since April 2015. That was in Feb 2018 when sleeping on my left side.
TBH, it is unlikely, even today that you'll find a GP, Cardio consultant or an EP who will acknowledge this issue (vagal nerve) much less be able to advise on it. there are exceptions but its a challenge finding them.
You'd be better off consulting a Nutritionist.
I might add, notwithstanding Bob's comments, I have been on beta blockers from the start and they have not interferred with my approach to vagal issues or my AF. They have held my heart rate at 65 making the diet approach more successful. AS I said, - only one AF event since April 2015. Draw your own conclusions.
If you can find CDreamers posts on here she has written much on this topic. More informed than me and better written - I'm only saying that what I've done has worked for me. but similar approaches have worked for others too. BTW - I have not had cardioversion and I refused to even entertain an ablation.
I might add that from the time I first felt unwell till I was diagnosed and treatment started in A & E was 9 hours. From what I read on here many many sufferers don't even get to that point in 9 weeks !! I think it is a matter that doesn't get enough attention - so vital to get a quick and accurate diagnosis. It certainly is vital in getting this monster controlled.
I always have that sensitive heart in all situations, I am always in a sort of stress feeling and even if something small happens, my heart will jump up and be a sort of irritated. If it’s something major, then bang the palpitations set in.
So if the vagus nerve is working all right would this also be the case?
I wonder if you can get improvement also with it if you have a form of svt and not only Afib? Or is this true for all kind of arrhythmias?
I think that’s a big one. I searched already for information on that matter but there is so much on the internet and also sometimes very vague, that after all the research I don’t know how to get the vagus nerve functioning normally again.
There are at least 3 different areas of your body that could affect the heart (assuming the heart structure is right).
1. The balance between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system, which the vagus nerve plays a part.
2. The electrical signals are generated by the movement if ions (charged particles) mainly between the calcium and potassium in your cells. This requires the right balance of electrolytes and this in turn requires your vitamins and minerals to be right and sufficient magnesium to orchastrate it all.
3. The cells within your heart to be working right. The Cardiologists/EPs are expert in the heart part, they generally believe that the heart should be able to cope with unbalance of the first 2 without causing arythmia. There are an increasing number who now do look at the other areas as there is strong, but to date circumstantial evidence to support it.
I have tried but still cannot get to the bottom of it, the question I ask is "does my heart react as it should to the stimulus it gets or is the stimulus normal and my heart reacts abnormally". My belief is that either or both could be true, different for us all, this would explain why different medication/suppliments/actions work for some and not others.
When I get/got SVT attacks I could revert within a few minutes by doing the 8, 7, 4 breathing technique which really does suggest it was vagaly initiated, however when the SVT morphed into something else like Aflutter I could not revert to NSR, to me this suggested it was caused by 1 of the other 2 culprits but who knows?
Your heart beats proportional to how your body needs the blood, low blood flow when asleep or at rest then high blood flow when active. This is controlled by the stimulus provided by your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system and actioned by the control of ions in your cells. Something wrong with either may cause the foci in your heart to react.
I also ask myself, (I have unifocal AT but located at a very unfortunate spot, near by the phrenic nerve and the sinus node) if the cells that don’t react like they should, can stop reacting and go silent again like the good cells of your heart if you would do some things like you describe or for example get rid of the stress you are having or are they ruined for ever or would they relocate to another spot in your heart and start again?
I don’t know. what I believe is that if you can find out what is causing it (for example shortage of magnesium or potassium or over active sympathetic nervous system or under active parasympathetic nervous system), then correct it, your heart will heal in most cases but it will take time. If the initial cause returns then the most susceptible foci will react first. Your heart is an incredible organ not just for what it does but it’s ability to fix itself and it this ability that can mislead us and the good Doctors. It’s design is such that if it senses that the SA node is not going to fire, a foci in the atria will fire and it is this interaction that can cause many an arrhythmia.
I think you’re right, but to get your sympathetic or para sympathetic nervous system under control, I really wouldn’t know how to do this. Do you have tips where I can find some exercises or other that I could do?
Sorry I do not know. What helps is breathing properly (slowly and deeply) and avoiding irritants like caffeine or alcohol, but these just touch the surface. I only wish someone with medical training in neurology could look more closely into it.
Yes the workings of our bodies are much more complex than anyone knows, even the specialist Doctors who spend there lives learning (and know much more than us in their field) have a way to go to understand the complexities and interactions of our bodies. What we can do is learn about the various reactions that people talk about on this site and try to make some sense of it all in the hope we strike it lucky and fumble upon an answer to our condition - its limited but its the best we have.
Hey, know what you mean about bending forward and yes my doctor mentioned the Vagal nerve and it being stretched, said he had a patient who went into an svt when shaving and tilting his head, this subject came up because I said no specialist seemed to believe me when I sad that I used to get an svt when I looked up, like in a supermarket looking at the top shelf of looking up at aircraft in the sky, or looking down when going down stairs.sounds stupid but I started trying to keep my eyes level, not turning quickly etc. So that I didn’t go into one.
Your post related to me in so many ways. I haven’t had an ablation but I think some of my AF episodes are connected to the vagus nerve. I agree with most of the comments made. I have been with a nutritionist for a couple of years and my episodes have reduced significantly. There are quite a few books on the vagus nerve for kindle. One I’ve read is Heal your vagus nerve, heal yourselves. The Valsalvar manoeuvre will bring me out of AF sometimes.
Beware of one exercise. Toning your vagus nerve by humming is good but it does promote marital disharmony when it becomes a habit.
Non spicy foods Kelly and magnesium taurate seemed to help me when I was suffering forget last year after food or acid type food or drinks. Hopefully its just temporary bumps after the ablation and your worrying to will make your tummy a little sensitive, I know mine is if I'm dressing.
I'm finding the same as you Kel, it's really hard these days I have always been pretty good at dealing with stress, but now if I have a row with my partner, or I am stressed I can feel my heart trying to go into SVT or AF, although the ablation obviously worked as it is only lasting a few seconds.
The other day I was talking at work about when I had a mini stroke and all of a sudden BOOM the SVT tried starting, so I have realised that I have become vagal sensitive if that is a thing, and like you I would love to know how to desensitise myself!
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