Atrial Flutter

[John3333333]

Does atrial flutter feel like sinus tachycardia or do beats feel weaker like atrial fibrillation (except regular)?

[Jalia]

I've never thought of any of the different arrythmias being stronger than the other except when going at a really fast rate. The only true way to identify atrial flutter is with an ecg not solely with the strength of the beat.

[John3333333 in reply to Jalia]

I've captured the rythmn on ecg, but continually get interference due to another symptom (trembling) when I take the tracing. I think I'm suffering sinus tachycardia whilst experiencing panic attacks, but can't rule out atrial flutter quite yet because of the interference before each P wave.

[Jalia in reply to John3333333]

I would leave that to your doctor to decide if it is troubling you alot. I've had a great deal of Atrial flutter over the years but much less so after ablation. It often used to follow a prolonged AF attack but also had prolonged very troublesome episodes.

[pablojack]

I only ever suffered from atrial flutter. When in flutter I was not aware of any abnormal sensation. When apparent via pulse measurement I was able to "concentrate" to reduce pulse to normal. When flutter became permanent "concentration" had no effect. Following cardio version pulse returned to "normal", albeit with bradycardia,

[John3333333 in reply to pablojack]

Did your atrial flutter come on without warning, or did you suffer any symptoms before an episode?

[pablojack in reply to John3333333]

My problem started with bradycardia after fairly intense exercise. HR would return to normal after an hour or so. Braydicardia then occurred after minimal exercise but would still return to normal. Then flutter appeared intermittently with bradycardia and normal HR at random every day. All without symptoms. HR varied between 46, 68 and 150. Then flutter became permanent at 150. At rest or during exercise.

Cardioversion worked first time but bradycardia remains though otherwise my heart responds to exercise in the normal way. The flutter {apparently} caused an enlarged heart and a slightly low EF but no symptoms. After a year my heart returned to normal size and normal EF. The flutter has not returned.

I was fortunate to have private insurance so I had a relatively quick response to the issues. Also with very good follow up from the NHS. These issues are so particular to the individual that only a cardiologist/EP can interpret your symptoms via ECG, heart monitor and MRI as appropriate.

[Turquoise19 in reply to pablojack]

Hi there Pablo, I am interested in what you say about your heart going back to normal size. I have an enlarged left atrial, after persistent AF in 2019.

I was told the enlargement wouldn't change. Then twitter and a 2nd ablation this year.

Hope did yours go back to normal size. I also had slightly low EF, last time it was measured

Thanks a lot

[pablojack in reply to Turquoise19]

In my case it was the ventricles that were enlarged, Particularly the left ventricle. I was prescribed candesartan as the "standard" prescription for low EF/ heart failure. After a one year follow up on the NHS I was surprised when the nurse told me that there was no sign of enlargement. Actually there is still slight enlargement which, I was told, goes along with bradycardia due to the spaces between the heart beats ( blood pressure drops further) Two different cardiologists told me, independently, that all my problems ( flutter, ectopics, enlarged heart) could have been caused by the arythmias. I believe this to be true.

My layman's conclusion is that you need to act quickly to get a diagnosis and appropriate treatment from an EP/ cardiologist. As you can see fro these posts there is a vast range of symptoms possible with arythmias and only a professional can prescribe the appropriate treatment.

[Turquoise19 in reply to pablojack]

Thanks very much Pablo, V encouraging the enlargement for you has reversed. My EP told me that mine may not now, even though I'd previously been told that it would reduce, once free of arrythmias. So not sure what this means. I have an enlarged left atrial, otherwise all is normal, apparently.

So I live in hope from your example !!

[Cat04]

Flutter as I understand it starts and stops abruptly. As Jalia says get your GP to confirm your diagnosis with an ECG.

Personally both flutter & fib feel the same intensity but with the afl being more rapid & regular.

[John3333333 in reply to Cat04]

Thanks for your response. I've had a few AFib attacks that start and stop abruptly, but this tachycardia I'm experiencing comes on in stages. I also have a host of symptoms, such as trembling, sense of dread, hot flushes, tingling in fingers on both hands. I'm fairly sure it isn't atrial flutter.

[Turquoise19 in reply to John3333333]

So do you think you also have ectopics V flutter?

[Turquoise19 in reply to Cat04]

Yes thanks Cat, that's how I found it too!

[Shcldavies]

It depends on the rate and how your heart is coping with it. In my case it was hardly noticeable when laying down but once you got up it made you feel faint and have to lay down again. Others are asymptomatic so no real guide sorry. Don't know if it makes a difference but Flecanide gave me flutter (I also think too high a dose of Bisoprolol but the doctors say no, My theory is that I would go into flutter occasionally after they increased my Bisoprolol to 7.5mg before I started om Flecanide but the Flecanide certainly made it worst). My advice is if your in flutter, get it fixed asap as your out of sync chambers does your heart no good, so if your doc offers you medication or a CV take it asap and pressurise your Doc for it (think a CV is the best way to stop it but it take up a lot of the medical staffs time). Do not leave it for more than a week at any cost.

[CDreamer]

In my experience Flutter alone feels very different from AF and indeed can feel like very fast tachycardia. You will need an ECG to know the difference and if you have a Kardia - that will pick it up. My EP taught me to recognise the difference between Flutter and Tachycardia and basically it’s the pattern on the ECG. Typically Flutter looks like the tooth’s on a saw and is called a saw tooth pattern. Horrible feeling and I empathise.

Flutter is much easier to ablate than AF and if left will often result in AF, so I was told.

[John3333333 in reply to CDreamer]

Muscle movement due to shaking makes it tough to record a legible tracing on a one lead Kardia, and my attacks last less than 5 min, so it might prove difficult to catch it at the hospital or on a 24 or 48 hr monitor.I'm fairly sure I'm having panic attacks (possibly sinus tach at 140 BPM) that come on for no obvious reason, but can't rule out atrial flutter entirely as the ECG has a sawtooth-type pattern due to the interference.

I have an appointment with my cardiologist in 5 weeks, and I'll discuss it with him.

[CDreamer in reply to John3333333]

Good move. I think it’s really hard to tell unless you have an ECG. Muscle tremors can be physical so good to keep an open mind. I did a recent post about internal tremors, no noticeable movement but feels like an earthquake internally.

[mjames1 in reply to John3333333]

Ask about a 2 week zio patch. It can always be repeated if you don't catch anything. You will get a good ecg tracing and the trembling should not be an issue as it's placed on your chest and designed for body movement.

Jim

[John3333333 in reply to mjames1]

Cheers. I'll definitely ask about the patch.

[javo123j]

Hi John. When I'm in sinus rhythm I have a really strong pulse which I can easily feel. When in afib I struggle to find the pulse and it's a lot weaker. I had ECG last week when in afib and it confirmed afib with rapid ventricular response

[John3333333 in reply to javo123j]

I've experienced a few AFib episodes and my pulse feels far weaker than NSR, too. I'm inclined to think that atrial flutter, or indeed any SVT, will also produce a weaker pulse (for me at least, I understand that others may experience the sensation of an arrhythmia differently).

[paulypurplepants]

Flutter for me was far far worse than AFib...It actually occurred a few times after my first CV and manifested itself as a sudden increase in HR from around 50bpm to 170bpm. I felt awful, until it just as suddenly reverted to normal sinus rhythm, sometimes after a few minutes, sometimes longer. I was only on 1.25mg of bisoprolol per day. Eventually this episode of flutter at 4am occurred after a stressy day with an alcoholic finish and it was awful....but then switched to AFib after 45mins, which then stayed until I had my second CV.

[Anon2023]

Hi. I had atrial flutter that lasted over 24 hours on two occasions with a constant heart rate of 150 which didn’t go up or down throughout the episodes. I was very much aware of it and could feel my heart beating very quickly. I had to go to A&E on both occasions to get back into nsr. The cardiologist said it was definitely atrial flutter. My husband, on the other hand, had afib which he described as an irregular beat. I don’t know if that’s the same for everyone.

[BlueINR]

I don't try to diagnose my own arrhythmias. I would suggest go to the ER (sorry I'm in US and forget what you call it) and get seen ASAP. Of call your cardiologist's office and ask if you can be seen today.

[Cookie24]

I have had both afib and currently flutter. Flutter bothers me more than afib. Constant awareness of heartbeat that feels like a flutter - bird flapping wings or maybe a mouse running around. Main symptom fatigue. It come on suddenly for no apparent reason. Since April 6, I have been in and out of flutter. Episodes vary 6, 8, 10, 12, 24, 36 hours. A few days here and there with no flutter even 3-4 days in a row. I wore a Zio patch that indicated 14% burden with flutter, sinus tachycardia, and that aflutter may be possible atrial tachycardia with variable block. Waiting for ablation #3. I have requested a cardioversion but EP said it will get me in sinus but won't keep me there. I need relief and I think it is worth a try. Already on Diltiazem and Propafenone.

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack your post...

[John3333333 in reply to Cookie24]

Good luck with the ablation for atrial flutter. From what I understand, CA procedures are often very successful for treating atrial flutter.

[Cookie24 in reply to John3333333]

Thank you.

[Hidden]

About 40 or 45 years ago. I AM 82 years old now, I asked my cardiologist at that time about the flutter? He told me not to worry about it. That was the beginning of my AF.Or they just didn't know that much about it. But that was the best advice I could get at that time. Because worrying about it would not have made a difference. I would have stopped smoking at that time. I can't say now what I would have done. But worrying about anything is about the most detrimental thing you can do to yourself.