Oximeter HR Reading And Permanent Afib

[Malhouse]

Am unable to determine my heart rate using my oximeter as am on a permanent Afib. Oximeter values keep changing every second.I tried by adding the highest and lowest figures during one minute and divide the sum by 2. Is this reliable ? if not any other method pls.

[mjames1]

Unfortunately, your oximeter is not equipped to give you an accurate heart rate when in afib and the formula you mention will not work.

Most accurate method would be to take an ecg tracing. This can be done at the doctors office, or at home with a device like the Kardia or Apple Watch. Both will automatically calculate your heart rate in afib fairly accurately, however I double check from time to time by counting the number of QRS intervals on the ecg tracing and multiply by 2, if it's the standard 30-second strip.

Then there's old school where you simply count the number of pulse beats at the wrist or neck. Count each beat for 30 seconds and multiply by 2. Or, better yet, count for a full minute. Because the beats are irregular and may be faint, this may not work for everyone. But if the beats are strong enough not to miss any and your heart isn't beating too fast to make it difficult to count, it can be very accurate.

Jim

[Hidden]

My preference would be to take a blood pressure reading from a NICE endorsed BP monitor. You will get systolic/ diastolic and HR readings ..... if you get the correct bit of kit it will also tell you/ or confirm that you are in AF. Frankly, an Oximeter for the purpose you describe is a waste of time and effort.

[mjames1 in reply to Hidden]

Not familiar with NICE endorsement, but I have used various models of the highly rated and FDA approved Omron BP monitors in the States. I don't find them at all accurate when in afib for HR and while they have "irregular heart rate" detection, it's not afib detection per say. I would get that detection from simply ectopic beats. If you have a kit that detects afib, maybe you can supply us with the name. Thanks.

Jim

[Hidden in reply to mjames1]

Hi Jim,

NICE is a UK based organisation and the following link should provide some interesting comments.

nice.org.uk/researchrecomme...

Personally I use only 3 items of kit, each for its own specific purpose, however, as my paroxysmal AF ( asymptomatic) is now highly controlled with medication and diet I seldom use them or when I do it is because I want to draw my GP's attention to something.

Item 1 - I use Warfarin (Coumadin) and self test for my INR at home and also adjust my own doses of Warfarin if the need arises. Device is Coaguchek XS handheld device.

Item2 - Microlife Watch BP Home A - see NICE report.

Item 3 - Kardia 6L, again see NICE report.

In the normal run of things I use the Microlife first and get a reading - if it detects AF then I get onto the Kardia 6L for an ECG .... then my GP takes notice !. To be honest, its all very simple for me because these days what will set my heart off or even full blown AF is food. So my guts will tell me more than anything else.

Hope this helps.

John

[mjames1 in reply to Hidden]

Hi John, thanks for the link and information. The afib detection feature on the Microlife is a nice feature. Turns out Omron has similar, just not on the models I have tried. Glad you also have the Kardia 6L which will generate an ecg and also document things for your doctor. That's my go to device when I have an irregular rhythm.

Jim

[Hidden in reply to mjames1]

Hi Jim,

I should explain for the benefit of many readers that I place great store in my BP monitor, especially my Microlife.

The reason is for me now historic and up to a point life changing ............ it was my old Omron ( we are talking about pre 2010). I was diagnosed with paroxysmal AF in early January 2010. The first clue that I was having my "Apollo 13 moment" came from feeling unwell NOTHING CARDIAC !! just going down with 'flu. It was only when I took BP readings that I realised something was wrong - over some 8 or 9 hours my BP dropped from around 136/80 ish down to 76/50 is while my HR increased. Rang my GP who invited me to see him immediately. Made his own checks and assessments and sent me to A & E who put me in the cardiac unit and kept me there for 5 or 6 days.

Had I not had a BP monitor I would have felt it was flu and just done nothing - with who knows what consequences. End result was in 9 to 10 hours of thinking I had flu I was diagnosed with paroxysmal AF with tendencies to be asymptomatic.

I mentioned earlier that food will trigger an irregular HR or even AF the clues I can document are that the offending food causes my BP to misbehave and despite my BP medication it will cause it to rise dramatically.

I accept that what I've written is just me ......... I doubt that other folk are affected in this same way .... just another way of describing how I am and why I never neglect my BP monitor - to be used in conjunction with my Kardia 6L.

John

[gsd01 in reply to mjames1]

I would agree. Ive tried several blood pressure monitors None able to correctly give H.R. or blood pressure during A.F

[Mrsvemb]

I use a Kardia 6L for both AF detection and heart rate. I believe this is as accurate as you can get. My Omron BP monitor is useless when in AF for both BP and heart rate.

[Ppiman]

My friend has permanent AF and I was showing him my Kardia device the other day. It calculated his rate as 89bpm, which I suppose was an average over the 30 second reading. An Apple Watch gave the same information (and I think it is more practical and useful if you have an Apple phone already). This is a portion of the trace the Kardia gave:

Steve

ECG showing permanent AF from Kardia ECG device

[frazeej in reply to Ppiman]

From the Kardia ECG that you posted, are you able to differentiate A-flutter from A-fib? I see a few instances of a "sawtooth" instead of the P wave. In your opinion, is this significant, or just an A-fib "artifact?

[Ppiman]

Hi - I’m no expert on ECG analysis even though I’m trying to learn! If you know of a good guide please let me know as the Kardia is limited in what it can diagnose. I regularly get just “Sinus Rhythm with Wide QRS” reported, when clearly there’s been a run of ectopic beats and sometimes PVCs are reported when the trace doesn’t look like PVCs.

I suspect what my friend’s trace shows is a series of “p” waves arising from the atrium firing off rapidly, rather than atrial flutter. When I had AFl the doctor told me that a12-lead ECG was needed to show it well, and even then, I needed an injection of adenosine to stop the ventricles briefly (I think) to show the sawtooth pattern from the flutter.

Steve

[BlueINR]

My doctor has said pulse oximeters are not always reliable. Never heard of the idea of averaging them. If you're having afib, your pulse ox reading may well not be correct.

[Ducky2003]

Mine's useless when I'm in AF and I can't even check my pulse at my wrist as it's too erratic.My Fitbit does give readings quite similar to those on the hospital equipment for pulse rate but it's not the version with an ECG.