I wonder why the Nightingale hospitals can't now be used for patients with the virus, allowing general hospitals to open and function as normal? It appears to be such a simple solution, but I'm sure you'll all soon be here telling me why not. Lol.
Jean
I was wondering the same ! No doubt we will be enlightened ...
After a moments thought on that subject I offer this. Whilst new patients may well be directed to Nightingale, Hospitals already hold many existing patients. The risk of transporting them would be high so they must stay where they are for the duration whichever outcome. It would only be after the last ever patient had left another hospital and after that had been thoroughly deep cleaned that any kind of normality could return. That's an engineer for you.
Good reply Bob, they need to start putting new patients into the Nightingale hospitals right away.
Not sure that’s the reason. Think Germany took in ventilated patients in from Italy transporting them by a specially adapted train so moving patients doesn’t appear to be an issue. Appears a lack of cardiac nurses may be an issue, enough doctors but not specialist nurses. Sensible actions would allow the Nightingale hospitals to be used for virus patients and free up beds in other hospitals given the number of patients not having the treatment they need I.e. cancer patients, heart attack patients having to wait 2 hrs plus for ambulances and people too afraid to go to hospital when I’ll with other things.
Hi, BobD
I am also an engineer - and it occurs to me that these exhibition halls have extraction fans that could be used to contain the virus in individual rooms, with "negative pressure".
What is an "ICU" bed? anything with oxygen available?
Maybe transitioning to that?
I talked to my sister recently who said their hospital, 900 beds, is mostly all COVID patients now, even theatres & recovery rooms are full, apart from 2 small wards at one end of the hospital for acute care were they know there is no CIVID. They are swamped. That’s Manchester.
Goodness, it's hard to imagine how busy that Manchester hospital must be! We don't realise how lucky we are living in our county!
Yes, I guess transitioning would be the problem, but they could start putting people in the Nightingale units now and then eventually all would be there.
General hospitals desperately need to try to get back to normal routines and appointments, or people will be dying from having other medical conditions neglected.
Lack of critical care nurses is a problem as reported in the guardian. Reacting to the Guardian story on Twitter, Nicki Credland, chair of the British Association of Critical Care Nurses, said: “As I have said numerous times you cannot make fully trained ICU nurses overnight no matter how much money you throw at it.” There also concern about lack of transparency
“The government and NHS should be transparent about the staffing policies for the Nightingales"
Stuart Tuckwood. From the nursing times.
True.
That explains it all Jo. I wonder who gave the go ahead to build and equip the Nightingale hospitals without realising it would be impossible to staff them!
To quote my friend '.....couldn't even organise a ****up in a brewery!' Won't say who.....
I think someone saw what China was doing and didn't understand the logistics. Hopefully 'ordinary' hospitals will eventually return to normal working as far as possible.
The Chinese drafted in staff from all over China to Wuhan. One has to remember that the extreme lockdown in Hubei helped stop the virus spreading too much outside Hubei province. That is much harder in a geographically smaller country with several serious outbreaks in major cities. Here in France patients have been transported in specially outfitted trains from Paris and the north east where the outbreak has been worst to hospitals in parts of the country that have few cases .
Thanks for that forgot to put the link in. Had yesterday’s guardian delivered with shopping.
I know there are over 240 covid 19 patients at my local hospital and 114 covid 19 deaths recently . I had 2 hospital appointments cancelled just 2 hours before them, 1 was an urgent scan, I did however have a phone call from the consultant a few days later and he said you need to come in for the scan, my reply was I am on the very high risk category and will not come in to the hospital even if it means I will not know if I have cancer or not until I have this urgent scan.
What a decision for you to have to make, but you know the covid 19 patients are well isolated from other hospital departments. In your situation I think I would have gone for the scan. Really feel for you and sending you a big healing hug. Please let us know how you get on.
Hi, my partner runs Intensive care at another hospital and said they are only using the Nightingale for patients that have more chance of surviving. Even in this crisis they are still trying to make there figures look good.
He's thinking along the same lines as me then - see my reply below.
It's odd how we're not being told the full truthful facts. What a shambles it all is. I've heard from someone who runs one that the elderly in nursing homes aren't admitted to hospital if they get the virus. Thank goodness for wonderful caring people like your partner who are doing their very best to save so many people right now.
Bit late to the party, but on a professional level I'd been reading the clinical parameters they use to accept patients. On the whole they're only accepting "well" patients that have Covid-19. So anyone with anything else wrong, underlying health conditions, slightly deranged blood results, at risk of needing escalation, poor prognosis or risk of death will not be accepted.
In fact, we surmised that patients meeting the criteria would be so "well" that it would make more sense to either send them home or just hold onto them in the hospital for a few more days until they could go home. Because along with the patients you're also expected to send staff and resources.
The cynic inside me says they're going to get very low death rates in the facilities and they can be hailed as a success. But as has already been said, the increased risk of contamination/exposure to others in the transfer alone suggests to most people with common sense that it should only be done as an absolute last resort anyway.
Given the shortage of intensive care staff and many of them not used to intensive care, it would be wise to match less experienced nurses with
patients who are less ill. A senior army officer said he had not come across a more difficult problem in his long army career.
Our friend's daughter who is a sister at St Thomas said that it was lack of nursing staff. Another friend who is an air stewardess said when they were taken off flying, they were going to be sent to the Nightingale to help, but they weren't qualified enough
Our NHS hospitals appear to have been running understaffed for years.
Everything appears to have been carried out in such a farcical way. Lets build huge hospitals, but no one thought about who would staff them!!! I dread to think how much all the beds and other equipment at these Nightingale units have cost. Yet they couldn't get general hospital and care home medical staff PPE.
I know it's easy to be an armchair critic, but these people running the country are meant to know what they're doing. I tell you what they are expert at though and that's dodging the questions and not giving a straight answer at the afternoon coronavirus briefings! Praise the person asking by saying what a good question it is and them waffle on without giving a direct answer.
if you elect a clown you get a circus
But we had to chose one clown from all of them at the circus!
The problem as I see it is with NHS bureaucracy. The logistics problem was sorted out by the army. They said the NHS arrangements for the distribution of PPE were a shambles. I think the staff at the front end who are doing a magnificent job are being let down.
True. My daughter has to order PPE for two wards. She has been saying that the stock is released each day at 8am, but when she calls at that time it's gone! Last week an order did arrive, but someone had stolen the hands sanitiser en route!
I have distributed PPE for the NHS - and yes, it is a shambles.
On the first occasion, there were no delivery notes: On the second occasion, the delivery notes were in duplicate, but three copies are needed, one for the store (at the county hospital), one for the deliverer and one for the receiving hospital.
I insisted that the receiving hospital photo-copied the delivery notes and gave me a signed copy (and the organiser texted me and wanted copies).
...and the lady that received the PPE claimed to be the official named on the note - but she was not the same lady who took delivery the last time, and I insisted on seeing her badge.
...and the lists were also wrong - there was PPE in the load that was not listed, and some PPE for one drop was in a box for the other drop. (The two drops were a full load, and I might not have been able to get it all into my vehicle.)
PPE is in demand, and has a potentially high black market value - so, you would have thought that they should take is seriously.
I agree to a certain extent, for example I personally think they made lockdown a bit late. However everyone keeps asking when the lockdown will be over and quite honestly it has to be seen how soon the virus goes. It's no good them saying lockdown finishing in 3 weeks and then we have another recurrence and peak, it really is just wait and see. It's all such a new thing for everyone isn't it.
Frustrating not being able to see family and friends for so long apart from FaceTime which isn't very satisfactory is it, but better to wait a few weeks/months than never to see them again.
Stay well
Yes, I agree we have to wait and see if the virus spread does die down before removing any restrictions. I can see some shops being allowed to open in a few weeks though, but keeping the social distancing rules, especially the ones re not travelling far.
Who knows how this will all pan out! I feel like I'm playing a part in a science fiction film,not real life!!
Jean
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