A-fib & Keto

[Herogenus]

Hello everyone. Meds are 2.5mg Bisoprolol & eliquis 5mg twice per day. Ive had paroxysmal a-fibfor 12 years. I have a big weight problem here & at the age of 66 its worrying me sick. Decided on the keto method but now I'm reading it can cause heart rhythm problems which is the last thing I need. Anyone with any experience of keto & this possible side effect? Thank you.

[doodle68]

Hi Herogenus 😊 I would say short term 'diets' are a waste of time, permanent lifestyle changes are the way to go .

The mediterranean style of eating or diet is recommended for AFibbers by many including Dr Gupta who makes the videos about AF...

youtu.be/GDJDP7Xg1G0(Not working as expected?)

With lifestyle changes I lost 1.5 stone 3 years ago and I have not put it back on.

[Herogenus in reply to doodle68]

I know Dr Gupta on YouTube but havnt seen this, thank you!

[Paulbounce]

Sorry Herogenus but I can't answer this. However this link may (or may not) be useful.

healthline.com/nutrition/ke...

Weight lose will certainly help afib. Maybe it's worth a natter with your doc to discuss the best way's to do this.

Please don't think I'm being simplistic here - I'not. Eat less and exercise more will help - easy to say I know but not so easy to practise. I'm with you on that one

Good luck whatever you decide.

Paul

EDIT - I'll leave the link up but I'm always a bit nervous when 'pop up' adverts appear.

Just saying - although some of the info there might be very good.

[PlanetaryKim]

Hidden is a very knowledgeable & experienced member here on keto diet and afib. Maybe he will chime in.

[Buffafly]

Have you watched the recent Dr Mike Mosely TV programme on the 800 diet? I think older people need to follow a less extreme version though. My husband is prediabetic so we are going to get the cookbook. I have no knowledge about the arrhythmia problem but in my experience arrhythmia can be blamed on almost anything 😕 however being overweight is certainly a cause of AF.

[Herogenus in reply to Buffafly]

No I haven't but I'm up for any recommendations, thank you for your input.

[Auriculaire in reply to Buffafly]

I am very sceptical of these low calorie diets. It has been known for some time that the body panics when calories are drastically reduced "thinking" that it is subjected to famine and as a result the metabolic rate is lowered so as to preserve life. This was an evolutionary strategy for survival. The result is that when more calories are consumed ( impossible to live healthily off 800 calories a day indefinitely ) there is even more weight gain . There is no magic to eating healthily. It means work- ie ridding oneself of the notion that nutritious food is produced in factories, comes ready made, can be heated in the microwave in minutes and being prepared to cook from scratch with fresh ingredients every day. Anything that comes in packets /tins/containers needs to be treated with suspicion and the ingredients carefully scrutinised to search out hidden sugars and hydrogenated fats. Some exceptions can be made but they should not be consumed regularly . The occasional biscuit/ packet of crisps / piece of cake will not harm but occasional does not mean daily or even weekly! This is a message that I find is not really spelled out that much in advice about diet especially if it is coming from government as they do not wish to offend the food industry . After all they make their profits from selling junk and pretending it is food. When we first came to live here in France obesity was uncommon amongst young and middle aged adults and almost completely absent in children. There was also very little ready made food available in the supermarkets. None the less people ate what seemed to us large meals with many courses. A normal lunch would consist of soup/ starter , main course , cheese and pudding! You still get this when in hospital ! Obesity has gone up with departure from the traditional diet and the appearance of more ready meals and confectionary in the supermarkets ie junk.

Any regime that aims for a large weight loss over a short time period is doomed to failure. Weight loss should be very slow over a long period of time so the body does not really notice it. It is also known tbat dieting unsuccessfully (ie putting the weight and more back on) is actually worse for the body than never losing it in the first place. Dieting rather than eating moderately and healthily actually causes obesity.

[Buffafly in reply to Auriculaire]

I would have agreed with all of that until I saw the last episode of ‘Lose a stone in 21 days’ I mentioned above. Apparently the latest research shows a different result, but they did stress that participants should continue with a lower carb diet and super nutritious food at all times to maintain their progress.

Your comment reminds me of the day I was in the supermarket and heard the following conversation:

Male exchange student 1 : What are those jars for?

M e s 2 : They are cooking sauces, British housewives are too lazy to cook themselves.

[Auriculaire in reply to Buffafly]

As if cooking was only for women!!

[chevidaniels28]

I don’t have afib but I have SVT and take 2.5MG Bisoprolol. I have been doing keto since May 12 and I have lost 3 stone. I personally found it didn’t trigger my arrhythmia or cause me anymore palpitations than I would normally get. I found the keto diet helped give me energy and improve my mood. The only negative side effects I got were cystic acne and my periods become irregular. I downloaded the My Fitness Pal app and got myself food scales and they have been a life saver. It’s not an easy diet and you really get sick of the offerings of restricted choices but for me it was the best diet and the weight loss was incredible. The only thing my doctor suggested were multi vitamins as keto diet and restricted calories can make it difficult getting all your nutrition.

[Herogenus in reply to chevidaniels28]

Thank you! & so well done on your achievement. I take on board your experience. I'm hoping that the expected weight loss is going to help & general health & therefore my heart.

[Andyt36]

Great video in its simplicity

[SophieBella]

I went on the Keto diet for a year and took all the right vitamins, although I still had constant AF. I had 8 cardioversions and one ablation. I think its great for weight and general health, although unfortunately in me it did not help with AF which was the reason for going on it. I am still following a low carb diet tho as I believe it is the way to go. Scientifically it makes sense for weight, inflamation, diabetes etc.

[Lamadre]

I have lost just over a stone with Slimming World. You can follow this online or join a local group for support. Easy to follow and very few restrictions, it seems to be excluding sugars and fats mainly. Of the healthy food choices you can eat as much as you like so you never feel starved as on some other diets. It’s a lifestyle change about food choices, I was doubtful at first but total convert now!

[doodle68 in reply to Lamadre]

Hi Lamadre 😊 well done for the weight loss. The problem with 'diets' like Slimming world is people almost always put the weight back on. Family members have used it with success but have always returned to their previous weight and more.

What is needed to help AF (and many other conditions) is to lose weight and keep it off and that requires permanent lifestyle changes, training yourself to eat less/eat healthily/take regular exercise.

I haven't put on any of the weight I lost (1.5 stones) 3 years ago when first diagnosed with P-AF after reading about the LEGACY study in my research that found a 10% 𝘮𝘢𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘥 weight loss had been found to reduce the AF burden and I believe I may have slowed the progression of my P-AF for 3 years with weight loss.

I am still not the ideal weight with a BMI below 25 and am just about to start again with another reducing eating plan to achieve another %10 weight loss to see if it will help my P-AF further.

Good luck with maintaining your weight loss and stay well..😊

This is a link to the LEGACY study on weight loss for those with AF put in simple terms in this article....

mdedge.com/anticoagulationh...

[Lamadre in reply to doodle68]

Hi doodle68, I agree entirely that it has to be a sustainable change in diet in order to keep the weight off. I do pilates and tai chi and our dog and the garden keep me active. I’m now very aware of healthy eating choices and still manage the odd pub lunch without putting weight back on. Well done on your weight loss, I’ll read the link you posted, thanks!

[Buffafly]

I have just received the latest online issue of ‘Heart Matters’ magazine from the BHF which features advice about weight loss. If you go to the British Heart Foundation website you’ll find lots of non-faddy advice about healthy eating.

[Hidden]

I have been keto for over 2 years now. After reaching my goal weight, I just upped my carbs (only from non-starchy vegetables) until I stopped losing. Also, at the lower weight you have to recalculate all the macros, and if losing weight is no longer a goal, carb grams go up (but not by a huge amount) , fat grams go down and protein still stays moderate.

You can stay on keto indefinitely, according to our nutritionist and my cardiologist. It is not an eat all you want bacon and steak diet and people who do not fully understand it are quick to pronounce it unhealthy. When done right it is a healthy, anti inflammatory diet.

I usually have an egg for breakfast and my cardiologist is fine with even 2 eggs per day. I also have half an avocado. No toast, no orange juice, no Danish. I drink Decaf coffee with coconut cream. I don't use any artificial sweeteners. I no longer have that blood sugar spike after cereal, toast, OJ etc. and then the let down. I used to need to top off the sugar around 10 am, but not any more. My hunger is quelled until lunchtime.

For lunch I have a large salad of romaine lettuce, raw cauliflower, raw broccoli, flax or chia seeds, with some form of protein on top. Usually it is sliced organic chicken breast or tuna fish. For dressing I have Organic Olive Oil and a little organic balsamic vinegar. I can, depending on my macros, have a few cherry tomatoes and a few slices of onion too. When I used to eat sandwiches, hamburgers etc. for lunch I always needed a nap afterward and by 3pm I was stuffing my face with chips or candy. Now, without the bread I am energetic and satisfied until dinner.

For dinner I have a serving of protein about the size of a deck of cards. Organic, free range Chicken, grass fed beef, wild caught fish or grass fed lamb. We also have 2 servings of organic non-starchy vegetables like cabbage, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, zuchinni, broccoli, kale or other greens. Green beans and carrots are a nice treat, but tend to be higher in carbs so maybe once or twice a month I get those. Peas and Lima Beans are not allowed. I only have red meat maybe once a week.

For dessert I usually have strawberries or raspberries with whipped cocount cream. We also keep a jar of 88% chocolate bark with macadamia nuts in the fridge for an occasional treat high fat treat to get up to the required fat macros.

I started out on 20 grams of carbs per day, 80 fat grams and 30 protein grams. Now that I am at my goal weight I eat 35-45 grams of carbs daily, 50 grams of good fats ( organic olive oil, organic coconut oil, organic avocado oil) and still around 30 grams of protein.

Ditching high sugar fruits, gluten, dairy products, artificial sweeteners, sugar, and processed food has no allowed me to go 19 months without an A Fib attack. My BP dropped 45 points, my weight went down 45 pounds, and my triglycerides dropped like a rock. My HDL/LDL ratio is perfect. I feel great.

My cardiologist said that if I had not come to him already on keto and gluten and dairy free he would have put me on that diet. He said I can have Stevia or Monkfruit if I want something to taste sweet, but I no longer crave anything sweet since I have been off it for so long.. I also drink decaffinated green tea as well as lots of Fuji, Evian or Panna still water. No sparkling water, not even Pellegrino, because it causes me gas, which is a known A Fib trigger for me. If I do feel bloated or gassy at bedtime, I take one Gas X Ultra and that heads off the possibility of a gas induced AFib attack.

Keeping a food diary was very helpful and identified those foods that caused me gastric distress. For example, I can eat grass fed beef once in a while, but commercially produced grain fed beef just sits in my gut like a ton of bricks and does not digest.

Our nutritionist sells a grain free, yeast free bread mix that is made with almond and coconut flour and flaxseed and psyllium husk. It is only 2 grams of carbs per slice, so that is allowed. My wife makes me sugar free jam every week with monkfruit and stevia and a berry mix that includes blackberries, strawberries and raspberries. I don't feel in the bit deprived.

The one diet I reject outright is the American Heart Association diet. It is a carb fest and for me that is a huge problem. I was put on it years ago and ended up with higher triglycerides from the carbs, a huge weight gain, and endless A Fib attacks. What was even more maddening was the cardiologist who prescribed it accused me of not sticking to it!

[JFMass]

Here's my story with Keto:

I was a moderately active male in my 30's, and I was overweight. Not that much obese, but definitely had a belly. I definitely fit that 30 something overweight but strong and powerful athlete. I was very fast in sports and it was easy to believe being overweight wasn't too much of a problem. Started having AF around 30 while I did weight around 235 lbs but was in a very active period. I also worked shifts and sleeping during the day had always been difficult for me (definitely a contributing factor). Long story short, Metoprolol made me gain 30 lbs and made any sport performance horrible (you actually need your heart to reach 150 bpm while playing hockey). Tried couple other medications and since none did work and blood thinner are particularly incompatible with being a firefighter my cardiologist sent me to get ablation. Surgeon said he thinks he missed it because he could not totally reach part of the atrial vessel and if I still had AFib one month after he'd redo it using another method in a couple months.

Three months later no real progress I am still experiencing afib. My mother in law was advised by her physician she might be a good candidate for a keto lifetstyle, that many of her patients had success with diabetes. So I decided to research it carefully and give it a try.

Started losing weight slowly from 244 lbs after surgery to < 210 lbs. AF got a little bit worse for the first few weeks during adaptation, but then episodes started to space out only to disappear after about three months. Might have something to do with weight loss more than keto, could also just be ablation took more time to take effect. I also had changed job for a less tiring shift schedule 8 months prior to ablation. I'm not fulling giving credit to keto for getting rig of afib, it's probably just one of many life changes that happened over one year.

Now, Keto had some other 'secondary effects' aside from weight loss.

1) Seasonal allergies disappeared.

2) Crave vegetables (!!)

3) More energy

4) Never hungry, some days I had to make an effort to eat more food to reach my 2200 cal goal because I didn't feel hungry after 1800 cal.

5) Got rid of sugar addiction, and this is a BIG thing. When they say sugar is more addictive than cigarette, I am a living proof that it can be true. This is something I've had been aware for a decade and only on keto could I get rid of it, and it only took a couple days. Just for this, keto did some magic.

6) She swears it got bigger (!!)

Also comes with some downsides, however:

1) It sucks for explosive anaerobic performance. While I've seen aerobic really improve, but playing hockey and weightlifting progress is harder. I'm at an age where a 600 lbs deadlift is less important than not having afib, however, and everyone can be slower in beer league hockey.

2) You kinda get the same look vegans get when you get to visit friends and family for dinner.

3) Try not to get into arguments with people trying to argue with you.

I don't really call keto a diet, I call it more a lifestyle because this is something I permanently adopted. Below 210 lbs I transitioned more into a low carb lifestyle just because it removes the burden of having to hold a nutritional log and is more permissive when playing sports. I also kinda cheat on vacations, holidays and special events, after which I usually go a 2-3 weeks full blown keto just to reset my body into low carbs again.

Just came back from vacations and after a lot of cheating and alcohol, I'm back on keto, this time I might keep it longer and go down and stabilize around 190-200 lbs.

Noteworthy stuff:

-Be prepared for a lot of avocados, pack up on olive oil reserve and get used to coconut oil in your coffee

- >90% of what they sell as keto friendly stuff still packs too much carbs and/or the wrong sweeteners. Be prepared to cook (a lot) more and become an actual decent chef, since you won't rely on sugar for taste and you'll learn how to use herbs and spices.

-Chicken broth was a huge savior when in carb withdrawal / keto flu. It doesn't last long, however.

[Adasian]

Didn’t know this was the cause but after being on the Keto diet for a few months and lost weight started having feelings of fainting and subsequently was diagnosed with AFIB after a heart monitor.. Maybe it is related.