Vaccines and AF: I have just spoken to one of... - AF Association

AF Association

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Vaccines and AF

Samazeuilh
Samazeuilh

I have just spoken to one of the nurses at BHP and she told me they had had reports from the government that both the Pfizer and AZ vaccines often produced arrhythmias as a side effect (in fact it was one of the the most common side effects). She suggested it might get worse over the 2-3 weeks the vaccine was building up efficacy. They *expected* (but could not guarantee) that things would settle down. This information should have been given to patients before the vaccination imo. Local cardiac nurses told me that even some of the staff had had heart symptoms after the vaccine.

221 Replies

Oh great, now I'm seriously thinking about not having it 🤦🏻‍♀️

BobD
BobDVolunteer in reply to bantam12

That might not be wise. The real deal would be far worse and your chance of getting that far higher than any slight side effects,.

This thing is never going away as we know and we need to learn to live with it and limit it's affect.

bantam12
bantam12 in reply to BobD

The problem is they may not be " slight side effects" there are so many people reporting a multitude of problems and not all are just a couple of days of feeling rubbish. Apart from heart probs I have multiple autoimmune syndrome so I could ( and know I may not) be hit really hard with long term consequences. I have taken advice and will (if I do have it) increase all my meds beforehand to hopefully prevent anything kicking off !

BobD
BobDVolunteer in reply to bantam12

I read an ineresting article today about the impossibilty of zero covid. It took twenty or thirty years to eliminate smallpox virus which was made easier because it was an obvious condition and needed no testing to see who did or did not have it which is the exact opposite of covid19..

The best chance we have of any kind of normal life again is that treatments may reduce the severity to something nearer normal flu levels of illness which sadly still means many death each winter.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to BobD

There are treatments but they are not being used by health systems in first world countries . In countries that are less well off like India the anti parasitic drug Ivermectin is being used with success. This is cheap, safe ( has been used for donkey's years) and easily available. The second Calcifediol trial has just reported from Barcelona. This trial is much larger than the Cordoba one and the vit D levels of the patients were taken before treatment began giving more info. Again the use of Calcifediol was successful in stopping many patients proceeding to ICU. The measuring of levels on admission to hospital again showed that those patients who died despite Calcifediol treatment had much lower baseline leveks of vit D than those who survived. Why are these treatments not being trialled extensively in the UK ? Is NICE again going to close its eyes to this and parrot " not enough evidence" . The variants that will continue to arise will mean that vaccines are not the total answer - and how many times were we told before they were ready that the vaccines would be the way out? This was a lie. If the government is following the science as they say then any virologist could have told them that variants were going to arise and that they would arise quicker than the vaccines could keep up and people would continue to die - just like flu .Instead of putting all their eggs in one basket they should be extensively trialling these cheap and safe treatments.

Niki_
Niki_ in reply to Auriculaire

Thank you for saying this! So true!

Our government are recommending Vit D and suppling tablets to those in the high risk category. A friend received hers by post last week.

Too little too late. I very much doubt they will be supplementing at a rate above that recommended by SACN - ie 400iu a day. This level of supplementation is for prevention of rickets and osteomalacia and is supposed to ensure that one does not become deficient by UK measurements ie fall below a blood level of 10ng/mL. All the studies that have been done in various countries throughout the world show clearly that in order to reinforce the immune system to a level where covid outcomes are more benign a level of above 30ng/mL ( the level for sufficiency in most of Europe) is necessary. So if the government are only dishing out 400iu a day that will not cut it. Also supplementation should have been started in October . People who have been shielding and not leaving their homes at all over last summer will have virtually no vit D if they have not been supplementing. Here in France loading doses of 200,000iu or even 400,000 iu are given in the late autumn to up the vit D level quickly for people who are deficient. If you are deficient in October you will be even more deficient in Feb! Then lower maintenance doses can be used.

Goldfish7
Goldfish7 in reply to BobD

I believe the last major Covid outbreak MERS-SARS (I think) which mainly affected people in arab countries in 2012. Whilst initially very severe and leading to a number of deaths it actually mutated to become far less dangerous and more or less wiped itself out in human populations. Obviously this doesnt mean that Covid 19 will mutate so helpfully but it may. My main concern would be that we will continue decimating the natural world leading to an increasing number of dangerous diseases crossing the species gap. Possibly natures way of stopping the human 'parasite' that is destroying the world.

BobD
BobDVolunteer in reply to Goldfish7

My thoughts exactly Goldfish. I did put something similar in a previous post but decided to delete it before publishing as I thought people would object to being called a problem. I do think Mother Earth will continue to try to protect herself until we learn not to assume we have the right to destroy her. Thank you for your candour.

Very well put. We are to blame for the Covid virus because of our inhumane treatment of animals. Humans are the worse animal on the planet. We have caused so many disasters to do with the natural world. Lets hope all that changes.

Niki_
Niki_ in reply to Goldfish7

Also our bodies are designed that we are supposed to catch viruses and build natural immunity.. natural viruses build our immune system! That’s why you’re supposed to let your kids pick their nose and play in the dirt. by trying to constantly protect ourselves from these viruses it makes us weaker and unable to handle basic viruses.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to Niki_

Absolutely. There is far too much cleanliness about. I deliberately eat a snack of nuts or a banana when I come in from the garden without washing my hands so as to ingest soil bacteria. Our modern lives - sanitising everything in sight and spending far too much time indoors - contribute to weaker immune systems and ill health. Vaccinations for childhood diseases have saved children's lives but have also ensured that those children who would have died live to pass on their less robust genes. This is one of the paradoxes of modern medicine. There are scientists who have put forward the hypothesis that childhood infectious diseases like measles and chickenpox prime the immune system so as to protect against cancers later in life and that by vaccinating for these diseases ( which had a very low rate of morbidity and mortality in western countries before MMR was introduced) we interfere with this. Swings and roundabouts.

tunybgur
tunybgur in reply to Goldfish7

Don't get me started on this! Just finished watching 'A Perfect Planet' and similar programs agonising over the damage we are doing to this planet....all of them preaching about fossil fuels, conspicuous consumption etc. etc.....but all avoiding the elephant in the room....uncontrolled population growth! Until we address this fundamental issue we are destined to consume ourselves into oblivion, the Planet will have the last word.

Goldfish7
Goldfish7 in reply to tunybgur

Couldnt agree more.

tunybgur
tunybgur in reply to Goldfish7

'The Uninhabitable Earth' by David Wallace Wells. This book should be compulsory reading for all the leaders, movers and shakers of this world. Scary stuff, especially because of the factual and dispassionate way it is compiled and written by a self confessed non expert.

Goldfish7
Goldfish7 in reply to tunybgur

Thanks Ill take a look. Wish we lived in a real democracy with an unbiased and effective media, then maybe the decision makers could be held to account and forced to take action.

tunybgur
tunybgur in reply to Goldfish7

'Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others....' paraphrasing one of Churchill's quotes....but I take your point.

We are unfortunately stuck in a system which responds to short term issues in order to maintain popularity and therefore power, and ignores many of the longer term issues.

I thoroughly recommend the Wallace Wells book, although it is a bit depressing it finishes on an optimistic note....the first sentence though: 'It's worse, much worse, than you think' sets the tone.

Enjoy....or not

Goldfish7
Goldfish7 in reply to tunybgur

I'll put it on my reading list

queseyo
queseyo in reply to Goldfish7

About we being "human 'parasite'" I have been thinking since I was 11...Therefore decided never to bring a child to this selfish over-populated world, by the worst destroying insect in the Planet. (I not going to delete this, it is up the HealthUnlocked to decide) 😌😌😌

Belle11
Belle11 in reply to BobD

Zero Covid is used as a term to mean aiming for elimination from a country or region, (rather than eradication, which is when there is none of a disease in the world apart from in a lab, eg smallpox.)

New Zealand have gone for Zero Covid - it doesn't mean there are never any cases, but that when they occur, they have a good test and trace system, and can isolate the cases so they don't spread more widely. There also need to be very good border controls and quarantine to achieve this, so new variants don't take hold and potentially outsmart vaccines as they are rolled out.

""Obvious benefits of rapid elimination are greatly reduced case numbers, a lower risk of health sector overload and fewer overall deaths from COVID‑19. There is also an opportunity to avoid serious health inequities." Also, interestingly "Countries following an elimination strategy—notably China, Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand—have suffered less economically than countries with suppression goals." From an article by the public health expert who has advised New Zealand on its Covid policy medicalxpress.com/news/2020...

Samazeuilh
Samazeuilh in reply to BobD

I definitely wouldn’t want anyone to be put off taking the vaccine based on my post! Just to clarify: this was an informal conversation with a nurse who said that there was government information that the vaccines (Pfizer and AZ) had as a common side effects palpitations and/or an elevated heart rate and she had had reports of AF being triggered in some. She then, in response to my asking how long these effects might last, said it was impossible to say. They could pass over in a few days, but it was possible they might not. So this is not really anything that new or dramatic- it might simply mean that you get an elevated heart rate or palpitations in some cases-that is all. I think it’s a pointer to get more information on the topic rather than something to take as gospel.

Buffafly
Buffafly in reply to Samazeuilh

We have had the govt info posted here recently so you can see the exact incidence there.

Lizty
Lizty in reply to Samazeuilh

That nurse was unwise to have that discussion with you and get you worried. Nurses are not expert practitioners but, of course, they will hear gossip like everyone else! I think it is more likely that in some, the few days of tiredness after the vaccine [such as I had] might trigger a drop in blood pressure [which I had] and the heart will react by becoming a bit fluttery. For years before I had af diagnosed this would happen to me during and after a viral illness. Clearly it is a bit worse now I have af which will knock in if I get overtired. My concern from the start has been the risk of blood clots from Covid. Got enough problems with af without the addition of Covid! So we just have to bite the bullet, friends. The medicine will never be as sugary as we wish, but it's there to keep us out of hospital!

Of course it is possible that elevated heart rate and palpitations are caused by the anxiety in having the jab. I know I'm having mine when offered, getting Covid would be worse in my opinion. I think if it was a common debilitating side effect with lasting problems, it would be made more public

Lovetheoutdoors
Lovetheoutdoors in reply to BobD

Thanks Bob. I have af and I had my first jab 3 weeks ago and no side effects. Personally I have seen the effects of covid in loved ones and would not want to risk going through what they did. Two not here to have the jab.

We lost a loved one as well, prayers to you during such a difficult time. Be well~

GrannyE
GrannyE in reply to BobD

A bit of good news for a change. I read somewhere that they are giving anti coagulants to people with covid so most of us here are ahead on that one! I agree with Bob that this thing is probably never going away but I am sure in time with vaccinations and new treatments it will become as serious as the common cold or ‘flue.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to bantam12

Think seriously Bantam, the references to heart related side effects on the forum have been minimal. I have many friends and acquaintances with AF and non of them have had a problem. Of course it’s a personal decision but this thing is going to be around for a very long time mefinks!

bantam12
bantam12 in reply to Hidden

Believe me I am thinking seriously 🤔

secondtry
secondtry in reply to bantam12

I am seriously most grateful to all those here who have had the jab and reported back on their experiences. Any AF issues are big issues. I would particularly like to have reassurance that all went well post-jab from those who have had AF under control for some time. In the absence of this, I wait for some relevant data to be publicised or at least the hospitals less rushed before I get 'in line'.

Decaf_Andy
Decaf_Andy in reply to secondtry

I have relatively asymptomatic AF and since diagnosed in early 2020 the frequency of my AF episodes has tended to increase. By the end of January there were more days with an AF episode than without.On Jan 29th I had the Pfizer vaccine and have had no AF incidents whatsoever since!!

To be clear, I'm drawing no direct link - I believe it to be a coincidence. However, I can certainly say that the jab didnt seem to adversely affect me.

Everyone should be careful about drawing any conclusions from anecdotal, non-proven chatter of course. These jabs are great news for people with conditions which could put us at serious risk from covid.

Buffafly
Buffafly in reply to secondtry

You do know the after effects of COVID, right?

secondtry
secondtry in reply to Buffafly

Yes practitioners are building up experience of treating Long Covid, hopefully I won't need to consult them!

Buffafly
Buffafly in reply to secondtry

I’m not talking about long Covid, there are much worse consequences than that.

Ellie-Anne
Ellie-Anne in reply to secondtry

Hi. I take Apaxiban and bisoprolol twice a day for AF. I’ve had the AZ VACCINE 3 weeks ago. No side effects.

Brummiegal
Brummiegal in reply to secondtry

Hi there, I was diagnosed with AF in July 2015 - since then I’ve had one slight attack brought on by stress - I had my Pfizer jab 3 weeks ago on Friday - I had an achy arm the day after, I felt really tired for 2 days - and that was it - no palpitations no raised heart rate nothing - I take a Beta blocker, Apixaban and Ramapril - I am overweight and 70 years old - I feel great, and I am so happy I’ve had my first jab and can’t wait for the 2nd - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE have your jabs when they are offered - Covid 19 will kill you if it catches up with you and you have no resistance ❤️

secondtry
secondtry in reply to Brummiegal

Thanks for reporting in, maybe Pfizer is best for well controlled AF.

Samazeuilh
Samazeuilh in reply to bantam12

Please don’t base such an important decision on my post. It’s just an informal conversation I had with a nurse. It’s a pointer to getting more information, not for not taking the vaccine.

bantam12
bantam12 in reply to Samazeuilh

I already had doubts so don't worry you have put me off 🙂

reinaway
reinaway in reply to bantam12

When I had my jabs (Pfizer) I had e ctopics and full AF episodes after both of them. I am very symptomatic but I can assure you that although I hate the episodes I didn't hesitate to have the vaccine rather than contract Covid. I am fully recovered now and would urge you to go ahead and have it.

Cookie341
Cookie341 in reply to Samazeuilh

It's good you said something. No worries here. I go on "vaers" to see reports as I had a terrible reaction to mmr shot in 2004 & doctors at jefferson said "not even a flu shot" for me. I am finding out whether I can possibly get this vaccine~ Be well.

Nerja2012
Nerja2012 in reply to bantam12

No problems here. Just a 1 day headache. Heart fine.

dedeottie
dedeottie in reply to Nerja2012

Any virus provoked my AF so it is no surprise that if your body is mounting an immune response, the same may happen. For someone who already has AF , surely it would only be temporary. Anyone with a virus can experience a raised heart rate so this side effect is probably one to be expected. My AF has increased lately and I did have some AF after my jab but it was only for a couple of hours and only over a couple of days and may not even have been related. Have the jab! Covid is much much worse. My dear friend AND her husband died last week of covid and both their teenage grandchildren have been in hospital needing oxygen support. This was after the Christmas relaxing of rules.We can’t shield for ever. The vaccine is the only way out in my opinion. X

san_ray70
san_ray70 in reply to dedeottie

My husband has AF I do not, he had no problems, but then he has not since he was diagnosed. He has to take warfarin, I know there is a more modern drug, but he was told it is not suitable for him. I however have not been well, I have flu as far as I can tell. My husband told a nurse and she said it is common to get some side effects. I am still having the second one in April.

Like you Bantam, I have some autoimmune conditions that long predated my heart issues. And take biologic injections that have kept those problems under wraps for 15 years. I got my 1st vaccine dose yesterday (moderna). So far, so good! Won’t really have a good sense of side effects until a few weeks after final dose. I know there are risks, but after seeing a friend who was hit w Covid last March and is still suffering long term effects, I’ll take my chances with the vaccine. Good you’re seeking advice from your drs!

Hidden
Hidden

Obviously not disputing what you have been told but cannot see any reference to arrhythmia here.......

gov.uk/government/publicati...

Or here

gov.uk/government/publicati...

Just out of interest, what is BHP........

bantam12
bantam12 in reply to Hidden

Info is no doubt changing as side effect reports come in, there seem to be a heck of a lot on the forums getting heart problems after the vaccine !

BobD
BobDVolunteer in reply to bantam12

According to one Iranian Ayatollah the vaccine turns you into a homosexual. In Iran that means you will be executed. Enough of this nonsense!

bantam12
bantam12 in reply to BobD

Of course that's nonsense but I don't see the connection with that and what is being talked about here 🤔

Spangle14
Spangle14 in reply to BobD

One is clearly nonsense, but the other isn't. It is a real problem that warrants discussion and exploration. Be kind BobD!

Lucymoo
Lucymoo in reply to BobD

Well said

Buffafly
Buffafly in reply to bantam12

People with heart problems tend to get heart problems. There were some very funny ‘side effects’ reported, quite clearly a coincidence. Osteoarthritis was one - not something you are going to develop overnight.

Samazeuilh
Samazeuilh in reply to Buffafly

Could you post the link to the govt stats?

Buffafly
Buffafly in reply to Samazeuilh

healthunlocked.com/api/redi....

Samazeuilh
Samazeuilh in reply to Buffafly

Thanks!

BobD
BobDVolunteer in reply to Buffafly

And two cases of genital herpes! Some of the complaints reported are clearly deliberate trouble making or very stupid people which is why I commented on the ayatolla.

bantam12
bantam12 in reply to BobD

We aren't talking about the obviously ridiculous reports so why make unhelpful comments ! Clearly you and others think those of us with genuine concerns are stupid and making a fuss about nothing.

BobD
BobDVolunteer in reply to bantam12

Not at all bantam but the constant missinformation, rumour and half truths helps nobody especially people such as yourself with genuine concerns. Lets stick to facts which are that the best chance we have of any kind of opening up or normal life is for the majority to be vaccinated and those who do not wish so to stay isolated .

bantam12
bantam12 in reply to BobD

If all comments are to be viewed as "misinformation, rumour and half truths what is the point of the forum. I would rather believe what real people are reporting than what the "experts" want us to believe !

Tomred
Tomred in reply to bantam12

Exactly bantam I agree I'll go with that

Lizty
Lizty in reply to bantam12

Bantam, this is one of the most reliable of the Health Unlocked forums. It is full of genuine helpful information .. and what people are saying is that if you download random statistics without understanding source or content, then these will be misinterpreted. The hours and hours put into researching these vaccines are equivalent to years of trials......... and each has been rigorously tested for safety. Don't you think that the Daily Mail would have posted all across its front page if 11 million people were becoming seriously ill after the vaccine?

Cally53
Cally53 in reply to bantam12

I had my vaccine this morning (Pfizer)and so far feel absolutely fine. If I get any side effects, apart from sore arm etc I'll report them on here.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to bantam12

Unfortunately governments are shall we say "economical with the truth". We were told that the vaccine would be the answer and we could return to normality. What was not really made explicit was that none of the vaccine trials had reduction ( let alone elimination) of transmission as an endpoint . Now it appears that even those who are fully vaccinated ie have had two jabs should still stick to social distancing rules because as yet there is not enough data on whether the vaccines reduce transmission . Given that they have been rolled out in a lockdown how do you tell? Are cases going down due to the lockdown or due to the vaccination roll out? I don't trust anything Boris Johnson says and not much my own government says either.

xr1450
xr1450 in reply to Auriculaire

Don't let your politics get in the way will you...oops, you already did!

Why do people like you seem to think their is some sort of manual on how to deal with situations like this. Just another case of Boris Derangement Syndrome.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to xr1450

Is that a new illness?

Peony4575
Peony4575 in reply to bantam12

I think even those of us who have had it have very serious concerns . It’s making the risk benefit analysis and coming to different conclusions

Lucymoo
Lucymoo in reply to bantam12

Not sure where your evidence is for this statement. I’ve not seen one post which has said they developed cardiac / AF from the vaccine

bantam12
bantam12 in reply to Lucymoo

Did you mean to reply to me ? I'm not aware of making any "statement" but besides that there are numerous posts on several forums about AF after vaccination.

kkatz
kkatz in reply to Lucymoo

There are lots of posts on here re side tachycardia and or AF episodes.ok none of it causing new onset.I am still in AF since 31st Jan. Could be down to other things but haven't had any episodes since June 2019 and that was a few hours. I worry about having the second dose.

Hidden
Hidden

I agree, when this first kicked off, I contacted AZ because from the information I had, no one taking anticoagulants were on the trials. I wasn’t overly concerned about the potential bleed risk, but I was concerned that it meant that no one who had a condition which required an anticoagulant was on the trials and whether or not this could be an issue. Sadly there was no response so I followed the guidelines put out by the AFA. Fortunately for me, AZ only produced mild flu type effects.......

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to Hidden

I think it is disgraceful that you got no response. You had a valid question that should have been answered.

Hidden
Hidden in reply to Auriculaire

I was surprised too, but it was via email at a time they were at their busiest and then the AFA produced their video so I didn’t pursue it......

Thank you for alerting us to potential side effects, there is so much still unknown. Recently came across this article written by by a former Harvard Medical School professor who has founded more than a dozen biotechnology companies. He also serves as chair and president of the global health think tank Access Health International:

scientificamerican.com/arti...

And the following statement has been posted on WHO website:

"We do not know whether the vaccine will prevent infection and protect against onward transmission. Immunity persists for several months, but the full duration is not yet known. These important questions are being studied."

There is a number of clinicians and researchers who are raising concerns about "vaccine associated disease enhancement" and nobody really knows the full extent of benefits and side effects.

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to faridaro

Anti body dependant enhancement is a very real concern with corona viruses. This phenomenon was found when they were trying to develop vaccines for the original SARS and for MERS. According to Derek Lowe on his blog "In the Pipeline " on Science Translational Medicine there has been no sign of this in the pre clinical ( animal) trials for the vaccines and none in the various phases of the clinical trials. However with the rise if variants this is still a possibility . This happens with Dengue. If there were data on natural reinfection with more severe illness the second time round this would point to ADE but so far I have only heard of one case of this - and it was with a different strain than the first illness.There are reports that those who get the Pfizer vaccine who have already had corona virus have much worse reactions. The French health authorities are recommending that such people only have one jab and that it should be at least 3 months after their infection and preferably 6 months.

It matters not to me if I get a few extra episodes of P-AF unpleasant as they are and it would have made an iota of difference if I had been informed by the NHS that extra arrhythmia was a possibility after vaccination. I actually had a 10 hour episode pf P-AF 3 days after the vaccination and thought if the vaccination was the cause and it was not just coincidence, it was a small price to pay for a chance to avoid what could be hospitalisation or death.

I am amazed what a lot of fuss some people are making over having the vaccine, I think we are jolly lucky in this country to have vaccine freely available just a year into the pandemic.

I have seen my neighbour taken away to die with C19 (in this tiny rural hamlet not a city) and know of some others who have died or been very ill with long covid including a 7 year old best friend of my granddaughter still in hospital after months .

I can't believe there is so much complaining and nit picking about vaccination, my only complaint was that I might not get vaccinated due to snow.

bantam12
bantam12 in reply to doodle68

Others may have more medical issues that make it a bigger consideration, it's not a case of "fuss and nit picking". I have been unwell due to chronic conditions since an operation last August so doing anything that could potentially make me worse is an important decision to me.

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to bantam12

As you know I also have complex autoimmune conditions + dysautomonia. I had the Pfitzer vaccine with absolutely no missed heartbeats or anything else other than a little tenderness - couldn’t call it pain - the same night & next day.

The stats coming from Zoe app show that that about 1 in 7 report a reaction to the AZ vaccine - less for the Pfitzer but early days for the data. The reaction is the body tricking the immune system into believing there is infection - hence the symptoms but I don’t know anyone whose symptoms lasted more than 48-72 hours. It doesn’t make you ill but you may have symptoms as though you are - big difference.

I was expecting an immune flare - had nothing.

I hope you find this reassuring as one does need to be very careful with autoimmune conditions.

I’ve just had letter telling me that despite having the vaccine, I will still need to shield until at least end of March.

bantam12
bantam12 in reply to CDreamer

Thanks 🙂

belindalore
belindalore in reply to CDreamer

We in the USA have been told to continue to follow the guidelines after getting a vaccine. Don't know for how long. Even if you've had a vaccine and visit family or friends you're told to still mask up. We're being told here you can still transmit the virus after being vaccinated and it has happened here several times and several people have died after being vaccinated with no health issues. You across the ocean aren't hearing about what's going on in the USA. "Several" is not a big number. But when people are not told the truth about what is happening that is wrong. Not saying people shouldn't get the vaccine. They have the right to know what's going on. We are told one thing one day and something completely different the next from the "experts". So there's a lot of confusion. Which also means that there is still a lot of unknowns about the vaccines. Now the USA is gripped by one of the worst winter storms in a very long time and it is crippling the vaccine rollout. I think anyone who thinks that the virus will get better is living in another world.

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to belindalore

Hi Belindalore - we are told the same - the slogan is FACE (meaning cover), SPACE (meaning keep at least 2m apart) and HANDS - meaning wash for at least 20 seconds frequently and after you return home. The ban on travel is being enforced, finally. Mixing with anyone outside of your household is banned, even outdoors.

Quite an amusing incident recently when a very rare N American Mocking bird visitor was spotted in our town - someone took a photo of it on a tree in their back garden and it was on the local TV news. Of course that prompted all the twitchers so flood into the area however Police were on the case, stopping and fining anyone from out of area.

The letter I referred to in my post above is directly from the office of Matt Hancock, Minister for Health who advises that shielding be continued until at least the end of March. That means you can’t leave your house unless going to ‘essential’ medical appointments. All our meds are delivered, all groceries delivered and many people have been living like that for 12 months now. All none essential shops are closed as are schools except for key workers.

We have been told that immunity will not build until at least 7 days following the second jab so for me that means at least end of April.

I take the NY Times every morning, online, and occasionally tap into the Washington Post so I do know what is reported in US - we also watch CBS and Sky which give global news which for some reason the BBC is rationing or reporting on about 3-4 later?

There are many unknown, unknowns about the virus, the vaccine and the affects of both but there is also a mountain of misinformation (unintended and from an ignorant viewpoint) and disinformation (deliberate from the disrupters for political, religious or economic reasons). Knowing what to believe and what not is becoming more difficult.

Because someone dies after having the vaccine does not mean they died BECAUSE they had the vaccine and that’s not to say there will be an occasional fatality simply because of the huge numbers involved. UK is now up 13M people vaccinated and as far as I am aware, no fatalities because of the vaccine - even from anaphylactic reactions.

Yes we will have to learn to live with the virus - as we did the Plague and Smallpox and more recently AIDS and Influenza but we are learning more and more each day.

When I went for my vaccine I was given a 4 page document to read stating a full list of ingredients, the possibilities of a reaction and what to do, how to report any affects, a full list of possible known affects caused by the vaccine and general advice. We were then clerked and asked what medications and asked about specific medications and conditions which might mean the vaccine would be contra-indicated and then given the vaccine and told to go sit in a supervised holding area for 15 minutes to ensure we didn’t have an immediate reaction.

I would have thought more than enough information and caution.

Take care and stay safe. CD.

belindalore
belindalore in reply to CDreamer

Wow. You get more good information than they are giving out here. And I think the problem here as I said is, we are told one thing then another. People don't know what to believe. We're told 2 weeks or more (depends on who is giving the information as it seems no two people say the same thing) for immunity. People thought the vaccine for polio years ago cured it. I know a few people who developed symptoms of polio in their elder years. A couple of them had to start wearing leg braces. That vaccine caused a lot of death and severe permanent side effects in many people. But of course all that was swept under the rug. So many people have lost their jobs and have become homeless. But that's not all being reported. And yet we now have a President signing executive orders left and right and putting us deeper into debt. This country is so out of control it's mind boggling. If you watch CBS news you aren't getting the full picture. CBS, NBC and ABC have all become very biased. Especially NBC. I and many of my friends quit watching any of their "news". Our media is more like a bunch of those tabloid papers anymore. Just so many things have gone wrong with this country and everyone wants to blame Trump. But things were going wrong years before he was elected. Yes people will die after getting vaccinated but when some people were perfectly healthy, then there is concern. So there's investigating going on. And yes we will have to live with it for years to come. This is not the flu we get a shot for every year and then go about life without another thought about it. I've never known the flu to mutate like this into so many variants. We're told the new variants are much much worse and more contagious than the covid 19. One day we're told the vaccines will work against them and then we're told they won't work. I just wish one person would tell us a semblance of what's right instead of putting us on a runaway rollercoaster day to day. The CDC here says send kids back to school when 3/4 of the country is experiencing high case loads. And the teachers aren't getting vaccinated. I don't know CDreamer. All I can say is it's one big mess over here. You all followed the guidelines sooooo much better.

Thanks for letting me rant. Sometimes it's all just too depressing. I'm just saddened by it all.

Please continue to be safe. May God keep watch on us.

I'm in Florida so not serious cold weather here. But Texas has been hit very hard. They are not used to snow and ice there. Sometimes the very northern part of the state will get snow. But this is something that never happens there. Millions without heat and no power at all. Several deaths from the cold already. North Carolina had a severe tornado in a part of the state. I don't remember it being this cold in parts of the country since I was 24, 44 years ago. This is much worse since then. And Biden wants to go to solar and wind turbines. Not much sun in the winter and they don't work when covered with snow and ice. And the wind turbines freeze up. Germany learned their lesson trying to rely on solar and wind. Oh well. Politics.

Stay safe.

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to belindalore

PS - I read about the storms - sounds terrible - they have not to date been reported in the UK news. Hope you have enough fuel to keep warm.

doodle68
doodle68 in reply to bantam12

Hi Bantam :-) I would have thought that was even more reason to have the vaccination (unless of course a doctor advises otherwise) .

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to bantam12

I just read a report in the NY Times briefing on something which is emerging which is called Multi System Inflammatory Syndrome in people who have been infected with COVID sometimes without symptoms. Mainly seen in children MIS-C, there are also reports of adults suffering MIS-A. This reaction can be life threatening.

This is an extract from Mayo Clinic

Rarely, some adults develop signs and symptoms similar to MIS-C. This new and serious syndrome, called multisystem inflammatory syndrome in adults (MIS-A), occurs in adults who were previously infected with the COVID-19 virus and many didn't even know it. MIS-A seems to occur weeks after COVID-19 infection, though some people have a current infection. If MIS-A is suspected, a diagnostic or antibody test for COVID-19 can help confirm current or past infection with the virus, which aids in diagnosing MIS-A.

If you have had auto-immune complications in the past, I think you are always fearful of having more but if anything were to convince me to have the vaccine, I think this would be it.

I am also a member of FB forum for autoimmune and so far I would say the majority have been vaccinated and so far I haven’t seen one report of anyone being ill after either the Pfitzer or AZ - heresay I know.

Take care.

RajaRua
RajaRua in reply to CDreamer

Hi CDreamer, Is Fibromyalgia an auto-immune problem? I've looked it up online and I read that it is and also that it's not....it's a Central NS problem. Just thought you might be in the know re this.

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to RajaRua

I understood it to be so - I have several friends who suffer - horrible disease you have my empathy - however there does seem to be a lot of dispute about that. Certainly inflammatory so can’t see how it can’t be.

RajaRua
RajaRua in reply to CDreamer

Thank you CDreamer. I've googled it a few times but get mixed info!

Lucymoo
Lucymoo in reply to bantam12

Isn’t it important to balance the risk for everyone. Between having vaccination and catching COVID for me there’s only one choice and a few side effects are still not as bad as COVID. I had no side effects at all. I also remember (showing my age) having the smallpox vaccination

Buffafly
Buffafly in reply to Lucymoo

And polio and BCG. Living in Africa we were so grateful to have those and it was a big occasion when we school children were lined up for the first polio vaccine and the smallpox vaccination. My father and my cousin had had polio so there was no way I wouldn’t have had it even if there was a choice. There was fear about side effects and one girl got so worked up about the smallpox vaccination she fainted which didn’t encourage the people behind her! The BCG caused a nasty sore but a bad one was supposed to be good - I can still prove I’ve had it but I don’t think it’s given nowadays.

Peony4575
Peony4575 in reply to Buffafly

The BCG was a very big needle. We had ours in the chemistry lab, a girl called Janet took off when it was her turn. They chased her round the chemistry lab till she passed out and they jabbed her on the floor while we all watched open mouthed . They didn’t take prisoners when I was at school lol

Buffafly
Buffafly in reply to Peony4575

Those were the days! 🤣

secondtry
secondtry in reply to bantam12

I think it is important to recognise that there are strong relevant arguments on both sides of this debate. I am with you on this one Bantam. I plan to postpone my jab 1) my AF has been stable for a long time 2) the hospitals are full 3) difficult to have consultant appointments in person 3)I am not on ACs 4) I have a dependant and don't want to be out of action myself 5) I am lucky in being able to voluntarily shield effectively 6) I await more data including maybe a new vaccine that could be less risky for those with well controlled AF.

bantam12
bantam12 in reply to secondtry

Luckily it is our choice to wait a little longer and that decision should be respected 🙂

DizzyD
DizzyD in reply to bantam12

I am with you on this bantam.....I have had vaccine letter and have chosen not to have the jab at this point in time. I may never have it, only time will tell. I have had covid and survived to tell the tale aged 69 with pre-existing health conditions.

Lizty
Lizty in reply to bantam12

Well don't have the vaccine then Bantam. It is not compulsory. Certainly worrying so much about it will only make you ill, and that isn't going to help anyway. Just stay away from others who might be as vulnerable as you.

bantam12
bantam12 in reply to Lizty

I never said I wasn't ever going to have it and I'm not " worrying so much", I merely question the potential side effects for me in my situation, wish I'd never bothered to comment !

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to bantam12

I think your comment has helped others to think through their choices so I for one am very glad you did comment.

wilsond
wilsond in reply to doodle68

Well said xxx

Fibber222
Fibber222 in reply to doodle68

Did you have many long episodes of PAF? I had the same problem after 10 days with multiple long episodes of 14 hrs over the past week. Has it settled now? I’ve still got 2nd jab toHave yet.

doodle68
doodle68 in reply to Fibber222

Hello Fibber :-) I have long episode of P-AF every 10 days so it never 'settles' it is something I have learnt to live with for now. I too have a second vaccination to come, I didn't get any reaction with the first though I know some who did as is to be expected.

My episodes of P-AF are very symptomatic and unpleasant with breathlessness. I am aware that the Covid 19 virus causes breathlessness and a form of arrhythmia in many people as well as long team disability and death. The last thing I think my body could cope with in addition to P-AF is to catch Covid and any vaccine that can prevent me from catching severe Covid even if it brings some side effects is worth it .

Another reason I say this is Covid is never going to go away, it has become endemic and is likely to be with us indefinitely in some form . Even if most of the world is vaccinated pockets of infection will remain particularly in the hard to reach areas and where large numbers of population refuse the vaccine.

I think those who refuse the vaccine will spend the rest of their lives at risk as it used to be with other diseases like small pox . I don't want to spend the rest of my life in semi isolation if there is a way out with vaccination.

Fibber222
Fibber222 in reply to doodle68

Hi Doodle68, my episodes after the jab were every other day for a week. I’m hoping that it will settle now. My cardio didn’t mention a link last night when I saw him. Perhaps he hadn’t seen the report. I don’t know who the BHP is? I wish you well and hope your episodes decrease. I will have 2nd jab as like you I know of a neighbour aged 50 who has died from Covid and friends who were perfectly fit who are still struggling since Christmas from Covid. It’s scary

doodle68
doodle68 in reply to Fibber222

Hi Fibber :-) it is just a week since I had the vaccination, I had a 10 hour episode of P-AF 3 days after although I had other odd bits of P-AF as well and I am not attributing any of them to the vaccination, they could be coincidental because I get a lot of P- AF anyway .

I have been fine since last Saturday :-)

Fibber222
Fibber222 in reply to doodle68

Hi Doodle 68, That is very reassuring. I know PAF can happen in clusters per my cardio and good to know that it’s poss for 10 hrs plus episodes. I hadn’t experienced any that length before. He also suggestion ablation so will try if offered. It’s anyone’s guess if it was me or vaccine but if it settles down now allWill be good and I’ll continue the jab path and elevated dose of sotolol. Thank you for your input.

RajaRua
RajaRua in reply to doodle68

"Judge not and thou shall not be judged" Doodle68. We are all dealing with various physical and emotional issues as well as and maybe because of AFib. Calling our concerns "fuss and nit picking" is very far from kind or helpful. If 68 refers to your year of birth you are a lot younger than a lot of us on here. It takes weeks for me to get my strength back after a long AFib attack as well as getting some confidance back in my body again. We are all different. Don't rush to judge please.

doodle68
doodle68 in reply to RajaRua

Hi Raja :-) I am in my 70s and my episodes are frequent and highly symptomatic and make me feel very ill, I can do very little when I am having one but when I am not I don't sit around feeling sorry for myself, I make the best of things and get on with my life and that includes getting a vaccination and some protection from C19 .

Also I live alone miles from anyone with no one but myself to rely on , I have been 'isolating ' since last February when I guessed what would happen with the virus and I am looking forward to a degree of freedom in time thanks to the vaccination.

RajaRua
RajaRua in reply to doodle68

As I said we are all different and have our emotional and physical vulnerabilities and issues.

GrannyE
GrannyE in reply to doodle68

I think you are right. In spite of my horrid side effects from the AZ vaccine which lasted for days I am pleased I had it. ...... A bit like the end of the Hilaire Belloc poem starting ‘There was a boy whose name was Jim.......’and ending ‘and always keep a hand on nurse for fear of finding something worse’. It is the ‘something worse ‘ which bothered me!

Peony4575
Peony4575 in reply to GrannyE

Hi Granny, what symptoms did you get that lasted for days? I ask bevmcause had mine on Sunday and still have the flu like symptoms today, Wednesday . Thanks

The day after my AZ vaccine I had a headache, body ache, fatigue and a pounding heart. It all gradually got better over a few days.

Thanks Jean that’s where I am . Better than Monday and much much better than I would be with a dose of Covid

That may well be correct. I think that it would be useful to get access to the data which the nurse referred to so that it can be evaluated. It may be nothing to worry about. I definitely don’t want people to start panicking or basing decisions on my earlier post.

Lizty
Lizty in reply to Samazeuilh

Too late Sam.... what have you done?😅

As covid has progressed so medics understanding of it and its mutation possibilities and potential treatments have progressed and will continue to do so. As with the virus so the vaccinations will throw up different issues and anomalies along the way. Its all new in the scheme of things.

Perhaps those who have experienced arrhythmia and or raised heart rate post vaccination should undertake to raise it via the yellow card reporting system. That way medics can get a full picture and see, over time, if heart issues is a sizeable or small concern to be considered. If we dont report back they cant be expected to take it into account.

I didnt want the vaccine because its all so new but had it last week after very careful consideration and yes i had the side effects mentioned including cardiac ones. I am uncomfortable about it all but on balance went with it. We can only do what we feel is best for us and our fellow humans.

Peony4575
Peony4575 in reply to meadfoot

I had the vaccine (Pfizer ) two days ago and have had flu symptoms short low tachycardia (110) and raised HR. I can tell you that those symptoms were extremely mild compared with the symptoms and arrhythmia I experienced coming off bisoprolol on a slow wean . I assume the difference in reaction to people on the forum between the two is everyone is used to bisoprolol and the vaccine is new. It has been tested on the oldest most vulnerable ridden with health condition people by the thousand and given how our media do love a negative story if there had been lots of people hospitalised it would probably have leaked by now . It is possible that consequences may come to light over time as they have with other drugs , but against that possibility is the certainty that catching Covid 19 will do me no good at all. I will be going back for my second shot . They are about to test the vaccine on children and the rules about drugs for children are incredibly stringent . The medical authorities must be confident about its safety

CDreamer
CDreamer in reply to Peony4575

Well said!

Alfc
Alfc in reply to Peony4575

I’m really interested in your comments Peony4575. I had the Pfizer vaccination 3 weeks ago and came off bisoprolol 2 weeks. Only had an 8hour AF episode but experience palpitations and higher heart rate and some ‘inconclusive’ ECG readings on my watch. Still better than the way I felt on bisoprolol! Can I ask why you came off bisoprolol?

Peony4575
Peony4575 in reply to Alfc

Of course . I had a single ( so far) episode of AF caused by taking two Celebrex anti inflammatory capsules. They can block the potassium channels in your heart causing an electrolyte imbalance. I was put on bisoprolol by the cardiologist I saw in a&e prophylactically . Made me feel awful and I didn’t want to be permanently on a horrible drug on the off chance I might have another episode . So started to wean off and it was murder even though I d only been on them five minutes . Lots of Arrythmia I hadn’t had before kept emailing private cardiologist I saw after the episodes. Caused AT, SVT ectopic and sinus tachycardia. Lovely drug

Alfc
Alfc in reply to Peony4575

Thanks Peony4575

Peony4575
Peony4575 in reply to Alfc

You could be getting dodgy ecg readings for some time after stopping bisoprolol . Presume you take magnesium and eat with your electrolytes in mind . Best of luck to you

Alfc
Alfc in reply to Peony4575

Thanks again.

I think it is a disgrace that they are testing it on children. How can a child of 6 possibly give informed consent and do parents have the right to put forward perfectly healthy children for such trials? It is not the same as testing possibly life saving drugs on the sick.

From an item I saw on the news the other night they are beginning with teens not six year olds . They interviewed a couple of the girls who had volunteered, not been put forward by their parents, and they were very well informed , intelligent and articulate young women . Not to mention brave

Yes - I saw that to and thought they were perfectly capable of giving informed consent. But reports on the BBC did mention children as young as 6.

Children get vaccinated against measles mumps rubella flu hpv polio meningitis , don’t know if they still do the diphtheria tb ones these days there is nothing to suggest the Covid one will be more risky . I would prefer kids to be given the Astra Zeneca as it’s not new technology but it’s important to get them back into school or they won’t have a future . My ex husband was the first child in our town to have the polio vaccine in the 1950s his dad was a GP and very keen for him to have it. His best friend caught polio at about the same time and has spent his whole life with his leg in a full length calliper . We don’t know if future variants might mutate in a way that affects children as much as adult s and I don’t think any of us could bear that . Better to be proactive

I had the Pfizer first jab four weeks ago and I had no reaction at all. My AF was unaffected. Everyone should have the vaccination unless a doctor has specifically advised you not to. Covid is a serious disease particularly if you are over 65 have any underlying health conditions or have a BMI of 30 or above. It is such a privilege to be offered this protection. Have it. Don’t be afraid.

Suggest you read Snowgirl65’s post.....

I've had both Pfizer shots and didn't experience any of those reactions. There was a short, slight headache in both cases and that was pretty much it. This is the first time I am hearing this.

My view....get the vaccine and get on with your life......all this will it won't it nonsense perhaps this is why some people refuse the injection based on ill informed well meaning people putting their six pennies worth in. I am not aware of anyone dying or even suffering greatly from the vaccine. I am certainly aware of in excess of 100,000 people dying from Corvid. Your shout....for me an absolute no brainer...2nd injection please. None of us are safe until we are all safe. Eventually, something in this life will get us...I think it's pretty certain it won't be a vaccination.

I reported a couple of days ago that 10 days after my pfizer jab I had 6 nasty episodes of long lasting af over 10days - averagec12 hrs which is unheard of for me. I saw my cardio yesterday and he has upped my sotolol to max dose. If this report is correct it’s poss that jab was the cause????? These. Episodes were really very unpleasant and I still have 2nd jab to go. I’m hoping the extra sotolol will settle this down now. To have or not to have? That is the question

It seems I am one of the unlucky ones then! I posted a couple of days ago on a similar thread that I went into AF the day after my first Pfizer jab. Despite my regular doses of Flecainide and Bisoprolol I was in AF for 26 hours. I have never had an episode so long before. I did report it via the yellow card system . I am anxious about the second jab especially as my son had more side effects after his second jab than the first.

Buffafly
Buffafly in reply to Londonlass

Maybe that indicates that your heart would have reacted even worse to the real thing? I usually get AF when I have a virus or infection so I would expect to go into persistent AF if I had COVID.

Londonlass
Londonlass in reply to Buffafly

Yes that’s my thinking too.

Hi Samazeuilh I had the astra zeneca vaccine yesterday at 4.00pm so far I'm fine, when did the after effects start for others, headaches or other? I was worried about having it as I have PAF which hasn't really BN sorted yet after my last appointment where the very young doctor questioned whether I had it at all despite ending up in hospital 5 years ago with a 12 hour episode I'm more worried after reading all this but I've had the vaccine now so not much I can do about it. I am grateful to have had it and that the doctor recognised I needed to be in the 16-64 group. I was terrified of getting covid so I'm going to try not to worry about it which will probably bring on an attack, as I think it's stress related. I'm more concerned that since Christmas I seem to have developed something like hay fever which is really debilitating!

I had my first dose 2 weeks ago, so far no ill effects & certainly no increase in arrhythmia thankfully!

All treatments as we know have risks, bearing in mind the potential risks many of us have from Ablations and Cardiac Versions, these stated side affects appear minimal in general. I base this on the lack of long term data available at the moment.

One can only make a judgement on what available evidence is available now. Personally , like many here , I would prefer to have the vaccine and will do so this morning. I completely understand anyone who is coping with ambivalence about the decision.

ironically, we are probably better placed to deal with any mild arrhythmia that may result from the medication than the general population, anxiety wise that is.

Ive had mine and no cardiac reaction at all.

Hylda
Hylda in reply to opal11uk

Snap. Astra Zennica!

Staffsgirl
Staffsgirl in reply to opal11uk

Snap Pfizer: 4 weeks ago. Bring on the second.

Had Pfizer two weeks ago and again, no reactionIt might be worth remembering that vaccination isn't just about the individual it's about being socially responsible as well ?

Sorry, I don't mean to preach. I just think sometimes when our health isn't at its best it's easy to get a little self obsessed.

Until there are concrete data on reduction in transmission then the vaccine is more about individual benefit. Less ill people crowding the hospitals is a social benefit but this could probably have been achieved months ago by a nationwide campaign to raise vit D levels in the population. It is very puzzling to me as to why a poor nation like India can give out Covid packs containing Ivermectin and vit D to help with prophylaxis and end up with a far lower deaths per million rate and a plummetting case rate but richer countries cannot.

I've had AF for just on a year now and I also work at the vaccination hub in Aintree hospital where I've had the opportunity to discuss the impact of vaccination on my AF.No one and that includes doctors, nurses and vaccinations have suggested that there would be any serious adverse affects with the vaccine on my AF. There could be as with anyone some mild discomfort for a day or so.

I had the jab 3 weeks ago and to be totally honest I've not been in any discomfort whatsoever. My view based on my experience and knowing many people who've given me feedback is to go and get the jab be positive and accept that there will always be people who want to spread negativity without substance.

Peony4575
Peony4575 in reply to Visacrem

Thank you for doing an excellent job at Aintree from a fellow Scouser ( well Wirral anyway )

Hi, I’m 43, I work in the NHS. I have AF and I’ve had a TIA( mini stroke) I’m on apixaban, flecainide and tildiem. I had my Pfizer jab in January. I only had a tender arm and a head ache. I’m totally fine. There is too much wrong information out there on social media. Be careful what you read.

That appears to be a lot of fatal reactions reported for a vaccine that is protecting you from a virus with a fatality rate of something like 0.03%

Lucymoo
Lucymoo in reply to jondeanp

Where’s your evidence for this statement. I’ve NOT heard of one fatal reaction so am very concerned you are scaring people unnecessarily

Lacarno
Lacarno in reply to Lucymoo

I have bouts of AFib and actually had it when l had my vaccination l had no side affects whatsoever my AFib lasted for 4days . I would like to know if there’s anyone who has kidney failure my Husband is stage 4 however his kidneys we were told wouldn’t improve after discharge from the hospital but they did with his diet they were at 28 then 27 which they have remained for years but since having the vaccination they are now 24 could the vaccination have caused the drop but we have been a bit slack with the diet , he has no immune system as he had Benapali Ingections for psoriatic arthritis anyone in the same position would be interested to know please !

Auriculaire
Auriculaire in reply to Lucymoo

If you go to the VAERS site in America ( Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting) they list all the adverse events including deaths that have been reported to them. This site is open to the public. The MHRA collects this data but so far has not chosen to disclose it.

Wow the UK would never disclose that level of information!

Tomred
Tomred in reply to Lucymoo

Here's some indisputable evidence these vaccines haven't had 1 year 2 year 5 year results regarding sides this is Fact!!! I can't understand why people seem to overlook this Fact maybe they don't care about 5 years time deal with it then eh?

Peony4575
Peony4575 in reply to Tomred

I don’t think people overlook it they just think the vaccine gives them a chance of being around in 5 years time in a country where children can go to school and we have a functioning economy

lkolada
lkolada in reply to Lucymoo

The deaths are listed and other issues as reported in the most recent Uk report from the last 6 weeks under cardiac disorders., It is on another link here on an earlier post last week I believe. The total of deaths from people at the bottom of the report 143, and the 59,614 reactions to the injection of one type or another

Chuyueling
Chuyueling in reply to jondeanp

I think he means side effects, not fatal reactions to the vaccine

Exactly!

Raylpa
Raylpa in reply to jondeanp

You should provide the evidential source of this seemingly baseless statement or you should alternatively correct or withdraw it. Making wild comments in a pandemic is irresponsible.

BobD
BobDVolunteer in reply to jondeanp

Sorry but I think you missunderstood ectopics stats jondeanp. The total of cardiac events caused by the vaccine is 1.2% The total number of cardiac related deaths in the world (not vaccine related )is 11% The two stats are not related from my reading of the post. They are not suggesting that 11% of all vaccine related deaths (albeit a very small number anyway) are cardiac related and even if they were that would be 11% of 1.2% which is small..

Alessa69
Alessa69 in reply to jondeanp

“Fatal Reactions “That quite a statement to make jondeanp ! Do you have any published evidence to back it up? You could well scare quite a lot of people with such a statement

tunybgur
tunybgur in reply to jondeanp

Just this morning I attended a funeral drive past (we're not allowed to go to the funeral anymore) of a good friend who died of covid19 a few weeks ago. He was 42, fit and with no underlying health conditions. He leaves behind a wife and two children.....I guess he was one of the 0.03%....it was 100% for him.

jondeanp
jondeanp in reply to tunybgur

I’m not disputing that people are dying with Covid but as per the stats in ectopic1’s post, people are also dying due to a reaction to the vaccine

tunybgur
tunybgur in reply to jondeanp

But it is concerning a few people here who are perhaps not capable of the mathematics necessary to understand the minute risk of a fatal reaction against the vaccine, and the much higher (although still very small) risk of a fatal covid infection.

Alessa69
Alessa69 in reply to jondeanp

Where is your link to published evidence on this please jondeanp ? Your broad statement could cause worry for many .

jondeanp
jondeanp in reply to Alessa69

It’s in the post from Hidden which I was initially responding too

I had AZ 10 days ago and no ill effects. If you read the leaflet in any box of tablets under side effects it will often list heart arrhythmia/disturbances/palpitations and elevated HR as possible, whether it is in common or rare side effects. I can’t see there would be a difference with these new vaccines, especially as they are new and no one can be 100% sure of all the side effects, as in any other drug. if the cases are very few who is to say they wouldn’t have been affected with AFib or any other heart related issue anyway in normal circumstances and is just coincidental? I am by no means decrying any concerns, is right to ask and fully accept that for some sick people it isn’t advisable just yet but I’m trying to be objective rather than subjective. For me personally I had the jab and would cope with any possible side effect somehow rather than take a chance and catch covid. It was a no brainer for me and I owed it to myself and the NHS. x

I had Ablation for Atrial fluttering the 14th December which so far had been a roaring success. Had my AstraZenica jab on Saturday. Only side effect was a headache and feeling tired.

Pleased to hear your news. I had a flutter ablation on 27th January and feel I’m doing really well. I am due my first vaccination on Thursday and have been getting gradually more and more apprehensive after comments on this forum. Hope your ablation recovery continues to be a success.

Why scare monger? 15 million people have had it including myself with absolutely nil side effects. Some people may get side effects some not but getting COVID to me is far worse. You also don’t know if the AF was due to the vaccine or happened for some other cause / reason. I get AF most days including since the vaccine but don’t blame the vaccine it’s what’s normal for me

Hearsay, not facts - I've seen and heard nothing anywhere that suggests this, and I've not seen anyone here report any problems.

kkatz
kkatz in reply to Jaws66

You are obviously not reading the posts.quite a few posts. I don't think anyone is scaremongering .It should be discussed and effects collated.I am waiting to see if my AF episode will settle before reporting via yellow card.I think I would rather have the second vaccine than covid but will need serious discussion with my doctor.

Tomred
Tomred in reply to Jaws66

My best friends sister in law has spent a full 5-6 days feeling very unwell after vaccine

This information is very clear, from the BHF: bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo...

OK - so you may have an effect after the jab, I had the Astra Zeneca one and felt a bit crappy for a couple of days. Like most of you it's preferable to getting covid. For those of you thinking of not taking the vaccine due to 'possible' side effects as it affects people differently I suggest you look at the leaflets of the 'possible' side effects of the majority of the drugs you are already taking.

That's possible I guess, but I've had it, not a peep, arm sore for 24 hours the only side effect I had ! People should have it its nasty, a chap I know in his 30s had it and was on oxygen for a week..very nasty for some...if you're offered it then have is my view !

Just for the record I had the AstraZeneca jab 12 days ago and have had absolutely no side effects. I am a symptomatic PAF sufferer since my AVR 2 years ago and was very concerned it would rear its ugly head again. However I’m so glad I went ahead. Good luck with your decisions hearties. Sue 🙏

I had the Pfizer vaccination 2 weeks ago, I didn’t experience any fibrillation post jab. I did have a sore arm and some muscle soreness the next day.

I had my vaccine on Monday and other than 24 hours of flu like symptoms I’ve been fine and my AF has not been triggered. I find it fascinating that people will attach such weight to anecdotal information and thus disregard factual science based evidence. They are not alike in weight and value! What is it about unlikely evidence that makes it so believable? It’s like conspiracy theories - most are indisputable nonsense and yet people get taken in. Read the science - go with the most likely explanation - not the most unlikely!

Stay safe everyone.

Who are BHP please?

Please can you tellMe who are BHP? Thank you

Samazeuilh
Samazeuilh in reply to Fibber222

Sorry, it was a typo: should have been BHF.

Buffafly
Buffafly in reply to Fibber222

I suspect it was a typo for BHF - British Heart Foundation. You can call them to speak to a nurse.

Fibber222
Fibber222 in reply to Buffafly

Thank you buffafly. It may have been coindence but like you I’ve 2 leaky valves but will continue with 2nd jab

I have PAF. Had the vaccine and have had NO side effects. All my friends have had it and none of them have had problems either. It is important to get the vaccine.

I agree that if these are known side affects we should be warned. I wasn't asked before I had the AZ Vaccination whether I had any heart condition or arrythmia. I had my first AZ jab 12 days ago and I didn't have any of the usual side affects like aching, headaches etc but site of injection a bit itchy. However for 2 days I have had some long runs ectopics on and off. Might be a side effect of the vaccination, but I do get these random runs every now and again. I used to suffer from very aggressive Paroxysmal AF but had Ablation 5 years ago so now just get occasional runs of ectopics.

There ya go😊.....,I knew that there would be an upside to being in persistent AF. That’s one side effect that I didn’t notice🤭

(Tongue in cheek....only joking...please don’t hit me😳)

Oh thank you

The one thing that I keep coming back to is "where would we be, what would we all be thinking right now, if no vaccine /s had been developed?" I dread to think. There are risks with every medicine - as individuals we are permitted to weigh up those risks and decide what we want to do. We had ours two weeks ago and have our second dose booked. Life is passing us by, we may not have too many years left and we hope that by having the vaccination if we do get covid, we will recover from it.

I have an arrhythmia but it has been no worse following vaccination with the Pfizer vaccine.

I suffer from Paroxysmal AF, had both my jabs now, no effect on AF.

I had the Pfizer jab 3 weeks ago and I have A F. I have had no side effects other like most people with a sore arm. But everyone is different depending on their own health.

I’m not making light of some people’s obvious concerns but I had the AstraZeneca vaccine on Monday, went to bed that evening with a headache and chills and woke up the next morning with no lower back pain (something I’ve had for 18 months now). Absolutely true story. Coincidence or side effect? We all have to make our own minds up on whether or not to get vaccinated but, without stating the blindingly obvious, it needs to be done using facts, data and an individual risk assessment for personal circumstances. Stay safe everyone

Lizty
Lizty in reply to Johnboy64

Stress levels dropped maybe!

Johnboy64
Johnboy64 in reply to Lizty

That’s interesting. That’s exactly what my daughter said. I actually hurt it wrapping Christmas presents 🤣 so didn’t really think of stress. Thanks for the reply

I now realise why I have never taken to social media. I joined this forum for information and support, but just reading this discussion, (and I haven't even got to the bottom yet), I find my HR and BP are rapidly increasing. Not finding this very therapeutic at all, so am now tempted to erase my profile and opt out.

Lizty
Lizty in reply to JK5AEO

This is a most unusual occurrence....but as you can see if you scroll, the great majority of contributors are saying that they have had the jab with minimal side effects. Never seen that many contributors here before!

JK5AEO
JK5AEO in reply to Lizty

I just find to atmosphere of social media conflict rather stressful, which is why I've always avoided it. Seems more harmful than helpful.

Buffafly
Buffafly in reply to JK5AEO

Just goes to show why some people should think more carefully before posting. The ‘I think you should know’ brigade are a PITA 🙄

Buffafly
Buffafly in reply to Buffafly

I try not to lose my temper but I did just then 😕

I wish I was as lucky as you Johnboy64. I have had back and neck pain for decades and I wish the jab had taken the pain away! I had my vaccine just over a week ago - it will be two weeks on Friday - Pfizer vaccine and no problems barely even a sore arm. I have been in NSR since early last February - so just over a year after my 3rd cardioversion so am hoping that I do not get my Afib back. My sister and most of her extended family have had Covid two were hospitalised - both under 25 but thankfully recovering now. My niece (age 50) is still quite ill a good 3 weeks after first falling ill. I also had two friends get it in early January (along with their daughter and her teenage children who had already had it a year ago) one has recovered while the other is still having a lot of illness. Both these families live in areas where there was one of the lowest amounts of Covid so very unlucky as well. I will keep you posted as to AF.

Johnboy64
Johnboy64 in reply to Desanthony

Thanks for the reply. My back pain wasn’t that bad so I sympathise with you for having it so long. I’m taking each AF free day as a bonus and trying not to do any to jeopardise it. Hope you stay AF free

Desanthony
Desanthony in reply to Johnboy64

Well I am trying hard to stay AF free that's for sure. You do get used to continual pain but it is a burden but better than alternative - I always say there are plenty of my friends and colleagues who would like to be this side of the grass with back pain. Each AF day is a bonus as you say. All the best. Des

Here in the UK we have the option to participate in an independent study both on how prevalent the virus is in the community AND what side effects you experienced after having the vaccine. I know the app as the ZOE app and its headed by Professor Tim Spectre. They have published a blog, accessed via the app, based on 40000 people providing feedback on the Pfizer vaccine. 1 in 7 get mild side effects from the first dose and 1 in 5 for the second.

Wife, who has PAF, is having her first jab tomorrow. Nothing in the blog made us feel she shouldn't have the jab.

For those in the UK can I recommend participating in the ZOE apps research on the vaccine side effects.

I agree. I feel as though I am making a useful contribution to research and there is lots of useful and honest information on there. X

"One of the nurses at BHP" What's BHP?

bantam12
bantam12 in reply to Thomas45

Typo BHF

My wife is a doctor who also volunteers at a vaccination centre. Her role is to consider whether those with various conditions should be allowed the jab on the day. She has taken an interest in side effects of the vaccines and has reviewed many yellow cards which feed back any post jab symptoms from patients after vaccination. She can categorically say that there is no evidence of this nurse's claim. Sounds like silly anti-vac scaremongering, which of course can (dangerously) gain traction on platforms such as this.The Zoe Imperial College's study backs this up too. Go with the science, not gossip.

bantam12
bantam12 in reply to Decaf_Andy

Absolutely no disrespect to your wife but the yellow card reports as of 31st Jan states for both vaccines " the overwhelming majority of reports relate to .......... rapid heartrate, generally these happen shortly after vaccination". People are reporting cardiac side effects.

It is similar with VAERS reporting on the CDC website. Heart arrhythmias seem a common side effect.

Wow I’m so glad that decided against taking it for this very reason !

I have ordered Ivermectin for myself and family instead. There is so much compelling info that this might be a better option for those with other health conditions. I have AF and also autoimmune disorders, there too many side effects from vaccines right now for me to consider.

Hi Border, have I missed something, not sure what Ivermectin is? Can you point me to your reliable source so I can take a look. I am a jab postponer as I have had an essentially AF free 7 yrs and don't relish the thought of 'waking the baby'.

Hello

This is a good place to start:

covid19criticalcare.com/

I had the vaccine (Moderna) and my heart had no reaction to it. The only colleague who had palpitations did so due to some anxiety shortly after getting her vaccine (Pfizer). She was fine for the second dose.

In all due respect, sounds like second or third hand information about "reports". What kind of reports? Are they published? What is the incidence? What exactly are "heart symptoms"? Do we even know how accurately they have been portrayed by the nurse?

I'm as much a skeptic as anyone, and certainly believe in due diligence, but I do hope people will dig a little deeper before making such an important decision. I have both afib snd aflutter and went ahead with the Pfizer vaccine weighing the risk of the injection triggering an episode.

Not that I have seen any evidence to support the vaccine triggering arrhythmias, but the conclusion I came to was that one or two episodes of afib or a flutter would be a reasonable trade off to be protected from Covid. It's been a week now after the second shot and no new afib or aflutter.

Jim

Hidden
Hidden

I had my first jab (Pfizer) 14 days ago. I have been fine. I will certainly have my second, due in 6 weeks. I am 72 and have permanent AFib. I chose not to take any exercise other than walking at a modest pace for the first ten days, though I have no evidence that this was a necessary precaution.

My understanding of the Yellow Card adverse reaction (AR)) reporting scheme in the UK, is that initial reports of ARs are purely anecdotal and of no significance until the MHRA have examined the data and concluded otherwise.

I think their is some misinformation here....This report states "Earliest Reaction Date: 19-Jan-2001" at the top of every page. That figure of 143 fatalities is misleading at best..

"The MHRA received 107 reports of death after the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, 34 after the AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccine, and 2 in which the brand of vaccine was unspecified. Most reports were for older people or people with underlying illness, the MHRA said, and a review of individual reports and patterns of reporting did not indicate that the vaccine played a role in the death. “We know, for instance, based on data from [the Office for National Statistics], that for every 100 000 doses given to people aged 80 or over, around 200 people die of natural causes within a week,”

bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n363

I had my first Oxford jab yesterday, and can confirm all sorts of uncomfortable reactions together with several runs of AF that resulted in a particularly horrid night. Still lots of problems, but hoping that things settle down. I would still much rather have the vaccine then not!

Covid-19 *INFECTION* is associated with many serious cardiac arrhythmias and atrial fibrillation patients who get COVID-19 are at risk for more serious disease with risk of complications and death. I am unable to find any published material associating COVID-19 vaccination with atrial fibrillation.

Because atrial fibrillation is common and in many people it is paroxysmal, it would be expected that with millions of people receiving the vaccine, that some people with paroxysmal atrial fibrillation would have an episode of atrial fibrillation that would occur regardless of having received the vaccine.

Of course discuss with your doctor about getting the COVID-19 vaccine, but for most of us with a fib, especially seniors, vaccination looks like the best course as of now.

So out of all these replies, has anyone had any worse arrhythmia or AF ? I had mine in mid Jan, n I didn't get any. Just a bit fluey. What about others ?

I was not replying to ectopic1..... I was replying to jondeanp . Should be visible if you look at the timeframe.

Flip it that's not what I wanted to hear I'm bad enough.thanks for posting.

There’s lots of “hearsay” around. There’s a reporting system in place and unless you have access to the you just can’t make any real sense of this. You have no way of knowing how many have had no heart rhythm problems in the same categories as those who might have - assessing percentages with side effects and without, to be able to assess the real risk can not be done by nurses!

Hi. I had the jag two weeks ago Pfizer. I had achy muscles, neck and lower back for a few days but also have had erratic heart rate and spikes up to 196bpm. I have heart failure and permanent a fib but had been well controlled with meds since December. I am fine if I sit about doing very little but if I try doing even light housework or prepare any food I get the heavy feeling in my chest and can feel my heart rate becoming erratic. Using my ECG Kardia I have been taking readings that can show normal rates ie. 85, 89 96 etc but the pattern shows it is very erratic. Two weeks in I am about to discuss with my cardio nurse as I feel unable to do a lot of the stuff I had began to build up doing. X

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