new medicine

[Giorgos1973]

good evening, I have written before about my problem, so about 5 years ago after various problems at work and health issues in my family, not mine, I started to feel pulses, the cardiologist prescribed me b blockers, I changed three so far bisoprolol nebivolol and now tenormin each had different side effects, the only one that was the same was depression, two weeks ago I made the decision to go to a psychiatrist, diagnosis of anxiety disorder with depressive episodes, he told me that b blockers make some people depressed not others everyone, and it was the cardiologist's fault that he told me to take it every day, so he wrote me escitalopram, he said in six months I won't need any medicine, now I would like to hear from you experiences, in other words I have to take an anti-depressant to cover the side effects from the other pill all opinions welcome thanks

[CDreamer]

I haven’t experienced this myself but I came across this in my practice as a psychotherapist a lot. Beta blockers are great at keeping BP stable & lowering heart rate but they also affect the autonomic nervous system and over time increase anxiety - especially when withdrawing from them - and anxiety and depression tend to be companions.

To be fair - if you had high heart rate then beta blockers would normally be cardiologist first line treatment.

[Giorgos1973 in reply to CDreamer]

thank you very kind reply, I never tried to stop b blockers, when I started taking bisoprolol 2.5mg at first I had no problem, after 6 months I started not feeling well, where I was an optimistic person I became the exact opposite, and a lot it brought me despair, and not being able to deal with difficult situations, and it made me more vulnerable to various phobias that I didn't have before, that is, I got various fears that I didn't have before, for some they are dishonorable pills, now I have to start escitalopram because I can't take it anymore how they make me feel sometimes i can't help my son with arithmetic i lose my concentration thanks again

[Ppiman]

I was given citalopram 12 years ago after several family tragedies caused anxiety and a weird kind of depression. I was told it would put me in cotton wool by my GP, who is a great guy. Well, I reacted very badly indeed to it and, instead of lessening the anxiety, it made me very much worse with insomnia, itching, a crazily irritating song stuck in my head 24-7 for many months, twitchiness, and more (including yawning, burping, and more). I was told to press on and these would go. After three months they were as bad as ever and I felt terrible so I stopped "cold turkey" and rapidly recovered, but some effects remained for maybe two years.

You can tell why I detest these SSRI drugs with a vengeance. Of course, most people get on better with them, but it didn't surprise me to read a recent study in which it was shown that the method of action regarding serotonin is utterly wrong and that they really don't know how (or if...) these drugs work.

There's a different non-SSRI drug called Zispin (a strong antihistamine called mirtazapine). It seems to be much safer and helps insomnia as well as anxiety and linked depression. You might ask about it if you don't get on with escitalopram. I tried it but it wasn't for me at all, either, making me feel zombie-like the next day but a friend takes it and finds it effective.

Steve

[Giorgos1973 in reply to Ppiman]

right, they are pills that work differently for everyone, I'm in a big dilemma, I don't want to fall into this hole, I have my wife who is on them, they are good, but they make her have no feelings,

[Ppiman in reply to Giorgos1973]

That is the main effect they have in others I have known. I wouldn't say "no" feelings, but somehow a deadened feeling to others and the world. For me, I think they are not good drugs, but others do seem to like them. In studies as I recall around 30-40% gain some benefit (but, interestingly in those studies, something over 30% also gained the same level of benefit even though they were taking a placebo / sugar pill, unbeknown to them). Overall, the SSRI drugs show only some benefit, as I recall.

I think the answer to depression and anxiety is not easy to find, but it won't be found in a pill packet. They can help sometimes, but often, time itself heals the mind, or "talking therapies" such as CBT, whether with a counsellor or even with with a mobile phone app.

Steve

[DawnTX in reply to Giorgos1973]

I fully understand your wife that is exactly how I am and even if I need to cry I cannot. The problem was without them I would cry 24 seven and I mean sob cry. The problem with not crying is your chest actually hurts and now with a fib it is worse. If you see tears in my eyes it is rare. I was always a well controlled person anyway so these pills seem to make me a robot

[Giorgos1973 in reply to DawnTX]

thank you for your reply, unfortunately it works differently for everyone, but I know people who have had incredible help, I hope you are well

[DawnTX in reply to Ppiman]

it just shows how different we all are. Citalopram was probably the best I ever took however three years ago I started feeling as though it was not doing its job and then finally without warning I had a meltdown and landed in the hospital. I had been on citalopram over 10 years without issue. I am on duloxetine now and lorazepam as needed. The second is for the very dark place that PTSD can bring me. Not woodI have not really needed it much although since having a fib there are times I have such horrendous nightmares and they stay with me when I wake up. I am about to have a new med try it on me so may be going off the ones I’ve been on since a fib started and that may be a good thing. That way I can see what may be making me this way. How can you not trigger a fib when you’re dealing with issues like these?

[Ppiman in reply to DawnTX]

Fingers crossed for you Dawn. PTSD is a dreadful thing.

Steve

[DawnTX in reply to Ppiman]

Thank you

[Auriculaire]

I think it is generally a bad idea to take a another drug to put right the bad side effects of one you are already taking. SSRIs have a poor foundation as Steve points out. Not only is there no proof that low serotonin in the brain causes depression or that that the depressed have lower serotonin than the not depressed , taking these drugs over the long term actually causes the brain to make less serotonin. Some people have a terrible time coming off anti depressants with all sorts of very unpleasant physical and mental symptoms. Some people are stuck on them because they cannot bear the withdrawal - my sister is one of these. What you should be looking at is if you really need the beta blocker ( again a very slow withdrawal is often necessary ) or if some other drug which does not cause depression can be substituted for it. Even a reduction in dose of the beta blocker might be a solution.

[Giorgos1973 in reply to Auriculaire]

Yes that's right I know people who took antidepressants that when they stopped they were worse than before they started, I have my wife, she takes a sedative at the same time to be ok, I have to think carefully, because I don't think it's right to take another pill for the paraactivities of the other, thank you very much, be well

[Ppiman in reply to Auriculaire]

You put it so very well.

Steve

[Buffafly]

There are other medications to achieve more or less the same (good) result. I take a calcium channel blocker plus a blood pressure medication (diltiazem and Candesartan) and it works for me. Are the ‘pulses’ that bad that you have to have medication? I would look for a second opinion. This situation can become what is known as a ‘cascade’ - my friend ended up on five or more different meds because her doctor would give her a medication and then another for the side effects. Eventually she realised what a mess she was in and was able to help herself mostly with lifestyle changes.

[Giorgos1973 in reply to Buffafly]

you are absolutely right maybe I will ask for a different pill once I also asked the cardiologist for diltiazem and he said it is not suitable for me now I can ask him for ivabradine something I have to do thanks