As always turn to this forum for advice from those of you who are in the not so wonderful land of Af and those of you who are on top of it.
Briefly, I am 61 yrs old and was diagnosed with Af 18 months ago. This was after a night out and woke in the middle of the night with a racing/missing heart beat. GP and cardio told me not to worry about it. Happened again same time of night after 4 glasses of white wine. This time on to Bisop I was put. Two weeks later a warm day and after playing golf it happened again. They upped the Bisop to 5mg but that wiped me out. So stayed at 1.25mg. Since that time I have had 4 further attacks very symptomatic racing heart feeling light headed and scared etc.Sometimes after lunch and evening meal and first thin AM. Now on 2.5mg of Bisop. Now here its the thing: since taking Bisop I get a very tight chest 1 hr after taking it and when I exercise after a short time get tired. Very cold hands and feet and very anxious.Lots of ectopics. None of this was the case prior to starting the Bisop !
I have lost 2.5 st and have not drank alcohol or caffine for 18 months. I saw the EP who said just carry on as I am. But trhe anxiety , not having a glass of wine, struggling with exercise and defo no excitement is making me miserable.
The question for all you non medics is , is it vagal Af. Is it the Bisop that is doing this to me ?. Is an ablation the only real way forward and am I wasting my time with the lifestyle changes to keep the beast away. The changes are not keeping it away sadly.
thank you all
PS I did ask the GP to change me to Nebivolol or a calcium chanel blocker. Sadly in the Highlands of Scotland it is not easy to see the cardiologist and the EP is 100 miles away.I await the GP
Rod
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7164
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I'm not medically trained so all I can do is tell you about my time on bisoprolol which was only about 3 days I'm the same as you had a really tight chest racing heart and bad eptopics which put me into AE for 24hrs needless to say I stopped the bisoprolol and I gradually got back to near normal
Hi Rod - all I can say is Bisoprolol did not help me in the least and I can relate to all of your concerns about it.
May I suggest that you perhaps need to address your anxiety first and foremost - reducing stress and ensuring good sleep are as important as reducing weight.
My husband is now no longer able to play golf - and was unbearable because of it. Giving up the alcohol was no problem, caffeine had no affect either way but not being able to do what you used to re: golf is probably having a huge affect on your emotional, psychological and physical wellbeing so please try to adjust your expectations, find an alternative pastime which you can enjoy, at least for the time being.
I know SO many golfers with AF - I wonder if it is the swing action?
I have recently taken up Bowls - yes I have had to seriously had to limit my expectations of what I can or cannot do - but I am loving it! Has all the social aspects, the competitive spirit and whilst not as physical as golf - I am certainly getting my steps in and put back a bit of jeez into my life.
Bisoprolol gave me very unpleasant side effects, although different to yours. As far as I can see, this medication does affect some of us badly. When I came off it, the change for me was immediately noticeable: what a relief it was.
Do keep up the lifestyle changes. This can only help!
First off, well done for the weight loss. Lifestyle change has been shown to really help to reduce AF .
Also knowing some of your triggers will help you too, I wish I knew mine. My attacks were all very random. I have pretty much stopped drinking alcohol though even 2.5 years after a successful ablation, I don't want it back!
I had a terrible time on bisoprolol, cold hands and feet in the winter is certainly one of the side effects and I could barely move when I was on 12.5mg a day (yes, twelve point 5 mg) on 1.25 mg I could function but it took me 6 minutes longer to walk a mile than without it. I also had way more ectopics when I was on it than now (bisoprolol free zone for almost 2 years)
I don't think that your GP can change your heart meds, but if you are still under the care of your EP you could make contact with them directly via their secretary. It may take some detective work to find their email addresses or phone number though.
My EP was very good at responding to my questions and would sometimes squeeze me in to his clinic if he thought he needed to see me.
Ablation may not be the answer, but it was for me and if I go back in to AF I hope that I am offered another one.
You are definitely not wasting your time with the healthy changes to your lifestyle, I would imagine that your AF would be much worse if you had done nothing.
GPs can change rate meds though best to have ok from cardiologist, but not prescribe or change antiarrhythmics .
G'day Rod,
Bisoprolol (5mg taken at night) is no issue for me. It was in the beginning (over 10 years ago now) when I was prescribed it first thing in a.m. - used to get nose bleeds.
Changed to night (about 8 pm) and no problems since .... I have stayed on the same dose all the time.
So when do you take it, morning or night ? Can't see it in your post.
Look at it this way .................. your hearts's default mode with AF is to wanna gallop away and do so erractically .... 100, 110, 140 160 etc ............. so along comes Bisop whose job it is to try and lower and regulate/stabilise your heart beat.
Heart don't wanna do this, Bisoprolol does wanna do it ....... so there is this massive chemical wargame being played in yer chest .... a massive tug 'o war going on between hearts natural want to do and Bisop which wants to control the game.
That's the best way to describe it for me .......... of course something is gonna give and that's the tired feelings you describe.
Yeah had the cold hands and feet, especially extremities of fingers. Many a time I've gone to bed with gloves and socks on hot water bottle too, usually fall asleep for a few hours and wake up good to go.
I'm now 75 and it simply doesn't bother me at all. Heart nice and regular at 65 to 67 bpm and I still work a 6 day fortnight.
So as a start, if you are taking it in morning suggest you see your GP about taking it at night. Assuming you sleep 6 to 8 hours you are well into the day when the good stuff is working through your body which may make life (your waking hours) more tolerable.
There again it may not ............ just sayin' - that's all.
It’s a truly debilitating thing to be suffering - you have my sympathies. Last year I came down with atrial flutter and had months of similar symptoms, even after my ablation in June.
The beta blocker is for symptom relief (i.e. by reducing tachycardia) so switching to a different one shouldn’t be an issue for your GP. I presume you’re also on an anticoagulant?
I struggled with symptoms even on 1.25mg of bisoprolol, although, in the end analysis, I was never certain whether my symptoms were down to that, to the weakening effect of Afl on the heart (ejection fraction down to 45% with slight valve leakage), or even to the high levels of anxiety it all induced.
I was lucky to be given an ablation in early June, but even after that it was very many weeks till my health noticeably improved. I was taken off beta blockers too soon and that brought on a severe Afib attack. But I eventually risked coming off them again and was given a stress cardiac MRI. This proved completely clear apart from some slight left-bundle heart block. Following this, however, I quite quickly improved - which is what led me to wonder whether anxiety wasn’t a major aspect. I’m still not sure.
I’m on rivaroxaban. You’re stroke risk must be lower than mine, I guess? I was supposed to come of them after my ablation but that one dose of afib that I suffered from dropping beta blockers too soon has meant I’m on them for life.
Anxiety and insomnia are major issues for me, sadly. I’m pretty sure either those or my acid reflux / hiatus hernia started the whole thing off.
It's the sulphites , that's why I had to give up drinking cider
Sulphites are a well known trigger. As is Chinese food as it can contain monosodium glutamate, infact any food with that in can trigger AF , I know that my heart gets angry with me if I eat a packet of Doritos as they have (had?) Msg
All of your symptoms are exactly what I experience. I am now Permanent AF, this for the past three years, 10mg Bisoprolol, 320 mcg Digoxin, and as I write this am in the middle of an attack. Chest tight, breathless, bloated hands, feet, upset stomach, cold feet, etc. No it is certainly not pleasant and I thought I had got past these 'attacks' as I call them. Doctors who see AF paroxysmal patients with no symptoms, and infrequent bouts do not understand us. I have given up with the Doctors and the NHS. I look after myself and after a lot of investigation, monitoring my symptoms and bouts of feeling very unwell have come up with.......Vagal, caused by stress, which cascades into full AF despite my high medication which I feel only regulates my heart rate, and does not deal with AF. I also now find that 'rich' food, food out of my norm, is an issue. I stopped drinking three years ago and am teetotal. I thought this would help and I think it has. My main aim is to try and reduce the meds, but I will start this journey on my own, not with my Doctor. I will monitor how I feel as I do this.
I took bisoprolol for about three weeks and couldn't handle it any longer....I just felt ill all the time....As soon as i came off it i felt fine!.....So now i take Atenolol and Rivaroxaban and although i do go into AF......not a lot and not for long.
The doctor took me off yes.....The Cardiologist didn't put me on them...the doctor did in response to the letter from the diagnostic centre....I couldn't stand feeling so ill any longer....I never gave up my glass of wine....I only have one and don't seem to suffer any ill effects....We're all different though.
I totally agree! I stopped all alcohol ( hardly drank much hefore - a glass of red wine from time to time. Made no difference at all so I am back to 1/2 a glass of red wine a day. Never had an incident after a small drink. It's QoL for me. Magnesium seems to help!
All these comments are hitting home to me too. My plan now is to check the 'ingredients' in food and drinks as I too have exactly what you say and I take 5mg Bisoprolol and have done for the last 3/4 years. I'm in Scotland too and have never seen an EP. Never been mentioned at the hospital. Seems to me they are the 'electricians' in this AF world.
I'll try the suggestion of taking that at night and will see what my cardiologist says when I see him (after almost a year's wait may I add) on the 3rd Feb.
I'm 65 now and with all these side effects of meds, I some days feel I'm 105!!!
See the EP. Some of the plumbing cardiologists really don’t know . I certainly got the wrong advice from one. He said don’t worry, don’t drink fizzy drinks bugger off 😊
The problem is that I was absolutely fine prior to the first Af hit. BP perfect heart rate good. Now b/p 90/60 heart 50 rate. I think that the bisop is lowering my rate but causing other problems
P.s what was your Heart rate before medication? If it was low then the Bisoprolol probably making it lower and giving you symptoms. My husband couldn't take it as he suffered brachycardia as well as Afib. The best is to see an EP if possible only a Dr who specialises in this problem can get you sorted I think.
Ah ok so you are only taking Bisoprolol. If the arythmia is bothering you maybe ask your cardiologist for a PIP ( pill in the pocket) to help you revert to normal beat. I take 3.75 Bisoprolol which makes me a bit tired and a bit breathless with effort but so far no other problems on it. I also take Flecainide. I take magnesium 3 x a day which seems to be helping.
Bisoprolol did for me exactly what you describe - breathless to the point of being unable to walk far, couldn't do more than 20 minutes of any task and had fingers and toes so cold I got chilblains every winter.
After four years of it I went to my GP and made a case for the negative impact it was having on my quality of life and he prescribed Nebivolol. It was like getting my old life back, much less breathless and I can walk again on the mountain where I live (N Ireland).
My understanding is that a GP has the authority to change a beta blocker - did yours react to your suggestion? If you want to push for a change and your GP is dragging his/her feet, try phoning your cardiologist's secretary. I have found we really do need to be our own advocates. ( Incidentally, Nebivolol 2.5mg is massively expensive, in comparison with 5mg - so many GP's prescribe 5mg and tell patients to cut the tab in two - this makes it about the same cost to the NHS as Bisoprolol.)
Well done on your weight loss - very important, we are told but the wine - ah, the wine. I miss it too - the colour, smell and taste. I fretted like you for months until I decided to think of myself as a teetotaller - worked a wee bit! Our lives change with AF but the impact of the changes can be lessened with the right treatment.
Regarding ablation, I opted for drug treatment once I was well enough informed about the choices available and six years on with Flecainide, I have had no AF. Ablation may be your way forward, but you need to be able to talk this over with your EP and my suggestion would be to try to get those side effects you describe dealt with, so that you can think clearly.
Read up plenty, if you haven't already done so, and try to get the best solution for yourself. Best wishes with the GP.
I have read that the better your lifestyle, the more likely an ablation is to be effective, so lifestyle changes are never wasted.
A betablocker is to lower the rate when AF occurs. It won't do much to stop it happening. So if it occurs rarely, do you really need a betablocker all the time? You could discuss with your GP slowly, slowly reducing the betablocker to zero, and then taking it only when problems occur ie as a PIP (Pill in the pocket). Once your heart has adjusted you will probably feel a lot better.
It is important not to let the heart race too high too much, but a PIP will help with this. Apart from this the treatments are largely about quality of life, so why take Bisoprolol all the time if it isn't helping? You don't want an ablation to treat the misery of this particular beta blocker! (I too have found Nebivolol to be much, much better)
I hated being on bisoprolol. My EP gave me the option - continue to try various meds or go straight for ablation. I chose the latter. That was in 2013 and I am still AF free.
Hi There I am 60 this year and since my first Afib event 3 years ago I have had about 10 episodes, first two I went to A & E and was on 2.5 then 1.25mg of Bisoprolol, but made me incredibly fatigued , listless and sort of depressed. my heart rate sometimes was 43 BPM too.
I went to a great EP Dr Ben Brown who really reassured me and explained my options. after 4 more (One a month) episodes each one longer than the last I went back and he took me off Bisoprolol and put me on anticoagulant (Apixoban) and Flecamide 50mg twice a day That stopped the monthly episodes and since then the events I have had have been honestly a bit self inflicted with alcohol to excess.
I don't like bisoprolol as I dislike the torpid feel it gave me, but we area all different
I dread going to bed. I constantly hear my heart despite what I do. My bp after bisop goes to 90/60 and rare mid low 50. An hour or so before the bisop it is 120/80 mid 60.
Hi 7164. I am in the Highlands too and got my GP to change my meds from Bisoprolol to Nebivolol. I was on 10 mg of biso and blamed it for my breathlessness although in actual fact there has been little change on Nebivolol. Cardiologist added in digoxin but was otherwise happy as I have asthma too
I did ask for an EP and was told the nearest is Aberdeen and that he wouldn’t make any difference to my treatment. As I am in permanent asymptomatic AF and am 71 I have not pushed although I’m sure I would get an appointment if I really needed one. I am told that in due course I will need a pacemaker of a different type to normal.
I don’t know why it is asymptomatic some on here say we get used to the odd rhythm. All I can say is that when I was first diagnosed it was very uncomfortable especially in the early hours of the morning. As time went on and after a few A&E visits things seemed to settle down and now I don’t notice the beats at all. Makes it difficult for me to take my own pulse though
I see there's loads of comments already, but just adding my anecdotal 'evidence'. I found Bisoprolol increased the number of palpitations I experienced, particularly when 'at rest' and also made me quite tired. Hopefully a switch in beta blocker may help.
Are you just taking Bisoprolol? I started with Sotalol which gave me hundreds of symptomatic ectopics on top of Lone Afib. Then I was changed to Bisoprolol and Flecainide and no more ectopics but still Afib but much shorter episodes.
Maybe try magnesium? I think it really helps. I take magnesium citrate but others here take different types and give good advice. Worth a try ( if your Dr agrees)
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Is it possible AF does not progress?
Pill in pocket - help! does anyone know what I should do?
Switched to Nebivolol - Higher HR
Should I have an ablation now?
