I know everybody complains about the lack of free health care in the US, however, I've seen a lot of posts from people on the NHS talking about very long waits for appointments with specialists and ablation procedures - sometime up to 2 years. I get health care through my employer in the US and selected a high-deductible plan with a lower monthly premium. When I started having frequent AFIB episodes in late July several years ago, I made an appointment with my family doctor. Over the next 3 months I was able to make appointments with and see my family doctor, a cardiologist, an electrophysiologist, I had appointments for a stress test, two CT scans, numerous ECGS, a Transesophageal Echocardiogram, and finally a Cryoablation procedure, all within a span of 3 months. My out of pocket expense for all of this was $6000. I know in the US we're always talking about trying to go to a national health care plan, however, from comments I've seen on this board I'm kind of worried what effect this will have on our healthcare access.
US Healthcare vs NHS: I know everybody... - Atrial Fibrillati...
US Healthcare vs NHS
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Please be reassured that our NHS is still wonderful. Yes like any business it has its problems, some waiting lists are long but if it’s urgent or a serious illness it’s the best & we’ve had staff strikes over pay this year. It’s not completely free, we pay national insurance to cover the cost & charity donations also help.
10yrs ago I went into heart failure, once diagnosed I had all the tests you’ve had, saw countless consultants & within months was referred for heart transplant assessment. After 2 weeks on the waiting list I had my transplant & the care I received and still do was outstanding. I see my consultant every 6 moths for a full mot, all of this for free….absolutely amazing care.
I’ve also have life threatening illnesses in the last two years & spent 5 months in hospital, during which I received the best care, surgery & medication to keep me alive through 5 bouts of sepsis due to acute pancreatitis, I was very lucky to survive. Ear infections, cardiac concerns, diabetes all dealt with quickly & no fuss.
My only moan about nhs care is with GP Primary care, there is around a 2 week wait to see a GP unless it’s urgent. The care when you get to see on is excellent, it’s just getting past the receptionist!
Unfortunately as it’s free the nhs deal with a lot of time wasters, people don’t turn up for appointments, don’t take drs advice & often don’t take medications, in some cases prescribed for free.
On the whole our nhs is still great healthcare.
I am mindful that the forum discourages politically motivated discussions but health care does affect us all. In my opinion, so much has changed since the NHS was conceived around 75 years ago. I guess it’s difficult for us poor mortals to understand what managing and controlling such a complex organisation which has to provide a diverse system of healthcare to close on 70,000,000 people.
Perhaps it would help in they made BobD the CEO, put JeanJeannie in charge of the Nurses and appointed CDreamer as head of Research and Development.
One things for sure, I don’t think they would demand to be paid the same as some of the salaries we are hearing about and would be more focused on getting the job done…….
Hi planetiowa,
I have had the experience of living for decades in Australia and in UK and so have experienced both healthcare systems. I have read your post and also Mrsvemb's post as well. I have to say I think the UK NHS healthcare system has totally collapsed and, BECAUSE IT HAS BECOME A POLITICAL FOOTBALL is worthy of only one thing ........... dismantling. It is beyond rotten ..... totally beyond rotten. There is hardly a week goes by when one doesn't read or hear or see in media criticisms of the NHS - and most of this is aimed at its management and structure. Recruitment is a massive problem ....... it's a topic which is never ever given the light of day .......... just how do you recruit people to become nurses, doctors, radiographers, therapists, audiologists, optical healthcare professionals etc. in a nationalised healthcare system. How do you recruit those same people into a private healthcare system. If school/college leavers in their late teens don't want to follow a career in the healthcare world..... what are you gonna do - press gang them ( 16th Century naval style) ? Recruitment is a much bigger problem than we understand.
I would prefer the Australian system ( probably closer to the USA system than is the UK version) where you have a universal healthcare system known as Medicare which has two streams, private and public. All taxpayers pay a Medicare levy which entitles them to basic public healthcare. However there is another stream - PRIVATE - which you can elect to use and you then have a range of Health Care Funds which you can pay into and claim back costs after a medical consultation. If there is a shortfall between the cost of a healthcare service and what a fund refunds to you then you can claim that ( with limits) back on your tax return. If I've got this wrong maybe our Australian Forum contributors would like to correct me.
But what should be noted in UK is that we do pay a levy known as National Insurance and this offers us public level health care. And we pay from when we start work as young folk to when we retire. In Britain there seems to be this national obsession of getting something for nothing .... you aren't - never have, its paid for to one degree or another. However, another point ........... the NHS by and large doesn't cover dental healthcare. ( I carry my own dental insurance for my 6 monthly consultations with my Dentist). That said though, there are NHS dentists .. if you can find one, and then, if you can get on their books. Dental healthcare in Britain is seriously neglected.
I thank goodness that at age 78 my healthcare afflictions are minimal and amount to a highly controlled AF, increasing pain from osteoarthritis in a range of joints, which has led to a right knee replacement. So far ! So, at this stage my only demands on the NHS are drugs for AF and pain relief ..... but hey that could change tomorrow.
John
I forgot, under my regime, you would be in charge of ambulances 😉😂👍
No worries sport ! You'd need to pay me more than say, £12.50 an hour as a bus driver with responsibility for safety for up to 109 peeps and a depot supervisor pulling in £15 an hour with responsibility for 40 or more buses and 50 or more drivers and scheduling them over an 18 hour day.
So, FJ .... what ya gonna pay me ? Be generous FJ - real generous 😂😂😂😂😂😂
This always is dependent on whether or not you can get healthcare in the US and exactly what it covers. My youngest son and his family live in the US and are lucky in that his wife is a nurse so they are - at present well covered. However, her sister-in-law who was a young hospital doctor was diagnosed with breast cancer and although covered for the treatment for breast cancer was not covered for side effects from the treatment. She had very bad side effects which resulted in prolonged illness and long hospital stays and had to pay out of pocket for this care and are now bankrupt and cannot get health insurance for her. I paid out of pocket for my own hip replacement and it ended up that I paid less than my son's American Mother-in-Law co-paid with her health insurance provider to have her treatment at a hospital near her with a surgeon she chose - not always possible with all the different healthcare insurances available apparently. Both her and her husband are University Professors so I can only imagine they had good health care insurance. When I had to be rushed into hospital on a visit back in the 1990's and got my son's neighbours to call an ambulance they asked for my credit/debit card before they even put me on the stretcher and a 2 mile drive to the hospital and day on a drip cost nearly £1,000. There are good and bad parts to both but personally having had the care I have had through the NHS I am so glad we have it. Don't forget you won't have to go down your national health service route you can still carry on with your private healthcare the same as we can and I sometimes do.
Another weird thing with the NHS is that my son's Father-in-Law broke his leg whilst visiting London from the US and availed himself of our health service including physio and paid nothing. Of course he thought it was marvellous!
Yes NHS is a political football and difficult to discuss without breaking forum guidelines. (You know who you are). Suffice to say that all parties have screwed it up over the last forty years and measures taken nearly thirty years ago are still bleeding the system of much needed cash.
What is important is that it is still free to all so even the poorest members of society can get the same treatment as the richest. As far as GP services go that is also a thirty year old problem since few are able to work more than a few days a week without pushing them into higher tax brackets and less total pay.
No it isn't prefect but still worth fighting for.
I think you have completely missed the point of a National Health Service. Health care is a complex issue and cannot be judged by whether one individual can or not gain access to the care they want. The problem of waiting lists = too many people waiting to see too few specialists and that problem exists the world over, especially Canada where in many States private healthcare is banned.
Health of a nation affects every person who lives in that nation. When only a percentage can access healthcare treatments for none critical conditions it means that many services essential to the health of whole population do not exist for instance - screening for infectious diseases such as TB, Flu, Measles, Polio (read your history of Polio in US it has not been eradicated) and vaccines, eligibility for which is means tested which UK did away with when the NHS was introduced because it was realised that without a co-ordinated, national healthcare system ‘free at the point of delivery’ would benefit everyone and make the country more productive. That part of the NHS still works very well indeed, as evidenced during COVID pandemic which put a huge stress on an already weakened system and staff because of years of underinvesting in infrastructure and technology.
AF is a relatively minor concern when viewed through the lens of Epidemiology, however, it seems as though there has been an increase in people with AF since COVID and since COVID vaccinations whilst at the same time a decrease in both UK and US in arrythmia specialists and indeed doctors in general. The UK NHS is Hemorrhaging staff following training and it is not all about the money, although there is a case IMHO for a very large wage increase for all NHS staff - unfortunately there is neither the political incentive nor the public will to pay for an effective healthcare system - and that is what it comes down to - money. If we want an effective system, we need to pay, one way or another. Personally I’d rather pay with my money than with my health but relatively few people in UK seem to agree (Forum members excluded). The result, in both UK and US, is failing and ageing health across population and medics with low esteem and in UK low pay. The only people who seem to gain are Pharmaceutical companies and Food Manufacturing companies who are making us all ill in the first place and those with shares in those companies.
What I believe you are talking about is difference between wants and needs. Every country needs a health-service - as to what that health-service provides and it’s efficacy is really what we should be talking about.
Health should NOT be a political issue, but in both UK and US as in every other country it is simply because it’s really expensive to provide for everyone therefore the better off need to pay proportionally more but they rarely do willingly and so become tax exiles or won’t vote for a party who is going to raise their taxes to pay for it so it never happens.
Anyone with money in UK can also access private healthcare in exactly the same way you describe, and if you need emergency, lifesaving treatment you will get it. I am lucky enough to also have private health insurance paid for by my old company, as do many of my family but have or in my case had, good jobs and intelligent enough to appreciate the value of our health also depends upon our prosperity and QOL so we take action.
The NHS is there for everyone but its priorities and resources tend to go to emergency and acute rather than chronic conditions. AF is a chronic condition. In chronic conditions we can be left to our own devices, generally once stable and thereafter access to specialities is somewhat a postcode lottery - but everyone in this country can always access healthcare, one way or another, and for that I am eternally grateful. I should say that 7/10 people in my family have or do work in NHS so I do know a little bit about it.
What we should also keep in mind is that many people write posts on this forum when newly diagnosed, very scared and without knowledge, which posts such as this although intellectually of interest, are not of any help to those who cannot access healthcare and cannot pay.
US has some of the best healthcare available in the world and certainly scores highly when assessing access to healthcare yet doesn’t get anywhere near the top ten in the world for outcomes as countries such as South Korea, Denmark, Spain, Japan, Taiwan, Austria, Australia, France, Belgium, Germany and UK all outperform US in internationally accepted criteria of grading Healthcare systems although it does depend who you read.
We live where we live and I don’t think that comparing really does any of us much good, especially on a forum such as this as people are naturally defensive about their own ‘brand’ so not good for the heart and individuals will have good and bad experiences in every system.
Glad you were able to get what you needed and hope it worked for you.
Just to add …. My EP commented that the apparent rise in AF diagnosis is also down to smart watches - a lot of people picking it up despite silent symptoms! The good news is we should start to see the incidence of stroke go down with many more individuals on anticoagulants!
That’s ‘only’£4,694 so not exactly what I’d call a small sum, and here you would get it ‘free at the point of use’.
I think that the NHS should have a list of what’s covered and what’s not - basic treatments such as hip replacements and cataracts, cancer treatment up to a point, and so on. People expect that if a treatment can be done, it should be done, but some new or ‘last options’ treatments cost huge sums. If people want to be covered for rare or extreme conditions they should be prepared to pay more lifelong. Apparently the NHS spends most money on treatment for people in the last three years of life, which brings me to the care system but won’t go there! There is also the question of self care - how much does obesity add to the bill? And smoking, drinking alcohol, reckless driving? If children’s teeth were well cared for by their parents and dentists/orthodontists and they continued the care themselves there wouldn’t be a dentistry crisis.
People have no idea what their treatment costs but as John says there are people who wouldn’t care whereas there are elderly people not asking for treatment when they should so as ‘not to burden the NHS’!
I don’t know what the answer is but we sure need one - fast. In the meantime maybe we need more posts like those from planetiowa to remind us that we could be being expected to pay a £4,000 excess on our treatment 😂
Well the NHS certainly has many problems, including long waiting lists, much wastage of resources, poor management and, of course, lack of money. As others have said the organisation is a political football and so it is difficult to resolve these issues. However, it is still well thought of by the public because it is good at dealing with acute issues and is free at the point of delivery.
The problems in the NHS are widely discussed and argued over, so they are not hidden. Many of them exist in other systems so are not unique to the NHS. An ageing population with increased life expectancy are causing problems everywhere.
Sadly any solutions are long term and pretty fundamental so not easy for politicians to address, even if they wanted to! In contrast I’m not sure the implications of the involvement of Private Equity’s take over and consolidation of health care services in the USA have been widely discussed or well understood.
In my mind the best recommendation for the NHS is that I have never felt that a doctor was viewing me more as a customer than a patient. In general, the incentives of the doctor and patient are well aligned.
It is usually the case that only politicians who are seen to be trusted on an issue can instigate fundamental reform so perhaps the next Labour government will grasp the nettle! We can but hope 😀
I have a feeling that our poor NHS will be, slowly but surely, made into a private health system because, in my own opinion it has been ruined and over subscribed. Our population is increasing beyond sensible and of course that means strain on all of our recourse including health care/education/housing and so on. When I was at work I took out private health care and had no difficulty whatsoever but as a retiree I can no longer afford it so I join the queues however I have to say that the care I have received when needed has been second to none but how long we keep the wonderful institution that was I just don't know.
The trouble with the NHS is that the government is underfunding it. Not only does funding need to rise with inflation but also even more because of an ageing population and more complex procedures being available. Add in the Covid backlog and naturally waiting lists are a mess.For my part, after my second hospital admission for afib I was seen by top heart hospital within three months. After another afib hospital admission I was ablated within two months (,would have been sooner but Covid paused everything. Twice after that I was having so many cardioversions that I was seen as emergency ablation within days.
Also the NHS spends a relatively small amount on admin costs according to a prog I listened to on this subject (BBC Briefing Room).
Good health x
The question of private over public health care is complicated. We know that government run institutions are not always well run or funded adequately and that private insurers put profits and stock value over patient care. I remember getting health insurance for my daughter before President Obama's plan outlawed prior condition denials. The insurance company was happy to take a thousand dollars a month premium for her and her husband and child, but would pay for nothing connected with the cancer and chemo she had had.
My wife and I pay about $1,300 a month for health insurance. If you can afford that, you can get very good insurance in America. Fewer and fewer can.
In the UK we also have companies which run healthcare schemes which are called Not for Profit organisations. They have a special status in the tax system and provide all sorts of healthcare. It is still expensive to get full cover, but my husband at 89 living with heart and cancer issues (both covered) would pay half of what you are quoting. That also includes access to Primary Healthcare.
My husband has had, completely free, a double knee replacement, treatment for a heart attack, followed some time later by a triple heart bypass, treatment for pneumonia, treatment for bowel cancer and is now undergoing treatment for heart failure and. oh, another bout of pneumonia. Not once have we ever felt let down by the NHS. The closing of the cottage hospitals was the biggest mistake of all. Lack of beds causes most of the problems we see.
Grandson was born with a swelling on his umbilical cord that might have involved some bowel. He was whisked off to a specialist hospital where they operated and found it was just the umbilical cord and removed it. He was in intensive care to recover and is now doing well back in the local maternity hospital. First class care.
My brother lives in the States and has good medical cover. He, however, will put up with ailments that need treatment because he has to pay for his initial consultation with a doctor. His wife died of breast cancer when her baby was just one year old. The lump was misdiagnosed as a blocked milk duct. Bad outcomes happen everywhere 
I don’t think the premis of this post is sound and I don’t think it belongs on this site it is too simplistic and potentially political.
That said - I have lived in the US and India under purely private and insurance systems and the NHS. Give me NHS any time.
The poster misses the point that for their £4000 I could also have access to private care on top of NHS.
Another long post makes the important wider points other than speed of access. I would add the trustworthiness of diagnosis and treatment if the medic is not personally benefiting. I also don’t have to worry that my neighbour/ family member / friend won’t go bankrupt over critical care, unlike a friend in the US when his wife had protracted cancer treatments.
I have a patch over an eye following NHS cataract surgery this week.
Health care isn’t just a delivery system to be measured on speed.
And yes our woeful inadequate government are responsible for depleting it as they would prefer a private system but dare not declare that.
It is hard for some Americans to grasp how our NHS came about and why we fight to keep it a national treasure of free health care at the point of delivery.
I’m retired now, but when I was working on quite a low income I wrote to my MP asking if the government could increase my tax by £10 a month to contribute more to the NHS which was then the pride of the world. A survey at the time showed nearly 70% of people would rather pay a bit more tax if it meant saving the NHS. Already it was obvious the NHS was being squeezed more and more - in particular by a political party intent on dismantling all public services.
Of course we can’t choose how much or how little tax we pay, I was just making a point but a few years down the line the creeping privatisation of the heath service is making a lot of millionaires richer and making it harder for those on low incomes to access services.
I think it is hard for some Americans to respect our NHS because they seem to think public ownership is a form of communism when really it’s just a system that helps us all look out for one another instead of putting ourselves first all the time. The NHS is fundamentally a good system but it does need huge resources and an unselfish approach to tax and national insurance to keep it developing.
Indeed - and aren't you lucky? It's not so much the NHS being at fault as the way it's been run over the past ten years or so, it seems, with massive political interference in is financing and management.
In the US, also, correct me if I am wrong, but such excellent treatment as you received isn't universally available, is it?
Steve
The NHS may have many problems because of underfunding and poor management etc, but we don't have thousands of people losing their homes or declaring bankruptcy for staying alive.I'd much rather keep it than go down the USA route.
I know that I would either be dead or homeless if we did.
Some numbers for you
Yes I agree, my nephew and his family have moved to Florida from here (UK) and he said even for a broken finger it’s all very quick and very thorough , their daughter was ill recently and he said how good the care was , so I can see where your coming from . My husband has been referred to an arrhythmia clinic for his AF after having a stroke and the wait is six weeks just to be seen, maybe longer .
Regards
Jackie
I campaigned against Thatcher trying to privatise the NHS and also today for many years with the latest tories.
It boils my blood, the NHS is wonderful. It has been deliberately under funded and this type of ' wondering ' is the result.
In my opinion lose it at your peril
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