Plant based diet and AF outcomes - Atrial Fibrillati...

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Plant based diet and AF outcomes

rosyG profile image
17 Replies

Came across this when looking at an RSM medical database and thought it of interest for our recent discussion on the forum here.

Polypharmacy is common and associated with negative health outcomes in the elderly. We report the case of an 82-year-old man with a history of polypharmacy due to coronary artery disease, myocardial infarction, ischaemic cardiomyopathy, hyperlipidaemia, hypertension and persistent atrial fibrillation who presented with memory loss, cognitive impairment, fatigue and weakness. His treatment plan included an exclusively plant, whole-food diet and moderate physical activity which resulted in a rapid reduction of hyperlipidaemia and high blood pressure and the discontinuation of statin, antihypertensive and beta blocker drug therapy. The patient also reported reversal of impaired cognition and symptoms associated with atrial fibrillation and ischaemic cardiomyopathy, including light-headedness, fatigue and weakness. This case demonstrates that dietary and lifestyle modifications have the potential to improve symptoms of cardiovascular disease and reduce polypharmacy along with associated negative consequences in the elderly.

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rosyG profile image
rosyG
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fallingtopieces profile image
fallingtopieces

Once some of his drugs (the blood pressure ones) were stopped, it appears his other problems/symptoms ceased.

With ‘polypharmacy’ it’s likely(and known)drugs to treat one condition cause another.

The total change of diet and the probable much lower calories could take the credit and possibly not the diet itself.

It’s also possible another ‘diet’ could have given the same results.

I know I’m such a cynic 🙄

Pat

BobD profile image
BobDVolunteer

Just another report that plant based diets are better for us. This has been shown by several trials over the last few years regardless of one's views on eating animals. My wife has been vegetarian for nearly thirty years but over the last year I have been reducing my meat intake quite seriously mainly because I found that I was able to digest it less easily which upset my vagus nerve and therefor increased ectopic activity. I'm not a zealot in this respect and still love the occasional full English.

Oh yes and over the last year I have lost a stone in weight with zero other effort and my BP is improved.

rosyG profile image
rosyG

Hi John

It’s not a ‘diet’ in the strict sense. Plant based whole foods means getting rid of processed foods and having a wide range of vegetables, fruit, nuts whole cereals and some people have small amounts of meat/ fish/ dairy too.Worth a try I think!

Auriculaire profile image
Auriculaire

Good fats are essential in our diet and that includes some some animal fats as they contain essential fatty acids - essential being the operative word. Our bodies cannot make them so we must consume them. I am very suspicious of this " plant based " diet trend as I believe a lot of it is fuelled by vegan ideology using health as a vehicle. I well remember all the zeal for "low fat" 30 years ago. That turned out really well with enormous rises in obesity and diabetes.

rosyG profile image
rosyG in reply to Auriculaire

Hi

Best to read up about plant based diets. They are not vegan or vegetarian and people often keep small amounts of meat dairy etc so will get the fats you mention.

Auriculaire profile image
Auriculaire in reply to rosyG

Keeping small amounts of these is in my view essential but that is not the impression given by the words " plant based" and many people might well get the impression that they should indeed eat plants only. We are omnivores, our species evolved as omnivores. The exact amounts of protein and fats our ancestors ate is unknown. What we do know from accounts of stone aged people like Native Americans is that when they were able to catch large prey they gorged on it. What has made us unhealthy diet wise is the idea that food can be produced in factories and heated up in 3 minutes in a microwave so that we can waste time on social media or watching tv instead of cooking from scratch.

Kaioatey profile image
Kaioatey in reply to Auriculaire

Humans are clearly not natural "omnivores". Some are cultural "omnivores", and indeed must rely on cultural artifacts to raise, kill, butcher, cook, disguise with seasonings, cut up, and finally consume their animal prey

Auriculaire profile image
Auriculaire in reply to Kaioatey

The fact that we have digestive systems that enable us to digest animal protein shows that we are natural omnivores as are chimpanzees our ape cousins who hunt sometimes but have not evolved to cook their prey. Accounts of buffalo hunts report that the most prized part was the liver that was devoured raw by the most valourous hunters.

Kaioatey profile image
Kaioatey in reply to Auriculaire

Surely you must understand that there is no absolute answer to the question are we omnivores or not. This debate is everywhere with plenty of "facts" on either side. You are neither right nor wrong and I am also just taking a relative point if view. If you are happy, so be it.

One "fact" on my side is that the scientific evidence is that people who adopt a whole foods plant based diet have significant lower incidence of cancer, heart disease, diabetes and in my case, a vastly improved case if AFib.

Auriculaire profile image
Auriculaire in reply to Kaioatey

From a scientific point of view homo sapiens are classed as omnivores . Whether individual persons wish to be omnivores or not is a cultural matter. Given that we were told for years that the scientific evidence favoured low fat and that turned out to be a big fat lie I am sceptical of this latest "scientific " evidence. Dietary studies are notoriously unreliable as they depend on people remembering and telling the truth about what they eat. Clinical trials of diet are rare as they have to be done on captive populations ie mental asylum or prison inmates who have no choice about what they eat. Can you point me towards such studies for plant based diets?

Kaioatey profile image
Kaioatey in reply to Auriculaire

Check out nutritionfacts.org for highly researched studies on many, many topics.

Fisken8888 profile image
Fisken8888 in reply to Auriculaire

Let me just point out that you can get all essential amino and fatty acids from plants. This is not only scientifically proven, but it also just makes sense in that most nutrition comes from plants in the first place, whether you eat meat or not. The problem is, humans are pretty much the only animals that seem confused about what diet is ideally suited for their digestive system. I have heard many people claim that humans are omnivores, which is a bit misleading. Sure, we can eat both meat and plants without dropping dead. However, what we CAN eat says nothing about what we SHOULD eat for optimal health. As for humans, eating meat was, during long and harsh winters, necessary for our ancestors to survive, especially in the days before agriculture. They were hardly thinking about proper nutrition back then. Another example is a lion. No one is denying that a lion can get some benefits from plants, but given its digestive system, it would not be the optimal diet. I’m sure we would all think something was off if a lion suddenly refused to hunt and started eating grass like a cow. And finally, veganism is a philosophy that tries to exclude unnecessary suffering, and since eating meat and dairy is completely unnecessary to live a healthy life in the 21st century, veganism happens to have both the moral and scientific high ground. I hope that cleared up some of your scepticism.

Auriculaire profile image
Auriculaire in reply to Fisken8888

Not at all. If you look at amounts of essential nutrients in plant and animal foods you will find that they are far more concentrated in animal foods . Much larger quantities of non animal foods have to be eaten in order to obtain the necessary amount of nutrients. My son in law is a vegan and has been for 30+ years. He has always eaten what seemed to me to be enormous quantities of food. When we went to South India in 1996 we ate vegan for several days. We could not eat anything like the quantity of food our driver was able to shovel in and as a result we were always ravenously hungry 2/3 hours after our meal. South Indian communities tend to have high diabetes rates - all that rice perhaps? As our digestive tracts and teeth are those of omnivores I do not see for one minute that veganism has the scientific high ground though it may have the moral one. Not though if one believes ( as I do) that plants too are sentient life. Plants cannot run away from predators. They contain lots of chemicals that aren't actually that good for the creatures that eat them as well as nutrients. Hundreds of small creatures are killed by combine harvesters in harvesting grain. Do you think about that when you eat a slice of bread?

Fisken8888 profile image
Fisken8888 in reply to Auriculaire

I was about to kindly reply, but you lost me completely when you pulled out the “plants have feelings/sentience” argument, which is so clearly not the case, since you need a nervous system in order to feel any sort of pain or pleasure. Also, the combine harvester argument has been shot down so many times that you can literally find videos about it on YouTube of all places. But fine, let’s accept the combine harvester argument for a moment. What did I tell you about veganism? Do you even know the definition? It’s about eliminating UNNECESSARY suffering. Since you don’t need to eat meat to survive or thrive or be healthy, slaughtering animals equals needles suffering or, at the very less, unwarranted bereavement of life. Unless, of course, you think humans are masters of all animals and can do with them as they please. But if you grant the premise of veganism, you are killing billions of animals in addition of the insects etc. that die in a combine harvester. If my math is correct, that means not only MORE suffering, but also a huge amount of UNNECESSARY suffering, the necessary suffering being those animals that get in the way of the harvester, which we use for the specific purpose of feeding ourselves with the foods we are made to eat. The point here is, there is no INTENTION of killing here, but there is with the slaughter of cows, horses, pigs, dogs etc. Now, I’m all for finding a better way of harvesting that reduces the death of insects and smaller animals, although most of them will probably not just stand around and wait for the combine harvester to kill them. Veganism is about MINIMIZING suffering. If it somehow turned out that there was no way to eliminate insect deaths during a harvest, that would be a fact of life, and we would do it because we NEED to, whereas no one needs to eat meat or drink milk from a cow. That milk is for the calf, Not grown-ass humans like you and I. It’s about pleasure, not necessity.

Finally, I have been vegan since childhood. I’m healthy, all my blood tests are excellent every year, and I never go around hungry. If you find yourself eaten oceans of food in order to feel full, you are simply not eating the right kinds of food. Surely you’re not seriously arguing that meat is the only thing that keeps you satiated. Anyone with half a brain knows that is just nonsense. If you need more information on what to eat to feel full, the internet is your friend.

Auriculaire profile image
Auriculaire

I do believe that the idea that natural fats ( from pasture fed or wild animals or cold pressed olive oil) clog up the arteries is drivel. It is part of the saturated fat / cholesterol hypothesis formulated by Ancel Keys using cherry picked data and is rubbish science with no evidence whatsoever for it. It is a myth used to prop up the sale of cholesterol lowering drugs.

jwsonoma profile image
jwsonoma

I'd say if your health is continuing to slowly deteriorate with your current life style why not try it for a month?

What have you got to loose beside some weight?

Andyt36 profile image
Andyt36

A friend years ago said something that I didn't pay attention too,but it makes sense. She said I eat food as it was meant to be, e.g. milk full fat, fruits as they are, cheese as is etc....but in moderation and in their natural state.

We tend to overconsume, if we didn't we wouldn't need low fat alteranatives with whatever chemical preservatives are added. Hence I would say one red meat day a week, one white meat day, 2 days of fish, 2 days vegan and 1 day you decide a balance, would be a good start. (Probably better to have meat once a week).

:)

But I do think, natural, unprocessed and moderation is key.

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