I've been toying with the idea of changing my diet to Plant based. Many years ago in my 20's.... I went vegan but went back to eating meat after a few years. I never mastered vegetarian cooking and am not a huge fan of Legumes (beans!) But I'm willing to try anything to find some well-being again.
I'm trying to work with Fibromyalgia as well as intermittant AFibb. I'm reading a book called The Forks Over Knives plan a 4 week plan with great looking recipes. It does feel like a huge thing to take on but as I said I'm prepared to do anything to get my energy back. This is the diet that Bill Clinton took up after his heart surgery and it has helped him a lot he says. The diet was devised by doctors and the forward to the book is written by Dr Dean Ornish.
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I was vegetarian for 20+ years while living in a country that had decidely dodgely meat and fish supplies.Never felt better and raised a child to age 12 as a vegetarian......healthiest kid on the block!
After a gap of some years on very small meat/fish intake have now gone back to 90% vegetaranism.All round I feel very well and I will not see 80 again.
Seek out tasty recipes as this is what veg. cooking is all about.
Quite ! My wife has been veggie for nearly thirty years and I tend to eat with her at least four nights a week. She cooks most things from scratch with lots of spices and flavour. A lot of people who eat with us are never aware that the cottage pie they ate was veggie!
Thanks 10 ginger cats. I'm going towards it slowly. Cutting out meet first then fish then eggs and cheese. The book I'm reading is very helpful. Have you got 10 ginger cats or have you HAD 10 ginger cats. I've got my first ginger cat and I'm madly in love with him. I usually try to get tabbies but this guy is sweeter than sweet and so affectionate. I adopted him in May he's about a year old now. He's divine!!
I have been vegetarian, gluten, sugar & dairy free several long periods during my life and it undoubtedly helped & I felt more energetic because of it but I still had AF.
Now I do 85%ish plant based plan but eat fish x2 weekly, I also eat red meat once a week because I am very prone to anaemia & nutritionally best source for me. I try to avoid any preserved meat but I do crave a good peppered Salami so indulge occasionally.
I stick with 100% grass fed, organic, local meat, fish etc which is really easy for people like Bob & I as we live close to the coast & farms.
I think unadulterated, organic & local is as important for me. I don’t follow any particular eating plan but aim to eat at least 50 different foods per week - often over 20 in a day.
Thanks CDreamer, When you say you eat 50 different foods per week and often 20 in a day what exactly do you mean? I do get that meat feels like the best place to get protein and fish also. I'm wondering for me though if it's some brain washing. If one is off all meat and fish it's important to take a vit b12 supplement which helps with pernicious anemia. I'm also glutton free already and don't do much dairy except for sheep's cheese but I can let that go. Thank you for sharing with me.
I like meat, I was advised by nutritionist to eat meat as the best form of iron & B12 for absorption but once a week is sufficient and I don’t have pernicious anaemia so I don’t see any reason to take a capsule when I have easy availability to organic, grass fed meat from local farms which I can buy from directly.
I believe food can be our medicine, we don’t need nutrition from capsules, if we can possibly avoid it. I do take some food supplements such as CoQ10, VitC, VitD & Glucosamine but that’s mainly it. I follow Dr’s Kitchen - Dr Ruby recipes because he also describes the food content and how the role each food plays in our diet. He speaks from experience as he developed AF as a young hospital doctor and instead of turning to drugs, went back to his Indian roots and used food. He is mainly vegetarian and I just love his recipes. When you look at Eastern and Middle Eastern foods you will rarely get a recipe with less than 10 ingredients and when you make your own spice mixes you start to appreciate the variety and the potency of these foods.
Last night’s meal was baked salmon with chilli sauce (home made) with Chinese stir fried shredded Hispi Cabbage with red and white onion, garlic, ginger, chilli, 5-spice, rice wine, miso paste, ground salt and rainbow peppercorns and lime, served with red rice - now that’s 10 ingredients, not counting the salt and pepper which also count.
I eat a wide variety of foods including fruit, wide range of vegetables, grains, pulses, seeds, nuts, dried fruit, I make my own kefir and sometimes lacto fermented veg and sour dough and Irish seeded soda bread and use lots of Herbs (mostly home grown) and spices. Add all that up and you soon come to 20 different foods per day - you can manage that in one salad! A veg smoothie can have 10 ingredients.
Eating variety is important so the expression is - Eat the rainbow - colour indicates different chemicals so all purple foods contain chemicals which are anti-inflammatory which is how Resveratrol contcentrate is made. Blueberries and blackberries have a high concentration of phytochemicals which have the potential to reduce the risk of dementia & heart disease, All the brassicas are a must, especially cauliflower and red cabbage. Make a slaw from 3 types of cabbage, delicious! Broccoli sprouts are one of the most nutrient dense foods you can eat. I could go on and on.
Thank you so much CD. Makes me realize I'm on the way to eating like that already. I l love to eat a variety of food in the way you describe. I have to feel into this diet stuff a bit more I reckon. There are so many conflicting ideas around nowadays. Thanks again. Have a lovely day.
We are in same fortunate position . Get our meat from a friends farm, eat very little, but what we so eat is great quality. Beloved at 84 needs reliable source of iron . Large plate of fruit for breakfast, sometimes porridge . We eat masses of fruit & vegetables , 3/4 of plate always
I've been pretty much whole-food-plant-based for about three & a half years. Not sure if it's helped or not so far really as my AF kicked off around that same time. I'm fairly sure the AF was related to a good few years of a combination of stress and intense exercise. I had also previously been on an extremely high fat (dairy) vegetarian diet which had resulted in a massively high cholesterol reading. The vegan diet sorted the cholesterol out within six months, though, and amazed my doctor no end!
I watched a presentation on youtube yesterday on"How to Beat Heart Disease - with Dr. Kim Williams". Dr Williams is plant based and is head of the cardiology department at Rush University Hospital in Chicago. He was also the president of the American College of Cardiology 2015/16.
At around the 1 hour 25 minute point afib comes up in the q & a and the answer sounds very positive.
Thanks for that Barny, It's very interesting indeed.....
I've been reading a lot about Insulin Resistance and how too many carbs including fruit cause this and effect the blood vessels causing plaque to form and on from there. I've been to a nutritionist who advocates having good oils butter, extra virgin olive oil, meat and fish and cutting way down on Carbs. I've not been overdoing the meat. Just some chicken now and then and fish a few times a week, and vegetarian food about 3 days a week. I got interested in going vegan again because a couple I know have done this and can't believe how well they feel on it. It's terribly confusing I have to say. The nutritionist is of the school of thinking, now out there, that having high cholesterol is not a problem UNLESS you've had a heart attack already. There's now evidence to show that Statins are not useful and literally only lengthen your life by a few days. Again unless you've had a heart attack....then you need to take them... I have no link to show for this but it seems to be the latest thinking on diet and heart disease. I have actually tried intermittent fasting and low carb high, fat diet but it didn't agree with me. I didn't feel well on it. I think I'll try Dr Li's book. I'm realizing also that one size doesn't fit all as far as diet is concerned. As CDreamer said we all have different reactions to foods. I do think some people need meat and others thrive without it. I just need to tune into my body and see what it needs rather than what it WANTS and DESIRES. Thank you for your input.
Have a look the book Eat to Beat Disease and find out which foods to include in your diet. Improving our health is about overall lifestyle and what we eat is a significant part of that.
That’s a great recommendation - I was just listening to one of Dr Li’s podcasts. He really has done the research on food as medicine and the stuff he says about which foods help which disease is very interesting.
Would echo what others have said, the Dr Rupy diet is very good, lots of fresh ingredients. I would be wary of focusing on terms like vegan or vegetarian exclusively, the key I think is organic (does cost) and more importantly unprocessed, there is a fair bit of processed veggie stuff around which is just as rubbish as anything else. Fresh and unprocessed is the key for AF or just good health generally
Andy
The health benefits of any diet are impossible to ascertain unless there have been very carefully controlled clinical trials involving large groups who stick exactly to the trial diet and who are then compared with another group on no particular diet. Since no such trials ever take place, any claim that one particular diet will have a role to play in controlling heart rhythm must be treated with extreme scepticism.
Absolutely. The only really reliable RCTs on diet have to be done on captive populations ie those in prisons, mental hospitals or institutions for the handicapped ( not so many of those around these days) where there can be no deviation from the diet because there is no choice for the participants. Most diet studies which rely on self reporting are useless. I am very sceptical of this "plant based" stuff. What exactly is it for a start ? Is it really veganism mark2 ? In which case why the new name? How much is it promoted by those who are into veganism for ethical or cultural reasons? The 7th day Adventists are big movers and shakers in vegetarianism and veganism especially in the USA and Australia . They believe eating "flesh" leads to debauchery. Creating tasty vegan food from scratch is a lot harder work than cooking with meat or fish . I am a good cook and cooking for my vegan son in law was always much more labour intensive -certainly to produce something that I considered fit to eat . He had lower standards going by the food he cooked himself!
I think as human beings we have developed all sorts of diets, mainly through what was immediately available in our environment. It’s only since we moved to processed foods and were able to transport foods over vast distances that we have had such diversity that we are able to have the luxury of choice.
But eating for health is individual and actually the 85% plant based food has shown to have major health benefits. I have to agree with you re vegan food, I can do the occasional meal but normally forget that one or other ingredient comes from animal source! Well done you!
Plant based diet, as far as I am concerned, doesn’t exclude fish, eggs, occasional meat or a small amount of dairy - it just means that 85% of what we consume has a plant rather than an animal source.
I no longer have to cook for him as he's an ex son in law in a way as his wife ( my husband's daughter) died 12 years ago. He has not visited since 2013. I have become very bolshi about cooking and now refuse to cook for vegetarians. My husband will only eat vegetarian food occasionally and I no longer have the energy to cook 2 main dishes. Luckily we have 2 kitchens so anybody staying who does not want to eat what I choose to cook can cook for themselves downstairs. Personally I am happy with well cooked vegetarian or vegan food and will sometimes choose it if it is on the menu. This is not often as France is carnivore land especially round here - the home of the race Limousin cattle. I am not keen on beef and never eat steak so I am regarded as odd by French standards here! The vegetarian choices also tend to be rather mundane and nowhere near as good as what I can produce myself. We do eat fish , poultry , meat or eggs for our main meal but in very small quantities.
Just for clarity: veganism is an ethical practice that eschews all animal products or products that involve animal exploitation including dairy and honey.
"Plant based" is usually just an abbreviated version of "whole food plant based" which eschews all animal products including dairy in favour of unprocessed and unrefined plant foods on health grounds.
Oh dear- my son in law has always been a smug "moral high ground" vegan BUT he keeps bees and extracts honey! We keep bees too but never take "their"honey. Only what they make over and above what is necessary for them to survive the winter. This year is the first for 3 years that we can harvest any.
In my experience vegetarian means different things to different people, Vegan is more understandable.
I always found it funny that no-one ever objects morally or ethically to eating plants. Yet plants are also sensory beings (albeit without a nervous system).
I did once come across a group who campaigned against the practice of bonsai On the basis of cruelty to plants at a very large Flower Show.
I think Dr Li’s research is probably the gold standard so far.
Personally I don’t think controlled clinical trials are appropriate for food simply because we all react so differently and there are so many variables anyway eg: gut Microbiome.
Absolutely! They do not account for biochemical and genetic differences between us.
What is good for you may be poison for me. Gluten and dairy are at the top of my list of poisons and also my wife's. Any ingestion of gluten gives me a headache and I feel like I am coming down with the flu. My poor wife will have projectile vomiting and explosive diarrhea within an hour. She progresses to dry heaves when she runs out of stomach contents. This normally lasts 4 hours or more for her and then she is miserable for days.
You eat what works for you, and I eat what works for me. We consulted a board certified nutritionist when my wife was diagnosed with celiac. He ordered additonal testing on both of us. By changing our diets and adding supplements, he has changed our lives for the better. We both are better in our late 60's than we were 30 years ago when my cardiologist put me on the American Heart Association diet. My wife was not about to be a short order cook so everyone in the family ate it. It was heavy on grains, which was poison for all of us. The result was weight gain, lethargy, horrible migraines, joint pain, rashes, GI issues, sinus issues etc. All of that was quickly reversed when we were put on the diet that is right for us. It was originally gluten free and then made totally grain free, and for us it works well. My wife is allergic to beef, so it is served only occasionally at our table and she usually just skips the meat that day. We do eat lots of organic produce, but have chicken, fish, and/or eggs daily.
If the beef she ate was grain fed, she would have eaten what the animal ate which is why I’m so careful about grass fed animals.
Funnily enough I’ve recently been retested for gluten and am now not reactive after years of being very reactive and avoiding most grains and gluten. I now can have occasional sour dough bread and home made Irish seeded bread but I stick to mainly Rye or Spelt. I really enjoy fresh bread but only once or twice a week.
She doesn't touch beef due to her full blown allergy to it. She will very occasionally have only grass fed lamb, which we have to get from Australia or NZ since most US lamb is fed the feedlot diet to fatten them up quickly.
Read the book Eat to Beat Disease. He references clinical trials for every point he makes. This research IS being done, it's not yet reaching the medical profession. The author, William Li is a medic and highly respected researcher. I'm a researcher myself and impressed with the quantity of data given.
No chance I will read his book. There must be thousands (many thousands) of diet and healthy eating books, all full of bogus claims. Like cocoa is beneficial for heart health, walnuts for colon cancer, and green tea for Lupus. If any one is unfortunate to have such diseased I would go for recognised medical treatments, not stuffing myself with walnuts. BTW - I will not enter into any further discussion on this subject and am quite astounded that these claims are repeated on a reputable medical help site.
As Dr Li, author of Eat to Beat Disease, is one of the most eminent food researchers Dr’s in the world. His work is entirely science based and the work on autogenesis quite amazing. He became a researcher exactly to stop what you are talking about - the ‘superfood’ fantasies.
We started our journey towards a plant based diet slowly by cutting out all beef products and then 6 months later we stopped eating any red meat at all. It is a big change to move to a diet that isn’t based around meat and although I love cooking I felt I had to slowly relearn a lot.
Jamie Oliver’s Veggie book has been inspiring
My hubby is flexitarian and if offered meat he will eat it. I will not. However we love fish and have this 2-3 times a week.
We have also made a move towards plant based milk and yogurt but I would find it hard to give up cheese, butter and eggs.
We have been to a few Vegan conferences and we stand out like sore thumbs, being somewhat grey around the gills, but we are so gratified to see how many young people are embracing a plant based diet.
Thank you Maggie, I'm wondering if you feel the benefit of not eating red meat? I'm finding all the input here helpful. I do think that one needs to do what is helpful for oneself...
Yes I think so, but it is hard to say which of the things I am doing is helping. I have had 3 ablations, the last 3 years ago and have been Afib free ever since but as well as going plant based, I also take magnesium citrate, vitamin D and coenzyme Q10.
It is probably a mixture of all of these things but I just rejoice that I am Afib free.
That's wonderful Maggi to be AFib free! May you stay that way. The last time I went for a swim in the sea I got AFib that evening but I've risked it today and had a wonderful swim ! It may not have been the cold water that caused it at all! It may have been the ice cream cone I had afterwards! So I skipped the ice cream afterwards. I'll bet you don't miss trying to figure out why you got the last AFib attack! Enjoy your freedom!
I was told by both my nutritionist and my cardiologist that going vegetarian was not a good idea and going vegan was "idiotic." They both agreed that there are too many nutrients missing from such diets that can cause other issues.
However, that does not mean I am to go out and eat massive quantities of meat. I was advised that my protein intake should only be moderate (no more than 25- 30 grams per day) because excess protein is converted to glucose and then stored as fat. I was also advised to avoid all soy products by both doctors.
I eat organic free range poultry and eggs and wild caught fish. I eat only grass fed meats because their nutrient profile is much different than normal commercially raised meat. I usually don't have beef or lamb more than once per week.
Also, commercially raised grain fed animals on the feed lot diet produce meat that is inflammatory, according to my Board Certified Nutritionist.
have been vegetarian for 30 yrs and now plant based for 2yrs. I am 81yo and in excellent health other than bouts of AF. My bloodwork shows no lack in nutrients. Sadly most drs have no dietary knowledge other than what they were taught in med school by the meat and dairy industry
in reply to
My take on diet is much the same as @Mollybear, grass-fed, wild etc. My wife was vegetarian for decades, now she isn't and says she feels better, veggie just wasn't for her as it turns out. Doesn't suit me either, tried and failed.
People are different and there's no one-for-all diet.
Thanks Cyrtis, Yes I'm beginning to really see that. I'm so desperate to get my energy back as I'm also dealing with Fibromyalgia and a lot of fatigue. It seems every summer some diet promising great healing and energy catches my eye and I'm off! It's funny but it'a also painful. I do think there's healing in the right diet if only I can find it. .....
Thank you Hardjuice. I'm going at it slowly by bringing in more veggie food. It is no big deal for me letting meat go as I only had some chicken twice a week. I'll stay with fish a while and then slowly let that go. Then I'll let go of mushroom omelettes. Are you off Cheese and eggs also? I'll miss my eggs. Will see how I go.
My AF started in 2011 when I was on a Vegetarian diet. In 2014 started Vegan diet, which enjoy very much, but my AF continues on and off. I asked my Cardiologist that if I wasn't vegan then I may be dead...He responded: perhaps no dead but yes, much worst...(I enjoy my meals and happy to keep on since I do it for ethical reasons...whit the bonus...still alive without hearting others sentient beings, I'm 82)
Thank you Queseyo. Yes for ethical reasons I'd love to be a vegan also. It's good to know that it has actually helped you with your AFib. That's very encouraging indeed. I'm off meat now but still having fish X two times a week. I'm going slowly with this so I can increase my vegetarian cooking. Thank you for letting me know about your journey and experience.
I enrolled in the Ornish Lifestyle Medicine program in Honolulu and did the 9 week course, switching to a plant based diet. It really helped my health and I am still plant based though occasionally eat a little cheese as I can't find fat free cheese in Australia, where I am now. My cholesterol dropped, my A1C got back into the good zone, and I lost weight. My husband reversed his diabetes of 10 years. I was able to go off Lipitor and also went off Prilosec. Ornish's diet is spelled out in his book "Undo It." I haven't had further problems with afib since my ablation 2 years ago, though I take Flecainide, atenelol and eliquis for rhythm issues in my lower heart if not medicated. I highly recommend this diet and program to feel better and be healthier!
Thank you so much Barbli. That's wonderful to hear! I'm on the Plant Based now for about 6 weeks and it's going well. Experimenting with different recipes. I feel good about doing it for sure. Weight is dropping off nicely. some pains are clearing up. I wasn't eating much meat but was eating fish and a small bit of cheese so I'm not missing much really. in fact I feel I'm "over fish and meat" now. There's so much on line and on YouTube recipe wise. I think you could say I'm pleased with myself for all kinds of reasons. Health wise and and also I'm glad I'm doing my bit for the planet and I so love animals and was very conflicted about eating meat over the last years. So it's a win win for a better peace of mind and good health. It's great that your husband reversed his diabetes! I must tell a friend of mine!!
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