This is what my GP surgery sent - instead of the usual ‘annual conversation’ putting the onus on me to contact them if I want to talk about it.
Interesting way of presenting the stats, still won’t persuade me though.
So 15/100 will have a stroke. 5 will not because of taking statins.
If inflammation is the principle issue then there are alternative lifestyle measures to lowering inflammation so I’ll stick with those.
CDreamer, I refused statins too, but I am 'swithering' as to whether I should go back and get a prescription. There was a discussion a couple of weeks ago and another member directed me to qrisk.org/three/ which shows the risk. Then I went online and tried to get as much information as I could from reputable sources and there seemed to be a body of opinion that regards 'anti-statiners' in the same way as anti-vaxers are regarded by many. The jury is still out with me, but I find it totally unnerving when the 'stroke' sword is above me and I am apparently knowingly doing nothing about it.
Opinion is definitely split but based on all the information on my individual circumstances it’s the risk posed by the statins that far outweigh the possible benefits.
And my GP agrees. I’ll stick to my Reservertrol & plant sterols.
It is an interesting way, I agree. I went back and looked at the thread I was talking about, and here is the link should anyone like to see the discussion about statinshealthunlocked.com/afassoci...
I must remember to follow posts that I am interested in; I reread the whole thread again (with many more replies) and think I am being a bit of a wuss.
You’re not a wuss. I found the best, unbiased most knowledgeable opinions/information on the cholesterol forum - again split opinion 50/50.
I am happy to keep my total cholesterol under/around 7 but am much more interested in the HDL/LDL ratios & triglycerides numbers. They are all good.
The only case for statins that I can see is if you have familial high levels (many with total levels over 10) & then you need to be referred to a geneticist to establish that it is genetic when no amount of lifestyle will make much difference. I was offered a referral, if I would consider statins but as I knew I wouldn’t take them anyway, I didn’t take up the offer.
I'm going to have a look. Thank you.
Hi dreamer my Dr tells me my cholesterol is 7 and its very high and wants me on statins which I refuse I'm not totally gone on cholesterol been the culprit it's made out to be but with so so much info for and against its hard making decisions
You’re right, it’s really hard and everyone needs to make informed decisions about what is best for them but plowing through what is relevant to to you is complex as you need to take into account numerous factors.
The skeptic cardiologist site link above was useful I thought because it described screening & options instead of a blanket ‘you have ‘high’ cholesterol- you need to take a statin approach.
I just thought it’s an interesting way of presenting the stats.
Hi Irene,
What decision will you reach? I wonder. Great, you are questioning and researching. In my view, statins are not a blessing nor a curse. They do have unwanted side effects but potential benefits too. As often we need to decide on the balance of probabilities.
There are tests which quantify the existing level of artery obstruction you may have, if any. Such a test would help you to make an informed decision.
Best wishes
J (-:
There are many reputable cardiologists who are anti statins for primary prevention because they are convinced that there is no scientific validity whatsoever in the cholesterol causes heart disease theory. They point out very convincingly ( well to me anyway!) the flaws of this hypothesis ( not to mention the downright lies that have been promulgated to support it) . I would recommend the books of Michel de Lorgeril a French cardiologist who was the author of the Lyon study which showed the benefit of the Mediterranean diet for heart disease. His books have been translated into English. I remember doing a lot of research about 3 years ago when my husband had an "eye stroke". I looked at various clinical trials into statins for stroke and found that they had very little benefit. Indeed it appeared that low cholesterol was more of a risk especially in the elderly and women.. If as CDreamer says the sole benefit they confer is anti inflammatory and not due to cholesterol lowering then it seems counterproductive to lower cholesterol. There are plenty of anti inflammatory substances that do not have the cholesterol lowering effect. Statins are still big moneyspinners despite many being off patent. It makes sense to try to tar those who are sceptical of their benefits with the anti vaxx brush. There is an international association of docs and scientists who are cholesterol / statin sceptics . I think it is called Thincs. Remember the history of medicine is full of consensuses that were wrong wrong wrong but were upheld fiercely by the KOLs of the time. By the way the qrisk scoring system has been criticised for overstating risk.
I have stopped taken them myself as I do not have high cholesterol at all. But I would be interested to know the medication that stops inflammation if you have the names of any.
It’s not a med but food supplement & one is a herbal - good for recovery.
Resveratrol is a natural occurring phenol found in purple foods - skin of red/purple grapes & certain roots. Available in dried powder but I take as liquid concentrate.
Astragalus is the herbal remedy, very well known & recommended by many doctors within Lifestyle Medicine.
All brassicas are rich in polyphenols which are excellent antioxidants & anti inflammatory so eating at least 1/2 daily portions Eli’s a good idea.
I will try those then CDreamer
Curcumin is anti inflammatory but not recommended for those on anti coags as it has "thinning" properties. My GP thought a low dose would be ok. Turmeric in cooking is fine. Look up anti inflammatory food supplements.
I am no longer on anticoagulants but I was taking them for pain in my knees but they did nothing and I have just read up on them and read that. So I have started them again. I do take Aspirin though as well and blood pressure tablets. Coq10 is also meant to be good for inflammation. I have been taking them. Thanks for your reply
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Thank you, I will certainly look at the Lyon study. And very interesting what you say about the qrisk scoring system although I am not sure if that is the one my GP used. I have followed the Mediterranean diet for years (although I do enjoy a few treats). I have come to the conclusion that my stroke risk is mainly because of AF and I cover that by anti-coagulation.
Interestingly when my mother moved to sheltered accommodation her new doctor looked at all the medication she was taking, shook her head and said it had to be reviewed. She took her off everything (including statins) apart from her cancer medication and paracetamol. Much later she had to prescribe medication for achalasia, but my mother went on to live until she was 97.
I am with you. Years ago when every GP was prescribing statins to anyone and everyone he put me on them and i had dizziness and fainting episodes. I came off them and now with only slight changes to my diet - though over lockdown and then Christmas this may have changed my cholesterol levels wnet down to actually just below normal - I think they were only a little higher in the first place actually. My sister however, has chosen to go on them in the last year and is now having problems with them. I don't think that I will be likely to go back on them unless many things change either with me or with the statins themselves.
My cholesterol is perfect but I keep taking statins for their myriad of other benefits.
Not only taken as anti inflammatory, antioxidants and keeping arteries supple, they ;
Lower blood pressure.
Alleviate anxiety and depression
Protect the liver and kidneys.
Have some antiarrhythmic benefits.
Known help with certain cancers.
The good thing about these is that if one doesn't agree with you then some other likely will.
Hi,
They do all that?
I don’t want my BP lowered, rather the oppositeI don’t have anxiety or depression
I’m not in arrythmia
I’m screened every 3 months for liver and kidney function
I would like to know the science behind ‘may help with certain cancers’?
It’s a bit like religion and politics, who you choose to believe and place your trust because the case against is powerful and apart from the Nocebo affect, have been shown a tendency for people to weight gain and developing diabetes, and to lower CoQ10 which is an essential enzyme for healthy Mitochondria. CoQ10 declines with age and most cardiologists agree that taking CoQ10 is advisable, especially if you are taking statins.
My main reason for not accepting statins is that I have neuromuscular disease and therefore contraindicated. It is very much an individual’s decision.
There are always 2 sides to an argument however, GP advice is often nuanced and influenced by the payment they receive for advising you to take statins so I would urge everyone to question, question, question the reasoning behind being advised to take any medicine, know why you are taking it and know both sides of the argument so you can decide, with your doctor, whether or not the benefits outweigh the risks.
Not everyone who takes a statin will have side effects, but some people may be at a greater risk than are others. Risk factors include:
Taking multiple medications to lower your cholesterol
Being female
Having a smaller body frame
Being age 80 or older
Having kidney or liver disease
Drinking too much alcohol
Having certain conditions such as hypothyroidism or neuromuscular disorders including amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS)
Mayo clinic.
I was surprised by this list of benefits. I did some research and they seem very over-blown. For instance, some of the research on depression shows a very marginal benefit which is possibly due to confounders that are not allowed for:thelancet.com/journals/lanp...
other show a negative effect particularly if cholestrol is lowered too much:
researchgate.net/publicatio...
I have myself tried statins for AF for 3 months 10 years ago when my AF was as regular as clockwork (1 day AF, 2 days no AF) and it had no effect.
I totally agree with doctors and Big Pharma when it comes to emergencies but in stark contrast I have little faith in their recommendations when it comes to keeping healthy due to personal experience. My simplistic approach is you don't swallow a pill prescribed by the regular medics unless it is essential as all of them can unbalance the sophisticated mechanism of the body. Famous last words!
Definitely don't want my bp lowered as it is low anyway - which was probably why I had all the dizziness and fainting. Anxiety and Depression doesn't affect me and neither do I have problems with liver and kidney which I am screened for every 6 months as for the cancer and AF benefits well that didn't come into the equation at the time it was just a time when GP's were putting people on them willy nilly if they were over a certain age. I encouraged my wife to have checks - he cholesterol was considerably higher than mine but her Doc refused to put her on them. He believed they were over hyped as a cure/all. Each to his own but based on my experience I would not go back on them unless there was a really good reason put forward by a consultant to go on them again.
You are sooo lucky to be in perfect health.So you don't have cancer so you avoid turmeric in your food.
You have no arrhythmia so avoid foods containing magnesium.
No high blood pressure so avoid beets, carrots, broccoli etc.
Your liver and kidneys are perfect so why bother with stuff that can keep them perfect.
Statins are designed to lower bad cholesterol and not for the other benefits that they coincidently may have.
It is disputable whether there is any need to lower cholesterol at all for anybody who does not have FHC.
I would err on the side of caution.
The side of caution is not filling your body with chemicals that disrupt metabolic pathways ( such as the mevalonate one in the liver) which nature has evolved over millions of years to make stuff which is essential to our functioning because greedy drug companies want a never ending cash cow. What is the point of reducing cholesterol if the drug that does it stops the production of Co enzyme Q 10 which is necessary for the functioning of our muscles? What is the most important muscle in our bodies? Those of us with afib are probably at greater risk of congestive heart failure. There is Japanese research implicating statins in CHF. What is the point of taking a drug which increases the risk of type 2 diabetes when that is a risk factor for heart disease?
I was put on statins 6wks ago suffered from headache and nausea dr advised me to come off them lose weight and watch diet I have done this before and it worked . Not easy but those statins can certainly make you feel terrible .
To take or not to take. Do you join the 8 million people who do or do you not?
"They are designed to reduce levels of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, which is linked to increase in heart attacks and strokes, but the latest study, published in the BMJ Evidence Based Medicine, claims dozens of randomised controlled trials failed to show statins provide any consistent benefit.
The authors reviewed 35 clinical trials comparing treatment with one of three types of cholesterol lowering drugs – statins, ezetimibe, and PCSK9 – with a placebo for a period of at least a year in at-risk patients. Each of the trials was categorised according to whether it met the LDL cholesterol reduction target outlined in the 2018 American Heart Association and American College of Cardiology guidelines."
Paul Gallagher - The i news August 3 2020.
If you wish to be persuaded it is up to you to do some research to validate your decision. GP's have gov't targets to meet to get certain payments so their advice may be biased.
I was put on a statin in hospital after having a stroke thrombolised. My cholesterol was not measured but I know I hovered around 5.7/9 it is now down to 3.5. I was never advised to take statins before the stroke as my LDL/HDL ratio was good. I was already on Ramipril for some years and I've been taking CoQ10 for about 20 years. My stroke was entirely due to aFib. Yes I'd like to stop taking them, along with beta blockers, diuretics, anti coagulants etc but the alternative is worse. CD, the GP knows you won't take them so why should he waste his time and effort trying to persuade you otherwise? He's bound by a duty of care to keep a check on you and that's what he's doing.
GP agrees in my best interest NOT to take statins as I describe above, contraindicated for anyone with They need to have the annual conversation to tick the box purely to get funding. Exactly what my GP told me.
According to the legend above 15/20 people taking statins will still go on to have stroke or heart attack.
So sorry about your stroke & do hope you recovered.
I am reading the book "The truth about statins" by Barbara Roberts MD. Very informative. There seems to be little difference between those who take statins and those who not when it comes to having a hard attack. 1% she states are saved from a heart attack by taking statins but the side affects are far more serious.
My doctor told me to stop taking them. I do not have high cholesterol at all and I began to suffer pain in all my joints.
Also I know quite a few people who have been prescribed statins, nothing to do with the heart but have declined to take them and a few I know have had side affects so stopped taking them
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