Vitamin D

'mornin' all,

I posted yesterday on this subject with the view to hopefully obtain some input from users of Vitamin D.

Frankly, I am blown away by all the responses, and the wide range of input you have all provided. not gonna have time to look at them all today as I have to go get my bus and drive all my college students home this afternoon. However, the weather forecast for Cornwall this weekend isn't encouraging so after I've got my 'Click and Collect groceries' and had my Covid and Flu jabs then I have a great time ahead of me considering all your comments. As I said, I'm blown away, possibly because I am not, and never have been a vitamin user. My Surgery Pharmacist suggested this aiming it at joints and bones with a particular reference to shoulders and associated muscles etc. Et al.

Y'know after nearly 13 years on this forum, including its forerunner hosted by Yahoo I have never ceased to be amazed at the value obtained by asking a simple question. As BobD has often said .... knowledge is power.

Thank you all for your comments to my original post.

John

[Singwell]

Missed the original so am glad to see you posted this. I take high potency VitD daily and suspect I'm suffering right now from the lack of sunlight. I also didn't know about the VitK2 so will.be looking into that. Such useful info about angle of sun and availability of oral sprays or gels. Must check these out.

[CDreamer in reply to Singwell]

I take as an oral spray at night.

[Gladstone001 in reply to CDreamer]

Me too...

[Auriculaire in reply to Singwell]

Sunlight is medicine! Not only does the UVB provoke vit D formation in our skin ,UVA provokes nitric oxide formation and infra red rays mitochondrial melatonin production. Sunlight also influences our circadian rhythm with morning exposure contributing to good sleep at night. The history of heliotherapy is very interesting.

[Singwell in reply to Auriculaire]

I get this totally! My mood on rising is noticeably different if the sun is shining. No sad lamp or amount of VitD can replace it. Living in a beautiful part of mid wales is lovely but sunlight is lacking too often. I suspect we will need to relocate in due course.

[Auriculaire in reply to Singwell]

I sleep badly when the weather is gloomy and want to take long naps during the day which does not arrange matters. I do not have this problem when the weather is good enough to eat breakfast on the kitchen balcony and then spend most of the day outside. Even in winter I wrap up and garden if it is sunny. Luckily here I can sunbathe in Feb or garden in a t shirt, if it is sunny and there is no wind.

[Dodie117 in reply to Auriculaire]

I think sunlight in the northern hemisphere provides little Vit D in winter so for most of us supplement are advised - especially as we age.

My GP had mine tested in the past and very low.

I also think there is a recommendation by NHS not to take the very high levels (often touted) as associated with falls - again in the older age groups.

[Auriculaire in reply to Dodie117]

Vit D supplementation should be guided by blood levels. Because there is so much variation of absorption in individuals it is a nonsense to say do not take very high levels if that is what is necessary to get your levels up to optimal. Most of the NHS advice on vit D is garbage. I prefer to follow that of the scientists who have actually spent their lives researching it. The northern hemisphere is a very large area and at latitudes as far north as the UK there is virtually no vit D to be got from the sun between late Sept and mid March. Prof Michael Holick one of the world's leading vit D researchers gives tables in his book ,"The Vitamin D Solution" for how long you need to spend in the sun ( minimally clothed) to make adequate vit D , taking into account , latitude , season, time of day and skin type. For latitudes north 50 -75 (London 51.5) there is no vit D to be had from sunbathing Oct to March.

[CDreamer]

I take 2 types of VitD taken at different times of day and after about 18 months on this regime am only just getting to the higher end of ‘normal’ range whereas my Lifestyle GP recommended a higher level. BUT you do need to control doses to avoid kidney stones so lower doses over long periods worked best for me.

[Singwell in reply to CDreamer]

I'd love to get my levels tested but i strongly suspect my GP won't entertain it. Struggling to get T3 tested along with blood sugar levels and cholesterol following my BS incident using the Zoe App. Turns out (results are in) both blood fats and sugar levels are in the 'poor' range (so-called norms for my age though lower than midline) but my.gut health is very good - just below excellent. That's satisfying because I've been working on gut health for over a year. So now to address these other factors.

[CDreamer in reply to Singwell]

I was OK with the sugar, hardly moved except for one hypo which dipped to 3.2 in the middle of the night??? Fats I can’t move through my system as I don’t have the magic bullet microbe. I was disappointed with my microbiome, on the edge of poor but evidently good for my age group. Cholesterol latest 5.2 for combined LDL. I’m not keen on their recipes I have to say and won’t be renewing my subscription.

[Singwell in reply to CDreamer]

I too lack the magic microbe! Ill be interested in their suggestions re food combining to avoid sugar spikes, also anything to assist with fat absorption. Haven't started that part of the programme yet. I think it's highly likely I'll be investing in a nutritionist before too long. But I'm glad I invested in the programme because at the very least I've learned about my blood sugar sensitivity.

[Hidden in reply to Singwell]

Singwell,

What programme are you referring to please?

John

[Singwell in reply to Hidden]

Hi and irene75359 am referring to the Zoe Programme where they assess your blood sugar and blood fat responses as well as your gut microbiome. They use their specialised muffin recipe as a control, then they analyse your blood sample using a neat finger prick test. You wear a blood sugar monitor for 2 weeks as part of the process. They then number crunch your results with their extensive database from a long-term study of identicial twins (quite a big data study) and give you customised advice on your results as to how you improve your findings.

It was via this testing process that I discovered a.Blood Sugar sensitivity. Its not free - under £400 I think for the 2 week testing process and 3 months further advice when you log your meals. It's paid or I'd post the link but you can easily google it under Zoe Project. A few of us here have done it or are doing it.

[Hidden in reply to Singwell]

Thanks for that Singwell.

John

[irene75359 in reply to Singwell]

Thankyou.

[irene75359 in reply to Singwell]

Can I ask what tests you had done please?

[waveylines in reply to CDreamer]

But doesnt adding the K2 in avoid this problem as its directed to the bones not organs?

I also missed the post but the Vitamin D Council has great advice on this if its not already been said! I would never rely on my GP for advice on vitamins or minerals.....they are not trained up on it and dont understand it.

My GP missed both my extremely poor vit D (only 3!!) And b12 levels. Correcting both has made a big difference to my well being. Infact when I told my GP I couldnt tolerate any direct sun any more due to a skin condition and asked if there would be any implications from avoiding the sun. I was told no it would be fine. How wrong were they.....I ended up with a major bone breaking in my leg due to lack of vit D. It was a specialist metabolic consultant who identified this issue and I had to take 300,000iu of vit D on several occassions under his supervision to correct it. I wouldnt recommend anyone else doing that!! Im now on a maintenace dose but top up each winter.

[CDreamer in reply to waveylines]

I think you are correct and which is why I’m using the oral spray which is D3 with K2. My VitD levels were on the very low end of the ‘normal’ range and I took 4000 iu without K2 and just after my Neurologist warned me, I developed kidney stones - very painful but thankfully passed without further issues. That’s when I started taking the oral spray with K2 and no more problems and improved levels. My latest diagnosis was osteoporosis but having tried one of the drugs, have decided not to continue so relying on Lifestyle and just learning about all of the huge complexities. The Bone Health Forum on HU is as informative as the AF forum and everyone very helpful.

I am both amazed and horrified about how little most doctors know about nutrition but pleased to see the Nutritank going from strength to strength. It was very strong in Devon but yet to see anything here in Sussex.

I love their latest tag line

Helping to fill the medical curricula gap through educating on nutrition and lifestyle medicine topics.

[SuziElley in reply to waveylines]

I was lucky, my GP checked my vitamin D levels after I had Covid and just wasn’t getting any energy. I was put on 400,000 units (four hundred thousand) for seven weeks. I’m now thinking I need to get him to check my levels again. Unfortunately I had a photo in reaction with furosemide so now have to be very careful in sunlight……

[Auriculaire in reply to waveylines]

Here in France loading doses of 200,000 - 400,000iu are given as a matter of course at the beginning of winter. I used to get this regularly with no problem of kidney stones. Studies have shown though that daily or weekly dosing is preferable to maintain a steady level. I found on this bolus dosing that my levels would decline too much too rapidly and by Feb I would be feeling awful. Now I have daily drops prescribed and I maintain a level of 70ng/mL year round. I do take vit K2 as I take a small calcium supplement.

[Ducky2003]

Didn't see the original post but I take Accrete D3 and have done for years, prescibed when my thyroid became underactive, following radioactive iodine treatment.

Even with that, and trying to spend time outdoors, my levels float around 50-52.

[Auriculaire in reply to Ducky2003]

If that is UK measurement in nmols/l you are deficient. The uk has recently ( at long last) raised it's sufficiency level from 50 nmol/l to 75 nmol/l which brings it in line with other European countries and the US.

[Ducky2003 in reply to Auriculaire]

Its hovered in the 50s for years but I also have parathyroid issues. As its a system that's on a feedback loop, I think increasing Vit D and or Calcium may impact on the parathyroid.

[Auriculaire in reply to Ducky2003]

My sister had a tumour on her parathyroid. When she was diagnosed her vit D was rock bottom and she was prescribed loading doses to bring it up . She felt much better as her memory issues had got so bad she was afraid she was getting early onset Alzheimers . She said the vit D treatment was like a miracle though it did not solve all the fatigue she also had. She had to wait for the op for that -10 months! There is no need to increase calcium when taking vit D . It simply improves absorption of the calcium taken in by the intestines. It is important to make sure that calcium is going into bones and not soft tissue.

[Autumn_Leaves]

it’s worth bearing in mind that supplements are not regulated like medicines. They are regulated as foods. The dosage on the container isn’t necessarily what you get in the tablet. I took 2000IU and my blood levels were lower than when I took 1000IU. Is it the amount in the tablet that is inaccurate? Or does the body have mechanisms for regulating what it absorbs from the digestive system? Supplements aren’t “natural”. We don’t take in large doses of vitamins from any food. If you can get your GP to order a blood test to find out your vitamin D status, it can give you useful information as to how much you are getting from the supplement. Taking doesn’t necessarily result in the result you’re after. I’m not the only one who has discovered this.

[Hidden in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

Many thanks ....... something for me to take into account while mulling over all the comments.

John

[ozziebob in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

Yes, "if" can be an added irritating obstacle to overcome for a suffering patient trying to track his own health deficiencies. "If" you can get your GP to test your Vitamin D blood level.

I was only tested, and a deficiency revealed, after my AF was finally accepted at my local Sugery when I visited during an AF event. Then followed 30 days of a loading dose double the NICE guidelines, then a daily maintenance dose.

But could I get retested to see if I was damaging myself, or alternatively, going nowhere? not where I live. The CCG insists I have to wait 6 months before they will restest Vitamin D. And my GP also had no knowledge of the possible links between AF and Vitamin D deficiency, and so questioned why I would want to be retested. Doh! I look for excuses for medical staff but it gets increasingly difficult.

Luckily the blood test will take place next Wednesday and I will know soon after. Then, sadly, another battle in 6 months time.

bob

[Ppiman]

I don't use the local buses as much as I should, but if I lived in Cornwall, I'd look out for the one you drive!

It looks a decent day down in Cornwall. We had a squally day yesterday to put it mildly.

Steve

[Hidden in reply to Ppiman]

Steve, I rarely use my local buses at all 😂😂

[Ppiman in reply to Hidden]

Like taking coals to Newcastle, I should think!

Steve