Hi all, in a week or so I am going to be writing a saga but I’m saving it. In the meantime, just need your reactions to this. I went to my GP with a bowel problem combined with AF, certain they were linked and mentioned a couple of ‘elephant sat on my chest’ episodes, feeling they were probably linked to reflux or asthma but quite scary at the time. She decided to send me to the rapid access chest pain clinic where I arrived on Wednesday feeling like death warmed, very light and fuzzy headed. After the usual tests I saw a cardiologist who (short version) pronounced that the problem was my AF running at 120 which needed to be brought down and in spite of my ‘assumed asthma’ (quote from his letter) he wanted me to try it bisoprolol. I couldn’t refuse so went home with a prescription for 1.25 mg to be steadily increased at weekly intervals. Despite feeling nervous I took it and noticed nothing instead of a very slight fuzziness as I breathed. Next day my HR was back to normal AF speed 80 - 100 but I carried on. This morning I woke early and got the ‘fuzzy feeling’ much stronger. My asthma has been so good lately I’d forgotten where my Ventolin inhaler was so I took my combi early. Then I began to feel as though there was a ball in my chest trying to force itself up my throat. It’s not my usual asthma symptom but, feeling a bit panicked I took another dose of inhaler. As that helped a bit, another and another after which I felt much better though it won’t have been good for my heart rate.
My question is, does anyone recognise these symptoms? I don’t want to stop what’s intended to help my symptoms because I had a panic attack but I’m really frightened to take another dose. I think I’ll phone 111 later but I’d like to hear your thoughts (and get a bit of sympathy tbh!)
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Buffafly
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o horrible Buffafly!! No wonder you were afraid , normal reaction !!!! Sending vast amounts of sympathy!!!!!
I know exactly what you mean by elephant on chest thing. I do not have asthma. Heart surgery and PAF. So any discomfort in chest is « unsettling « . 111 always assume it is heart , you can’t take chances so off you go to A and E.
It took a lovely ENT dr to say « I think it is acid reflux / gerd . Take gaviscon (pantaprazole doesn’t work on me) three times a day and use two pillows . It has solved my problem. But you need check and reassurance !!
Bisoprolol made me SO ill within minutes of taking it . But everyone has different reactions. Hope you feel elephant free soon . L
so sorry to hear this Buffy. I just can’t tolerate beta blockers at all. End up with dozens of elephants trying to sit on me. I think you can take up to ten doses of Ventolin? But with I think, ten minute intervals. Don’t quote me on this…… I ended up with AF while in hospital recently, brought on by Covid, pneumonia and a mysterious bacterial infection. Next thing I knew, they were hooking me up to the old ECG machine then the IV fluids…..
I do hope you get sorted. Are you usually alright with bisoprolol?
Never had it before, cardiologist opinions have differed and last time one tried to make me take it my GP wasn’t happy, thought it could be dangerous for me and we agreed together I wouldn’t take it - cardiologist quite cross!
I have instructions re asthma dosage as I see a nurse every year though when you’re panicking you don’t tend to look at them.
I’m sorry you’ve been so ill but being in hospital already was quite handy! Best wishes ❤️🩹
I wasn’t already in hospital, it was a 999 job. The paramedics were wonderful. I’d collapsed at home, lost the use of my legs, speech all over the place, couldn’t remember how I’d got to bed……. We jumped the queue of waiting ambulances when we arrived at Musgrove. Quite frightening….
I can't take any beta blocker Butterfly. They floor me make me very ill, cause my heart to beat even faster.... Essentially they mess with my thyroid meds treatment (hypothyroidism) as they work by lowering the conversion rate of storage Ft4 to use able form Ft3. After three different ones doing the same thing they agreed to stay well clear of them. Bisprolol had me sat upright all night long as I struggled so much.... I did SO much distraction to get through the night.... Took 24,hrs for my heart to calm down. Never again..
Oh Buffafly, I’m so sorry That all sounds so stressful and worrying. And it doesn’t help that stress and worry can make those kind of symptoms worse, so we’re caught in a chicken-or-egg situation, not knowing where the cause is or what to trust as a solution. I feel for you.
I can’t say I’ve had exactly the same, but I do recognise those symptoms from occasions both in fast AF and in NSR. I too get asthma and I’ve been on Bisoprolol since AF diagnosis. I asked if I could have Nebivolol as some people on here have recommended for asthma sufferers - would it be worth you asking to be prescribed that instead?
My GP and cardiologist both said no to me swapping. I was told if bisoprolol was affecting me, I’d be getting a worsening of my traditional, recognisable asthma (wheezing, narrowing of the airways etc). I wasn’t aware of that, so GP and cardiologist say I was fine with it. I don’t know if that’s true though. If I were you I’d be asking to at least try an alternative?
I think with ‘elephant on the chest’ symptoms it’s always the right thing to get checked out immediately, to rule out an urgent condition. Once it’s been checked out and if it’s not as bad as that i find it harder to know - I’m always in two minds about the ‘fat cat on the chest’ which is how I describe mine- which has happened intermittently over the last 10 years or so and genuinely seems to have been either digestion related or asthma. But there’s always the worry it’s heart related, so I’m glad of any tests they give from time to time. (Eg chest x ray, echo, holter monitor.) If I was in fast AF when that happened though, I’d be getting it checked out without delay.
I don’t know what your asthma medication is, but I’ve been prescribed Montelukast for the last 12 months and it’s amazing how much better my breathing is. My asthma was already well controlled, no attacks, and I thought it was fine - but on montelukast the air feels easier to breathe and my chest feels lighter (no cats weighing me down!) I’ve also been able to avoid using my ventolin more - like you I find ventolin affects my heart rate and rhythm.
I find anxiety makes my breathing and chest symptoms worse… even my chest and upper back muscles tense up and that makes breathing worse. And also, after a few days of AF or laboured breathing, my chest (in terms of muscular skeletal) seems to be tired for a while, and all my breathing feels heavy and more difficult. It’s very hard to tell what is what, isn’t it?
Likewise I feel fuzzy headed after being in AF of 130 bpm for even a few days, so I can imagine you could still be feeling the effects of that?
Anyway there’s my thoughts, apologies for going on so long! Sending a big hug and tons of sympathy, Buffafly. Do let us know how you’re getting on. Jx
PS Just a thought- do you have a pulse oximeter to check your oxygen sats? I find it reassuring to check mine is ok when I’m wondering about my breathing or light headedness. X
Thank you Jane, it’s very interesting to hear different experiences and as you say, when you have more than one condition it’s very hard to sort out what is doing what especially if they are interlinked. I use a Duoresp inhaler which I can also use as emergency relief although I prefer to use Ventolin because I find it’s quicker. My asthma has been very well controlled recently. I don’t think I’m ever going to have really good breathing because my lungs are scarred from past infections picked up before I was diagnosed in middle age . I’m sure I had it as a child but my father was a bit strange and wouldn’t consult a doctor. He was well ahead of his time in being concerned about antibiotics but of course asthma doesn’t need them!
Oh I’m sorry about the scarring… that probably doesn’t help in knowing what is ‘normal’ either.
I was diagnosed in my teens after nearly dying of an asthma attack; I’d had several before that as a child but we didn’t know what it was. My parents didn’t recognise the symptoms or know it might be dangerous - and we definitely didn’t ‘trouble the doctor’ unless absolutely necessary!!! I feel very lucky to have survived - my guardian angel working overtime I think.
Yes I definitely recognise that "ball in the chest feeling " felt horrible, several visits to the doctor it was put down to gastric reflux/anxiety/asthma, after several months of complaining of SOB ,palpitations and chest discomfort my asthma nurse did an ecg and heart rate was 160 in af, send to hospital and very luckily had a cardioversion a few weeks ago. I really hope you start to feel better soon.
Have you and your doctors talked about or tried a rhythm control strategy or ablation?
It sounds like you're in constant afib? If so, some don't do as well a others, with simply rate control. Also, being in constant afib -- even if controlled --, can sometimes cause heart damage/failure. Hopefully, your doctors are ahead of the curve on this with periodic testing, including echo's.
I’ve had rhythm control and a very thorough ablation which only lasted 2 years. I’m not in constant AF (even though the cardiologist told me I was after only 10 days!) because today I’m back in ‘Unclassified’. I have been doing very well on a calcium channel blocker and a bp med until the hot weather, stress and a bowel inflammation got to me. I’ll give the full story in my saga after I’ve moved house!
Oh Buff - you really are going through it! Moving house when you are well is bad enough but when you are not well……. I do hope you have lots and lots of support and help.
I think you know my feelings on Biso and I have just refused to take it in hospital - that didn’t end well as the cardiologist refused to treat me. No loss as I then found someone who actually understood and listened.
Very sorry to read of your dramas and I hope something of a normal life returns to you soon.
Re the Bisoprolol thingy .... as a long term (13 years) user of Bisop at the 5 mg dose per day, taken at night, I do not recognise any of those symptoms. None at all.
However, I must say I am only dealing with a very highly controlled AF ( my last identifiable bout was at least 18 monthas ago - can't really remember when TBH) and pain control of ever increasing severe arthritic pain in a number of joints.
Not much help to you I'm afraid but I can only say it as it is. Hope you shake off these demons soon,
There is 2.5g of Ventolin in a nebule for a nebulizer. There is 0.1g of Ventolin (100mg) in a full Ventolin inhaler. At some stage on my journey with my asthmatic daughter, I was told, if necessary to empty the full Ventolin inhaler into her on the way to the hospital. This was after a child died from asthma in our city. I was put on the nebulizer recently and was very wary of increased heart rate, it raised it by about ten bmp, but then again I was on six steroids a day for a month as well and they definitely didn't help. Is it brain fog or laboured breathing that's fuzzy? I had awful brain fog, bradycardia and fatigue on Bisoprodol. Great for some people, not so good for others.
I stopped taking Bisoprolol about six years ago so cannot comment Buff, but if you are moving house etc., things must be pretty stressful and we all know what stress can do for AF and the bowels! Hope things settle soon, take care……
I have not had those symptoms,but just thought I would mention that I have mild asthma and was on a variety of inhalers. When I was diagnosed with PAF, the cardiologist took them all away from me with the exception of Symbicord (I think it's called Symbicort in other countries) and prescribed Biso. I take 1.25mg Biso and two puffs morning and evening of Symbicord. I have not had an Asthma attack since being on that regimen. If I feel I need it I can have extra puffs of Symbicord, (up to a maximum of 8 a day). The Cardio was anti the others because they raise the heart rate. That is his opinion .
I was on Symbicort 2 puffs a day plus extra if necessary but my surgery changed it to another (probably cheaper) inhaler with the same type of formula - works really well. I have a Ventolin inhaler for exceptional circumstances but it hardly ever gets used.
Really sorry to hear about this Buffafly. I was very happy to come off Bisoprolol due to side effects, but didn’t have any elephant related problems. I just wanted to send hugs. Gentle ones!
Sorry I can't help, Buffafly, in our household my husband is the asthmatic one and I am the one with AF. But the whole episode sounds very scary. I am back on Bisoprolol (very reluctantly too, I might add) but your side effects sound extreme. Downsizing and moving is extremely stressful, I do hope you have lots of help.
Maybe it's unrelated, but last autumn when my clematis was in full bloom by the side door, I developed the elephant-on-chest symptom with that lump-in-throat feeling you mentioned. Chest felt heavy and congested; I thought it was heart-related. It turned out to be an allergy symptom and was given Azelastine nasal spray (non-steroid) that cleared it up in no time. Any allergy triggers nearby?
Not new ones! I normally take an antihistamine every day but because I was having spells of nausea I didn’t mix the anti sickness antihistamine with the anti allergy one.
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That all sounds so stressful and worrying. And it doesn’t help that stress and worry can make those kind of symptoms worse, so we’re caught in a chicken-or-egg situation, not knowing where the cause is or what to trust as a solution. I feel for you.
Withdrawal from Bisoprolol help. 
The dreaded Amiodarone 
Bisoprolol 
BISOPROLOL to Verapamil 
