Experiment update - 3 months

[WendyWu20]

Hi all, just a little update on my experiment. Three months ago I decided to stop taking Flecainide and Apixaban. I felt very unhealthy on the Apixaban and my heart was getting so much worse even when I wasn't having AF episodes.

I have not had any AF since. Despite several potential big triggers: an emergency admission for acute pancreatitis and liver problems/blocked gallbladder; normal stressful situations; taking part in a choir concert with very lively choreography; high temps now here in Spain, about 32oC this week.

I've a had few occasions were I felt I was in 'pre-AF', with a headache and a bad pounding in the neck area, yet I didn't go into AF! I get a few palpitations now and then, but this is nothing compared to the almost continual irregularities I was having while taking Flecainide.

So I'm currently very happy, I know three months is a relatively short time, but to an AF-er who suffered almost constantly, this feels amazing.

I have to add that I also tried Something Else prior to stopping the meds. I know most people will think this is a coincidence but I want to mention it. I consulted a therapist who works with EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques), she was recommended by the founder Gary Craig. We worked together on identifying and releasing some BIG issues I'd had from childhood, and she helped with spiritual healing of these. What can I say? No AF since....... let's see how things work out :o)

[jeanjeannie50]

I did exactly the same as you Wendy and that is stopped my 2 x 100mg Flecainide and 2 x 12.5 Metoprolol. I'm now into my 5th month AF free and am feeling really well. Once after eating a really large meal I felt AF was going to kick off, but I immediately started breathing deeply and was fine. I won't be eating large meals from now on though!

Jean

[Hidden in reply to jeanjeannie50]

I havent had any a fib for over a year now. I have noticed when I over eat( especially unhealthy foods) I sometimes get the “ pre a fib” symptoms in the evening but so far so good.

[Icenae in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Hi Jean. Hope you dont mind

My asking your advice. I have been swopped to metoprolol 50 mg twice daily from bisoprolol by request as still running over 100 bpm when upping dose. And blaming bisoprolol for breathless on exertion. But feel more sleepy after 2 days metoprolol. Did you notice any difference with metoprolol.

Am vert tempted to dump beta blockers too.

X

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Icenae]

Metoprolol has a strong effect on me and so I only ever took 12.5mg along with my Flecainide. Years ago I was on just Metoprolol, but can't remember much about it or the dose now, other than I took myself off that too. It would take my BP down too low and make me feel very fragile. One day my GP said to me, I don't know why they make that pill so strong.

I would never advise anyone to stop taking their pills, it's a decision we have make on our own. We are all so different in the way our hearts are misbehaving and the way our bodies respond to medication. What suits one may not suit another.

Are you able to take your blood pressure to see if it's going down too low?

Jean

[Icenae in reply to jeanjeannie50]

I will check it. But not feeling dizzy. i find the metoprolol is making me very sleepy and absolutely no effect on heart rate. Still over 110 mostly. Same with bisoprolol. Also finding it gives me stomach disturbance. Pity as I requested a change to see if it helped.

My last ablation helped as I am more tachy than af. Dont get the awful heart crashing around feeling now.

[jedimasterlincoln]

That all sounds very encouraging.

I'm sure it will be mentioned, if not by me but someone else, that stopping the apixaban - what was/is your CHADS2 score and stroke risk?

re: the therapy - anxiety (supressed or not) is a bedfellow with AF so I don't believe it is coincidence that you've explored this option and had results, regardless of discontinuing medicines! Well done you!

[WendyWu20 in reply to jedimasterlincoln]

I had a score for having high blood pressure when I was first started on Apixaban, but after losing weight the BP was normal and so was my Chadscore. When on Apixaban I couldn't take any natural anticoagulants, but now I can take health supplements and eat as much garlic etc as I like. And no more side effects, such as hair loss, skin not healing, sore gums, and bladder infections. Woohoo :o)

[Coco51 in reply to WendyWu20]

Good news! Unfortunately cutting Flecainide didn't work for me. Although hypnotherapy helped a lot with stress, anxiety and anger, and it lessened my symptoms significantly. So I would agree your EFT may well have helped you. But interesting those medications were linked to bladder infections, I've had a few lately and wonder if that's a common side effect?

[Hidden in reply to WendyWu20]

you still score 1 for high blood pressure unfortunately, as do I, but I also opt not to take AC until something changes that score

[LaceyLady in reply to WendyWu20]

well done👍🏻 I was a Complementary Therapist for 25 years, practiced EFT as well as Reflexology etc. Hair loss! I get that with Apixaban changed to Rivoxaban and getting it again 😳 Medication has far more side effects that the ruddy conditions!

I might have a go at lowering my flec not had a problem with PAF since last October, when it was increased.

[WendyWu20 in reply to jedimasterlincoln]

The therapy wasn't for anxiety, I was harbouring a lot of anger since childhood towards a family member, and felt 'heartbroken' that I hadn't been properly cared for by this person. Either way, I have healed from this issue at the very least :o)

[jedimasterlincoln in reply to WendyWu20]

Very good news x

[Icenae]

Long may it last Wendy. I really sympathise. I take higher and higher doses of beta blockers fo af/tachy. which do nothing. I am tempted to stop the lot. EFT is very effective. I learnt it whilst a reflexologist. I used it successfully for flying. I will now try it for other issues. Worth a try. Stay well. X

[Paulbounce]

Nice post Wendy. It sounds like things are really working out for you.

Can I just ask you a couple of things ? You said you were having irregularities when you were taking Flecainide. OK I`m on this stuff - 200 mg a day. For me it seems to working (at the moment) but I have heard others say it makes their heart beat irregular. That worries me to be honest.

The other thing as well is heat. I`m in Bulgaria at the moment and the temp here will soon match yours in Spain. I`ll be back in the UK in two weeks before returning here. The temp then might hit the 40`s. I have read that heat and hot weather can trigger afib. How do you find a hot climate ? Any problems ?

Best,

Paul

[WendyWu20 in reply to Paulbounce]

I first moved to Spain last June, it was scorching for 4 months and I was so ill with the AF. Having bad episodes lasting for days, at least once a week and felt crap. However, we've had heat again this year and so far I've been fine.

[WendyWu20 in reply to Paulbounce]

Re Flecainide: at first it seemed to calm my heart, although it didn't stop the AF episodes at all once I was in them. Then I seemed to get more non-AF irregularities and I stopped it for a few months. Then I got p'd off having so much AF and decided out of desperation to restart it. Then I had the EFT therapy and had no AF for a fortnight but really bad palpitations that were getting worse and worse. As soon as I stopped the Flecainide, they stopped.

[Icenae in reply to Paulbounce]

I recently spent 5 weeks in Australia in hot temperatures. It didnt seem to have any adverse effects. Just same old. Make sure you are in the shade where possible and adequately hydrated. Not overhydrated. I find coconut water very good. (Not too much though as high potassium levels. ). Pace yourself too. Plenty of rests.

[pottypete1]

It is very brave of you to stop taking Flecainide and the outcome so far is very encouraging.

I have been taking Flecainide for nearly 30 years and often wish I had the nerve to do as you have done.

However at present I am very stable so I am not contemplating taking the plunge

right now.

Take note of @jedimasterlincoln regarding Anticoagulation I think you should discuss this with your EP as you may be at risk.

Well done.

Pete

[CDreamer]

Well done you - I’m a great fan of EFT and trained & integrated into my practice, when I was practising. The fewer meds we take the better.

I follow an ‘energy’ routine every day which includes some tapping but I have noticed a huge difference since I am being much more rigorous with my daily practice. You might also look on YouTube for Donna Eden videos on 5 minute daily energy routine.

[WendyWu20 in reply to CDreamer]

I don't use the tapping, I use Gary craig's 'unseen therapist' methods and worked remotely with a practitioner in the USA. I also did a lot of work myself during meditation, for insight and healing. It was a big issue I'd had with a family member and was harbouring a lot of anger, and also 'heartbreak' that I hadn't been loved and cared for by this person. So even if the AF hadn't been helped, I still gained so much from the process :o)

[CDreamer in reply to WendyWu20]

Whatever works for you. I use a variety of tools from meditation to very practical therapies and they all have a place and a time. I did 5 years of personal therapy and still find I need different things at different times. And the biggest step is to decide to find a way to be well and be the agent in your own recovery. Taking control is so important.

[Icenae in reply to CDreamer]

Thats great cdreamer. I started with tapping but if need a top up in public I imagine the tapping. Still very effective.

I am glad for the prompt. Sometimes you fotget what did you good. Will try it again. Did you use affirmations.

[Jjda]

I applaud you taking control of your health. I know my EP would never agree to my stopping Apixiban, even though I have had an ablation, my blood pressure is under control, and I have had no instances of Afib in a year. But I am 65, and a woman with a history of high blood pressure, so there you have it. I will keep trying to convince him. But, I also would like to quit the Metoprolol. Did you find it made you sleepy, and affected your ability to lose weight? I am tired all the time with this stuff. I may ask my EP to take me from 25 mg once a day to 12.5 mg once a day.

[Oldiemoldy in reply to Jjda]

Just saw my EP 8 weeks post ablation. He agreed I could reduce metoprolol dose to 12.5 mg. Hope to leave it behind once healing period if 4 months is completed.

Anticoagulant May be permanent. Since family history is full of strokes I’m not going to fight it.

[Icenae]

I would not consider stopping any anticoagulants either. They protect us from the big hazard with af. Which is stroke. I may Just drop the rate control meds if not working.

[secondtry]

Well done Wendy. I hope I will be in a position to stop the Flecainide next year (nb I have been saying that for 4 years now!). You mention EFT and I think that could be a key player for you.I am just getting around to seeing that I am underutilising my mind in building a more positive outlook; in my case religion is a big comfort.