Following the recent post where the GP has prescribed 20,000 iu of Vit D daily for 30 days, I would like to add something about AF and Vit D.
For years I had been taking a supplement of 500 iu but found out that I was deficient in September 2020. I had had an ablation three months before and during that time between July and September I didn't have a single attack of AF.
I'm assuming, therefore, that my deficiency didn't have any real effect on my AF.
However, I am feeling very well and I am putting that down to the high levels of Vit D in my body.
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Physalis
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Oh, come off it, it's the same thing. You can go out and sunbathe all summer and get a high Vit D level but I can't. I think it's done me good but I can't prove it.
I live in South Africa where we have plenty of sunshine although I love the warmth but hate sunbathing. I had a compression fracture of a vertebra and after a Dexa a scan it showed some of my bones to be osteoporotic. Blood tests showed my Vit D level insufficient, so I was prescribed one Calciferal tablet per week (a Vit D combination , prescription only) as soon as my levels became normal , my dose was reduced to one tab a month, as overdosing on Vit D is dangerous.
I was prescribed Colecalciferol 400unit/Calcium carbonate 1.5 mg chewable tablets for recently diagnosed Osteoporosis and instructed to take one tablet twice daily after a meal which I have been doing alongside a lot of other heart meds. Am somewhat concerned after reading your post, pusillanimous, that I may be overdosing. Would appreciate your views on this and anyone else who cares to comment. I know people on this forum are not medically trained but there is a lot of useful knowledge/experience here.
I am not sure if anyone replied to you, but rest assured, based on what I’ve read on many sites and on here, you will not be overdosing whatsoever on 400ui x2 daily of Vitamin D3. I was deficient and told to take 4000ui daily. I took that for 6 weeks then took 5000ui daily for another 6 weeks, then was re-tested. My levels have only increased to 83 nmo/L, (I was 28) but I’m now deemed as ‘sufficient’. I take another med which depletes vitamin D so it’s a bit if a guessing game, as I don’t know how much it’s taking from me. I’m going to carry on for now with the 5000ui daily until the sine shines a bit more, but I won’t go below 2000ui daily, when it does. I can’t comment on the calcium part of your prescription, as I don’t take additional calcium as part of my regime, but I’m sure your GP knows best for you,
You were prescribed your amount of Vitamin D3 from your GP and hopefully you should get a retest 3 months after you started this regime to find out where your new levels have reached? If not I suggest you could ask for one.
Thank you for your reply, Theresa. I was prescribed the ADCAL for osteoporosis. I am not aware that my vit D levels have been checked although I had full bloods done a while ago but my surgery never seem to want to tell me the results. If they are ‘normal’ I just get told that. I did get a text a while ago telling me that the amount of Riveroxaban I take was being reduced from 20mg to 15mg but no explanation as to why. I have asked for a copy of the report before today but I don’t know how to interpret them myself. Just getting a GP appointment is an accomplishment in itself nowadays. I do get regular 3 monthly kidney function tests because of other meds I am on if I remember to make the appointment myself. However, 3monthly vit D levels has not been mentioned. One issue is the lack of continuity, seeing different GP’s and having to remember everything I want to talk about in the short session. I do make a list and I have been told I need to book a double appointment if I want to discuss more than one issue but it is hard enough to get any appointment never mind a double one.
Now I know a bit more background, a much higher dose of vitamin D is only prescribed if you are insufficient or deficient. In your case, yours is for your osteoporosis where I think Vitamin D is prescribed alongside calcium to aid absorption of the calcium, though I’m not an expert of course. 400iu x2 a day isn’t a high dose and it maybe what they suggest for maintenance based on your results? Now I know you aren’t necessarily deficient in Vit D, the likelihood is that your Vitamin D levels weren’t tested via your past blood test. They don’t generally test Vitamin D levels as a routine it’s only if you have symptoms, or take medication that depletes it, as far as I’m aware. In my case, I requested it due to my medication and probably should have been tested for deficiency well before now due to the other medication.
I sympathise with not knowing your blood test results….in my case, it’s never my Surgery that lets me know, I look at my results on line. We have an app that we can access and all my medical records are on it including up and coming appointments. It’s not an app that is just specific to my surgery either, it’s a general app that you can download from the place you get apps. (The one is use is called Airmid UK) The surgery gave me a password and pin a long time ago when I joined them. If I didn’t have this app and be able to see my results, I’d be the same as you and not know.
I’ve also got the NHS app loaded but that’s not as detailed as this, however it does have some hospital history on it.
Please rest assured you aren’t overdosing, even on 800iu a day and your GP has prescribed that amount for a specific reason. You probably won’t get tested for vitamin D in a few months, but it sounds like you will probably get a retest at some point to check if the calcium is working for your osteoporosis. If you don’t hear anything, it would probably be best to chase that up in a month or so.
My surgery is the same as yours though in booking appointments- it’s a nightmare.
Thanks again, Theresa. I have been taking a vit D supplement for quite a few years now so I am probably not deficient but I wasn’t previously taking it with calcium. My practice started us off with the Patient Access app then they changed to the My GP app and now we seem to be using the NHS app. It is hard to keep up. However, although my meds are on and my immunisations and I can order my repeat prescriptions there does not seem to be any medical information so far so I hope we get it soon as I know that other practices are doing this like yours.
Overdosing on vitamin D itself isn’t very likely - some people regularly take 10,000 iu a day. It’s when you take it combined with calcium that’s the problem.
The NHS almost invariably hands out the combined dose. To get higher D3 you would have to up the calcium, as I think you only get 500iu Vit D3 in that combination. Overdosing in calcium can cause a heart attack. This is why they say D3 is dangerous. In addition, to ensure calcium is used for building bone density rather than getting involved with the heart, you need to take K2.
I’ve investigated this in detail as I take prednisolone which depletes bone density, so I have read academic papers to find out the truth. I even set up a blog 🤣
Old skin does not make vit D efficiently. A 70 year old skin only makes a third of what a twenty year old skin makes. In order to make enough during the "window" of April to September in order to have sufficient stocks for the following winter one would have to do a lot of whole body sunbathing. How many people can do that? Arms and face just will not do the job.
I wondered where you had got to. You said sometime ago that you have large vit D injections of calcidefiol. What do you think of someone being given 20,000 iu capsules daily for 30 days?
BTW heard yesterday that my hip operations will be on 7 June.
No - I have never had vit D injections. My prescribed supplement of Calcifediol is in drops . I take 3 drops a day. I have been given large loading doses of 400,000 iu of cholecalciferol to take in a single ampoule. With no ill effects. My sister had a supplementation in the uk of I think 100,000iu a week for a month to get her levels up. I don't think 20,000iu a day for a month will do any harm. Vit D researchers throughout the world have experimented with very high daily doses like that for months on end . Toxicity sets in eventually but after many months and toxicity is rarely encountered with blood levels under 150ng/ml.
That's interesting to hear Physalis, I too take vitamin D at a dose of 2000iu. Recently I've been adding 60ug of vitamin K, but am considering dropping that and reducing my vitamin D dose now that the sunshine is back. My AF is always a lot better during the summer months.
As I said in an earlier post my DEXA scan showed I am on the border between osteopenia and osteoporosis which is not bad considering my age and I haven't been taking a vit K supplement.
I think you are right to consider cutting the vitamin D; government advice is to take a supplement during Autumn and Winter. The NHS website says "Taking too many vitamin D supplements over a long period of time can cause too much calcium to build up in tthe body... This can weaken the bones and damage the kidneys and the heart. If you choose to take vitamin D supplements, 10 micrograms a day will be enough for most people." I've been taking a high dose supplement, and am going to cut that back to a low dose. It's believed that vitamin D offers some protection against Covid, but it has not been firmly established:nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-...
The government advice is nonsense and goes against that of the main vit D researchers. Vit D should be dosed on an individual basis and follow a blood test. This is because there is an enormous difference in the absorption of vit D between individuals so that any one size fits all prescription of 10 mcg will leave many if not most people deficient - especially women . Their larger percentage of body fat means they need more. As for the correlation between vit D levels and covid outcomes - they have been firmly established. Look at the most recent Israeli research . I am not the only person on this forum who was diagnosed with a vitamin D deficiency ( severe) after following the UK government advice for years as well as eating oily fish several times a week and living in a part of France that gets way more sun than the UK does. Luckily doctors here are better advised and will give proper supplementation. The UK level for what is sufficient is also abysmally low. The info on page you link to is outdated and inadequate referring only to musculoskeletal affects of vit D. There is no exploring of the crucial effect of vit D on the immune system in general and it's importance in respiratory infections in particular - research done long before the advent of covid.
Yes, I believe 10 mcg is too low and should be updated. Tesco are now selling 25 mcg or 1000 iu tablets which they weren't before. I just bought a bottle of drops, took about 3000 iu a day and it's worked out ok because my level is now 152 nmol/L. Now I've just got to try again to convince my daughter.
That's a great level and one which you would never achieve on a measly the 400iu a day. Somewhere in my downloads I have a paper which explains how an error in the mathmatical calculations decades ago means that the recommended vit D daily doses are out by a factor of ten.
2000iu is a low dose Jean . Remember older skin makes vit D less efficiently. Why don't you get your levels tested before dropping the dose? With covid still around a drop in levels is not a good idea.
Many years ago I stared taking Vit K. Within days it had a disastrous effect on my peripheral circulation - deathly white, tingling fingers and toes. Never again!
Thank you, your link confirms that I may be getting enough vitamin K. I'd read somewhere that vitamin D can cause a build up, think it was in our veins, or arteries and vitamin K prevented that from happening.
Don’t forget that it’s Vit K2 that directs calcium out of the bloodstream and into the bones. Vit K1 is involved in blood clotting and can interfere with wafarin levels if not part of your regular diet. Sorry, I’m sure you’re aware of that already but just in case others reading this thread aren’t.
The main problem is if you are taking large amounts of calcium supplements. In the 80s and 90s women were encouraged to take this to prevent osteoporosis and there was nearly always vit D in the supplements. Some research showed that this was causing artery calcification. Vit K2 which is responsible for putting calcium where it belongs is made in our guts by bacteria as well as present in certain foods.
I was very unwell in 2012 and was diagnosed with low D. I have taken vitamin D supplements 5000-10000 iu everyday ever since and I sit in the sunshine when I can. I rarely have any health problems anymore. I also take a handful of other supplements that I believe keep me off of medications as I am pretty healthy but have general aging happening that I am trying my best to defeat as long as possible. I firmly believe in supplementing what our bodies are not getting enough of.
I agree. I certainly see no difference with my AFib and the 2000 Units of vitamin D I take. But, oh what a difference it has made with my bone density. Every woman past menopause should be on vitamin D. And test their levels yearly.
I hope you don’t mind, but please can you point me to the post where a GP prescribed that dose for someone who was deficient? It’s particularly pertinent to me, as in mid Jan this year, I was found to be deficient in Vitamin D. My levels were 28 nmo/L. I only managed to get tested, as I specifically requested it as I had an inkling I could be low. I’d experienced a lot of the symptoms. I also take another medication which I’d read can leech Vit D out of the body and it seems a generally ‘known’ phenomenon which I had hoped my GP would have known, but I don’t think he did 😳 he was so laid back about it and obviously knows I have Afib ( paroxysmal at the moment). I’d already bought a pack of 4000 iu vitamin D3 capsules and he said said that I should take one a day only for three months then get tested again. (I have actually sneakily been taking an extra 1000 iu daily for past 6 weeks without him knowing)
I’ve got my retest booked for this week. I’d previously mentioned this on an older post and Auriculaire was very helpful and enlightened me on a few areas of vitamin D. It’s all a bit of a guessing game until I get retested. Auriculaire helpfully suggested getting an on line blood test about 6 weeks ago to see if I was on the right track. It arrived and I couldn’t face doing it though 😳they wanted at least a teaspoon of blood! I just couldn’t lol.
I just can’t help wondering if I should have been on a higher daily dose, or had a loading dose given to me first….some of my symptoms have improved, but they haven’t gone completely…oh well, I’ll know in a few days!
It's this one from five days ago 'Aetiology of AF and Vitamin D deficiency ? Are they related?'
I was similarly deficient and that was when I started taking about 3000 iu a day. Now I'm up to 152 nmol/L My blood test form said that 75 - 200 was optimal.
I'm not sure that the symptoms are as obvious as you think. I feel that what you have been doing should be just fine and will have brought your levels up. From my experience, taking 3000 iu a day for quite a long time hasn't done me any harm. Taking 1000 iu a day from now on seems like a good way for you to go.
Rightly or wrongly, I felt that 20,000 iu a day for 30 days sounded too high when the box said take one a fortnight.
Hi,I have just got my vitamin D re test results back which was really quick as I only had it done two days ago. So I was 28 nmo/L and I’m now 83 nmo/L, which is a relief 😊. I do feel better., but I want to increase it a bit more if I can now. So that’s 3 months - of 6 weeks taking 4000iu a day and past 6 weeks 5000iu a day. If I’d stayed on what I was supposed to at 4000iu, I may not have made it to 75 even. I’m going to carry on with the 4000iu until the sun comes out properly and then reduce to 2000iu and then come Oct, I’ll go back to 4000iu I think.
I take a drug that depletes vitamin D so probably should take more than is generally recommended as maintenance.
Reading your post is incredible as just yesterday I met a woman who told me how wonderful extra vitamin D had been for her and I was wondering about trying it. Your post must be a confirmation sign so I’ll definitely look into trying it out. Thank you, Physalis
I have only just noticed your concerns re the loading dose I was prescribed, 20000iu per day for 30 days.
I can report I had no issues with that dosage, and within about 7 months my level had risen from 22--->112 nmol/ L. My maintenance dose after the first 30 days was 3000iu per day. I am overdue now to have my level retested, but am not concerned if if my level goes even higher, as all research is still positive re higher levels.
You might be interested in this research paper which administered daily doses of 5000--->50000iu of Vitamin D, without any negative results.
I'm glad you got on alright. I think a day in the sun can produce very high levels of vit D. I'm just taking 2000 iu a day and feeling fine. I've just had two hip replacements and I was thinking of emailing the surgeon and suggesting that my high levels might be the reason I experienced no pain.
On second thoughts, you get vit D from sunlight straight. It doesn't need to be converted. However, from supplements, cholecalciferol needs to be converted by the liver to calcifediol. How easy is it for the liver to convert a very large dose?
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