Newbie and worried about various heart things.

[DeeFish71]

Hi I am new here.

Not been diagnosed with AFib but have a lot of questions and am worried.

Been ill since last March, and it all started with a normal cold/chest infection.

But had various visits to A&E as worried was having a heart attack.

I was told I had pleurisy and to take ibuprofen, then it went to the ribs, especially the left side, and was told it was constocondritis and once more to take ibuprofen.

Doctors have been useless. Months of saying it was silent reflux and giving me omeprazole for anxiety (which did nothing but mess my weight up, and when stopped them, lost seven pounds in a very short time). Months of saying glandular fever even though not shown on 2 blood tests. 2 trips to ENT as my throat constricted and hard to breath - found nothing wrong. Scan on throat for thyroid - was found it was "very small" but no further action (been on Levo 100mg for years). Another scan found I had a few small gallstones but once more no further action.

Since October, been suffering extreme panic and anxiety and no idea why - it's uncontrollable. It tends to come and go, the GP was useless once more and gave me Sertraline, and had to stop them as my pupil dilated and an out of hours GP said to stop them. (I have pigment dispersion).

This is just a background so people on here can see how it's progressed.

Since November, the chest pains have been every day. I try to exercise and keep active, I do smoke, but have cut down, and cut down on caffeine and don;t often drink alcohol. I had an ECG which confirmed what A&E had found - ectopic beats, sinus aryythmia. I had a 24 hour ECG done which also confirmed this.

But the GP and all in the surgery there have just about washed their hands of me and no longer see me. The last time I was up there was a week before Xmas, and got seen by such a useless girl, who referred me back to the GP who had given up on me (as I had seen her the most). I was promised a callback from her and never got one.

I have an appt with Cardio in a week or so and am terrified. I have also been referred to a GP Federation place at a Cardio centre- why when nothing has been diagnosed?

Sorry for such a long post but I want to be detailed. No idea if this ectopic thing is because of a virus (like myocarditis), hormonal (I am 48 and periods been odd this year, and this one 3 weeks late), or thyroid based. I am feeling worse each week, short of breath, intolerant of things like furniture polish (I do have very mild asthma, but inhalers do nothing for the symptoms I have now), the shooting chest pains that go into the left side, and extreme rib and breast pain.

Thank you for reading.

[CDreamer]

Hi Dee and welcome. I would imagine that it is very distressing when you suffer such symptoms but cannot get a diagnosis. Unfortunately diagnosis is often about ruling out many things before you can get to what is the root cause.

I am afraid I found your post very difficult to follow and not sure what sort of questions you have concerning your heart?

What are your specific concerns are relating to AF or possible diagnosis of AF which is what this forum supports? Or what information you would like from us or how you think we might help?

It wasn’t until the end of the post that you mentioned ectopics?

Few of the symptoms you mentioned would normally be associated with AF, however, everyone is different and present very differently.

Any heart dysfunction will be investigated by your cardiac referral which initially will normally include - BP, weight, bloods, urine & ECG to begin with. The results of these tests will, along with a medical history, will then determine whether or not your obviously very distressing symptoms could be heart related and what further investigations would be indicated.

Any health condition causes anxiety, unfortunately, anxiety is also our worst enemy as anxiety can in itself cause many of the symptoms you describe and exacerbate many conditions such as increasing ectopic beats - which simply mean skipped beats by the way - and are considered benign by most medics but as many on this site will testify - feel bloody awful!

Best wishes CD.

[DeeFish71 in reply to CDreamer]

Thanks for replying and sorry I rambled on and on but wanted to build on what has happened in the last 10 months and now has led to the heart problems/cardio appointments.

I am not sure if I am in the right group, but it's the sinus aryythmia that I saw on the screen (was not actually told this to my face) in that ECG up the doctors surgery, that has led me to post here.

I have read elsewhere that perimenopause could be a cause, and am hoping that this is all it will be.

[Buffafly in reply to DeeFish71]

Sinus arrhythmia is common and just means your heart speeds up in time with your breathing, my daughter has it but was told it is benign, in fact can be a sign of good fitness.

[DeeFish71 in reply to Buffafly]

I do try to exercise a few times a week and am pretty active as I can be considering I feel so exhausted. Its the chest pains and shooting sensations down the centre of my chest going to the left which alarms me so much.

[Buffafly in reply to DeeFish71]

Chostochondritis is very painful and lasts a long time (info courtesy of another daughter). Anti-inflammatory medications can affect your heart and breathing if you are sensitive to them. Pain from the heart feels more like a bear hug inside the centre of your chest and can spread to an ache in your arm or neck. I have a GP who explains things in a very 'Ladybird' tone which I find terribly irritating but it sounds as though yours haven't explained anything at all! A proper cardiology exam should show any problems so it's good you are having it, having said that I gave up on my GP who couldn't explain why I felt so ill but at last I had an episode of AF and got a referral to cardiology who also struggled to 'catch' it but did in the end. Basically my heart was fine, hope yours will be too 💜

PS You should add sugar to that list of things to give up 😊

[DeeFish71 in reply to Buffafly]

Thanks for your reply. I am so hoping that its "just" costo, but it's so painful and I dont really take painkillers so much, only if I REALLY have to, as having a course of 3 lots of ibuprofen for it and then rotten omeprazole on top was just not working for me. I have cut out most sugar, have mostly diet and half fat stuff, but cannot give my chocolate treats a couple of times a week up totally.

[Buffafly in reply to DeeFish71]

😊 🍫 We're not advocating torture!

[DeeFish71 in reply to Buffafly]

LOL!! I know! xxx

[Padayn01]

So sorry DeeFish that you are having a terrible time, but you will get great support on here especially CDreamer who has been amazing with me, if i was you i would make a complaint against my GP Surgery they sound awful and also i would give up the Fags, alcohol and caffeine TODAY!!!

[DeeFish71 in reply to Padayn01]

I have cut down on them but cannot quite give up. I will continue to try. I have no other GP surgery nearby and do not drive but before long I am tempted to complain. I have totally lost faith in them all up there.

[Padayn01 in reply to DeeFish71]

They sound terrible i know our GP down here is not much better but that's exactly what they did with me threw me setraline for Anxiety, sometimes we have to be our own Doctor and try work things out ourself

[DeeFish71 in reply to Padayn01]

They ALWAYS blame anxiety - I know I do suffer from that and depression but antidepressants do nothing for me. And neither have counsellors, which is another thing they keep trying to make me do. The sheer amount of appointments these last 10 months have totally ruined my life and cannot seem to fit what I need to do around them. Be ok if they actually helped me and had got me better. I panic and lose hours in a state when I have appointments as feel any tests come back normal and even if they find anything they just seem to ignore it with no follow up. And I don't want to go to the GP no more as I would have more success talking to the brick wall outside. They never seem to understand that I am frightened at what is wrong with me. My husband is so supportive but what kind of life is this for him??

[Padayn01 in reply to DeeFish71]

I know your exact feeling i've been suffering with Anxiety for 15 years and it got 1 million times worse when i had AF and same with you anti-depressants just made me 20 times worse counselling was ok but didn't really do anything long term i just had to try and find my own way like eating better and doing breathing exercises and breathing in essential natural oils and little things like that, the anxiety still there but some days its better

[CDreamer in reply to DeeFish71]

Dee - I've learned that anxiety comes in 2 forms - physiological symptoms which are often driven by there actually being something dysfunctional within the body.

And illness caused by long term anxiety/stress which sounds like your doctor's are suggesting. Now there may be some truth in that, hard though it may be for us to accept but I get frustrated when Doctor's immediately jump to the latter without fully investigating and explaining the former.

Unfortunately diagnosis is an art as much as a science. So I would encourage you to rant and rail here, and keep returning to your GP surgery with hard information and clearly stating your symptoms and asking - so this hasn't helped - what now? And just keep doing that until there are some possible answers.

There is a theory called polyvagal theory which explains how and why we become anxious and which also demonstrates that no amount of counselling will ever take away this anxiety until you actually feel safe and confident in the relationship with your Doctors - and your's doesn't sound good. Females are far more likely to be diagnosed as anxious and dismissed as this as the cause of all their ills than men and one wonders - why?

Uncertainty + insecurity (in the relationship with your GP) = anxiety = illness. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Sounds like your introspection (inner sense or knowing) knows there is something wrong - but you can't identify what and the doctor's can't tell you with any certainty what is wrong or diagnose anything physical. Very frustrating and I say this as a retired Psychotherapist and someone who has coped with chronic illness of various types for over 45 years so talking from experience and knowledge.

With this scenario the 'what if's' start and just supercharge the anxiety - that's what I call worry thoughts. Now CBT can help with worry thoughts but the very best is something called CBT/Mindfulness/Meditation Practice has been clinically tested and shown to be helpful in reducing pain, anxiety, stress etc. mbct.co.uk

It is offered on the NHS - IF you can find a programme offered locally and you meet the criteria but I found there was a long waiting period.

It's a coping mechanism - it's not a cure - but it's really important with all of these health issues that we learn how to stay calm as stress/anxiety = inflammation = illness and if you are female you are more likely to be labelled as anxious and ignored so going super factual, super logical is essential.

It's really hard to keep emotion out of it but unfortunately GP time allocations just don't allow for it and I can tell you for a fact - the GPs hate it just as much as we do.

The calmer you remain, the more logically you present yourself, the more information you give your doctors the more likely you are to get some answers to your problems, even if there may not be an immediate cure.

Anxiety and depression are intrinsically linked and there can be many causes - including physical illness, I mean who doesn't feel depressed when they are ill?

There is a lot of research currently ongoing which may link all of these issues which is imbalance of our Microbiome - but that's entirely another story.

[rosyG]

Hi Deefish

Just adding to what others have said- you mention taking Thyroid meds= I have AF and an underachieve Thyroid and don't require meds yet although have some symptoms. I go on the Thyroid site and notice a lot of people self medicate. One comment I would make is that there is a fine line between under and over activity in the Thyroid and too much medication can cause AF- in the same way that an out of sync Thyroid can.Over active thyroid also is linked with stress and anxiety Hope you are feeling better

[DeeFish71 in reply to rosyG]

I often wonder if it is the thyroid and did question my last results but the doctor became defensive and I asked to be sent to endochronology but she said "they did not want to see me" as my blood tests were deemed "normal". I lost faith in her there and then.

[Hidden in reply to DeeFish71]

I have an under active thyroid as well as AF. Why don’t you have a chat on the Thyroid forum and ask people on there to help. We are a very friendly bunch the same as on here.

The first thing they will want to look at are your thyroid results. Normal for me may not be the same as for you. You are legally entitled to them, so pop and see the receptionist and ask for a copy.

Di

[DeeFish71 in reply to Hidden]

I am already a member of the Thyroid forum - and indeed they are a nice bunch of people.

[Auriculaire in reply to DeeFish71]

You need to get the numbers not be fobbed off with "it's normal". Although the norms for TSH often go as high as 5.5 many people feel ill and have clinical symptoms of hypothyroidism with a TSH below that but are deemed "normal". You say you have been on 100mg thyroxine for years. Are they also testing freeT4 and have you ever had a free T3 test? You would probably have to have the latter done privately as NHS only usually do it if hyperthyroidism is suspected -.

[DeeFish71 in reply to Auriculaire]

The Doctor at A&E last night discussed this and showed me the results and the TSH was 0.26 when it should be 0.27 at least (according to their figures) so was deemed normal and he said they never test for T3 unless the figures are way above/below"normal".

[Hidden in reply to DeeFish71]

My TSH is 0.02 and that’s normal for me

[DeeFish71]

Just had something REALLY scary happen when cleaning the sink - not really doing it that physically but when I leant forward I had searing pain all in my left chest side and it scared the life out of me and left me feeling shaky - if it happens again I will get up A&E. It only lasted about 30 seconds.

[rosyG in reply to DeeFish71]

Yes A and E I think to get checked.

[Auriculaire in reply to DeeFish71]

Do not be scared. I have suffered from costo for years and often used to get that . It can be muscle contraction. The fact it only lasted 30 secs is reassuring. If it returns frequently or lasts longer get it checked out . The problem with costo is that the pain felt is often the same as the pain felt with heart problems. It is one of the most common cause of A&E visits f9r chest pain.

[DeeFish71 in reply to Auriculaire]

I did have dizziness and was shaken up the rest of the day about it, and that's why my husband made us go to A&E. I cannot understand why it has lasted so long and got worse. I try to exercise each day and gentle stretching, but most cases I read about only last about 2 weeks, not months/years like you and I.

[Auriculaire in reply to DeeFish71]

My rib problem is a direct result of being poisoned by a fluoroquinolone antibiotic -Cipro. Fluoroquinolones as a class attack connective tissue in the body -cartilage , tendons , ligaments even the collagen that is in our arterial walls and retinas. I have had cartilage degeneration in my ribs which causes a lot of pain on and off for 20 years now. Although costochondritis is supposed to be caused by inflammation -and the doctors have very little idea of what causes it - the degeneration of the rib cartilage gives symptoms of costo. When it is in the side ribs it is not so bad but when it affects where the sternum joins to the ribcage the pain can be very frightening - I have had this lots of times and it is hard not to immediately worry about a heart attack. One if the reassuring signs is if you can reproduce the pain by pressing hard on the area it is unlikely to be the heart.

But vit D deficiency can also cause sternum pain so it is important to get this checked out. If you press on your shin bones and that hurts too it can also be a sign vit D is low.

[Buffafly in reply to DeeFish71]

I looked costo up on the NHS website and it said it can take months to go and you can have relapses, so not abnormal. Also it can be affected by stress.

Can you explain why you don't trust your GP's judgement? Clearly something is wrong but they don't seem to think the issues already found account for your unwellness. Hopefully time will either heal or produce a symptom that helps diagnosis 💜

[DeeFish71 in reply to Buffafly]

Because I have seen every doctor up there, and they all give differing "diagnoses". Months of saying I had glandular fever, reflux and none were right. It moves about and they do not seem to understand it. And for the one I mainly saw to rudely shrug her shoulders at me that she had run out of options absolutely destroyed me. I dont expect them to be experts onEVERY illness but they could refer me to specialists to help me.

[Buffafly in reply to DeeFish71]

GPs get frustrated too I guess, but it's very upsetting for you.

[Nybroc]

I know this is almost impossible but the really important thing for you is not to worry and not to panic. Ten years ago I had anxiety attacks due to very odd heart beats. I'm fairly sure it was the start of my atrial fibrillation but the incidents were very short lived and difficult to capture with ecg. Slowly the poor heart rhythms lasted longer and I was diagnosed with afib. The disease progressed. I had cardioversions one of which gave me three years of good rhythm. Eventually I progressed to permanent afib. I keep this under control with exercise and diet. My message to you is twofold. Firstly the fear of afib is much worse than afib itself. Secondly my advice to my younger self is try to address the root causes. For me that was being massively overweight, being stressed through over work and getting poor quality sleep through stress. This sounds ridiculous but make your default mode happiness. It has helped me and many others. Afib is not welcome but it is no where as near as bad as it seems at the start.

[CDreamer in reply to Nybroc]

Such good advice for us all.

[DeeFish71 in reply to Nybroc]

I try to be happy but it is impossible in all this pain with the ribs and the alarming shooting pains.

[Auriculaire]

Were you given an antibiotic for the chest infection? Have you had your level of vitamin D tested ? Costochondritis can be caused by vit D deficiency particularly if stenum pain is involved. Vit D deficiency can also make you feel generally ill . Also have your levels of calcium been tested? . Similar vague general symptoms of illness can be caused by parathyroid disease. My sister had this and it took her awhile to be diagnosed. Magnesium supplements might help with the anxiety.

[DeeFish71 in reply to Auriculaire]

Yes, the standard Clarithythromicin which is usual but they didn;t touch it, and then Doxycyclin - which is STILL what I blame this whole chain of events on. That started the downhill decline with more and more problems appearing. I just cannot understand why I was not given a course of prednisone to kick the virus, like I had had several years before.

[Auriculaire in reply to DeeFish71]

Are you taking a probiotic to try and restore your microbiome? Have you ever been given a fluoroquinolone antibiotic such as Cipro?

[DeeFish71 in reply to Auriculaire]

Not on any of these and never heard of that other one you mention. I do take a multi vitamin every day and try to eat 3 bits of fruit a day too.

[Auriculaire in reply to DeeFish71]

Two courses of antibiotics would have damaged the good bacteria in the gut. It can take a long time for this to recover and taking a probiotic supplement can help. You need to eat lots of things like onions , garlic and brassicas - basically stuff that makes you fart- because the good bacteria like this and it helps them multiply. Eating natural yoghurt is good too. You should avoid antibiotics for chest infections as most are caused by viruses anyway and will get better by themselves. Often this takes several weeks and most people are not prepared to wait that long.

[DeeFish71 in reply to Auriculaire]

I have a varied diet and love my yogurts. I have had antibiotics for chest infections before which have worked and no problems apart from the rare bout of thrush.

[PICCASO]

Hi what is your resting blood pressure and your heart beats per minutes

[DeeFish71 in reply to PICCASO]

I don't actually know - I know I should ask for printouts etc but my mind is so full up and I am feeling tired/ill that I forget

[PICCASO]

Maybe buy yourself a blood pressure monitor that will give your BPM as well , my ectopic beats were caused by slow heartbeat ie 40 bpm caused by bisoprolol so cardiologist halved my dose now ok

[FancyPants54]

Hi

You are smack in the middle of peri-menopause and a lot of the issues you are having are common to that stage in life. Apart from the pain, but that could be anxiety related, which in turn is menopause related. You might find you do better seeing someone about this side of things while you wait for your cardiology appointment.

There's an excellent web site for up to date information about all things menopause called menopausedoctor.co.uk. I recommend you spend some time on that site and read up all you can. Menopause and thyroid is a double whammy and will make things worse. You may need an increase in thyroxine now or you may just need some HRT to help you calm down and get back on track. The information on the web site is very comprehensive about everything menopause.

[DeeFish71 in reply to FancyPants54]

Thank you for this info. I will certainly read it. And once the cardio stuff is over, I will question that Doctor about the possibility of it being menopause x I need to clear the cardio appointments first as I cannot cope with the sheer amounts of appointments, I barely have time to do my work because of them xx

[Hidden]

Strangely after 45 years of suffering PVC's I have been into self diagnosing but in my case have had considerable success.

I was taking a pee one day and noticed that my pee was quite dark. So I drank some water. A lot of water. And kept it up for weeks. I noticed that over this time my pee was becoming a lot lighter but also, that my accursed PVC's had pretty well gone away, and also reduced considerably in intensity to the point where I could barely feel them so my anxiety reduced considerably.

I also told my GP that I was taking Levothyroxene. He nearly exploded, assuring me that this stuff actually CAUSES arrhythmias. So I stopped taking it and the remaining half of a thyroid still seems to be doing its job.

I also know that when I used to get really bad ectopic, a dose of Gaviscon ALWAYS stopped them in under an hour.

So now I drink loads of water, keep an eye on the colour of my pee, cut way back on carbs ( I eat a piece of steak or pork for breakfast and a bowl of microwaved vegies for lunch) and do plenty of exercise to reduce my blubber, and started drinking Heinekin Zero instead of ordinary beer, and can say I haven't felt this good in 40 years.

Regards Cliff in Western Australia.

[Auriculaire in reply to Hidden]

Thyroxine does not cause arrythmias in those who need it because their thyroids are not working properly. Usually a thyroid panel is performed to see if this is the case . Your doctor sounds very ill informed .

[DeeFish71 in reply to Hidden]

I have had underactive thyroid for 11 years and been on Levo as that is what the doctors said was needed. I do have blood tests which sometimes I think are not enough - we do not get T3 in this country tested so many people are on the wrong meds. I do drink tons of water and my pee is pretty normal x

[FancyPants54]

Know that I had a LOT of ectopic beats and fast runs of heartbeat before I went onto HRT.

Also, after the age of 48 you don't need a blood test to diagnose menopause. Doctors should offer treatment based on symptoms. It's in the NICE guidelines.

[DeeFish71 in reply to FancyPants54]

Only really noticed my periods were a bit odd in the last 9 months. One that got stuck and would not flow out, then once it did, it lasted 2 weeks. Then not had one for 6 weeks, had a few normal ones but this one now has not arrived and almost a month late. Not pregnant either.

[FancyPants54 in reply to DeeFish71]

Well that's typical of peri. And anxiety, and feeling tired and aching joints and muscle weakness and a tendency toward hypochondria, dry skin, lack-lustre hair, heart beat issues, feelings of doom and irrational fear, waking in the night, heart pounding for no reason. Ah the joys!