SVT after swallowing

[Elsieclarke]

Hi all

Don’t post often but love this forum and read your posts every day. Had two ablation for afib last one over a year ago. Now get svt every month or a couple of times a month. Last month for two days it kicked off every time I swallowed - was ok with liquid but porridge or yogurt or anything set it off. Went to GPS who prescribed me PPIs. Settled for a month and yesterday it was back again. Just wondered if anyone else had experienced this. I take flecanide pill in the pocket and so can get it stopped with that or by blowing through sringe eventually. But it’s so worrying when it happens as feel like I’ll pass out and so embarrassing at work.

[jeanjeannie50]

Hi Elsie, sorry to hear you are having this problem. I'm just wondering, when you say porridge and yogurt set it off, could you be lactose intolerant? If not do you think you could be swallowing too much air as you eat?

Jean

[Elsieclarke in reply to jeanjeannie50]

I am lactose intolerant but it was almond milk in porridge and non dairy yogurt. Just seemed to be anything I was swallowing. Would get to the base of my gullet and trigger it. It’s eased off since I took my flecainide. There is some cases of it on internet but not much. Wondering now with SVT happening at least one a month whether I should ask to take a daily dose of flecainide. But also remember that they saw flutter on my admission once way back at the beginning of my journey about 5 years ago so wary of taking daily dose.

[Kellyjelly]

Hi Elsie, you poor thing I really feel for you this sounds awful 😪

I have been having elevated heart rate after eating, not an abnormal rhythm just tachycardia for a long time now. It’s been so debilitating. Since my ablation for SVT it happens less and I can control it to a certain degree if I eat a plant based and low carb diet with very small meals. It still happens but much less than before.

Have you thought about an ablation for your SVT?

[Elsieclarke in reply to Kellyjelly]

Hi Kellyjelly - they tried to find SVT when they did my 1st ablation for afib a couple of years ago - they couldn’t trigger it so were unable to do anything so not sure that would try again. Prior to my second afib ablation at the beginning of last year I seldom had SVT. As soon As I had my ablation for afib at the beginning of 2018 it started - very frequently at 1st and now one or twice a month. On the positive side I have only had afib 3 times in the last year so that has improved but been replaced by SVT.

[Kellyjelly in reply to Elsieclarke]

I just wonder if it would be easier to provoke it now that it seems to have gotten so much worse? Does your EP know that the SVT has progressed?

[Elsieclarke in reply to Kellyjelly]

Yes at my last appointment he said to wait till my next appointment to see how I am coping with it. That’s September. As I am managing to stop it they probably see that as me coping with it. It always stops within two hours. But emotionally not sure I am coping with it as time goes on.

[Kellyjelly in reply to Elsieclarke]

September must seem a long way off, I hope that they will take into account the impact it will be having on you in every way, be sure to tell them won’t you. Its not just about duration of episodes the emotional impact can be very difficult to deal with.

Take good care 😊

[Auriculaire in reply to Kellyjelly]

How do you manage to eat a plant based diet that is low carb? All plants are carbs though some have protein as well. What do you eat?

[Kellyjelly in reply to Auriculaire]

I was talking more about processed carbs as in bread, pasta, cakes, pastries etc. Not technically correct I know but I think that you know what I mean.

[Kellyjelly in reply to Kellyjelly]

Perhaps I should have said I limit the amount of meat I eat, I have stopped eating highly processed carbohydrate and high sugar foods, I try to eat as naturally as possible. I have increased me vegetable intake by about 70% and I eat a lot of pulses and nuts. So lots of lovely healthy complex carbohydrates and none of the refined processed carbohydrates that my body seems to struggle to cope with. Sorry I didn’t make this clearer, I thought it would be obvious, especially here where so many people seem to have a similar problem with their diet causing havoc with their digestive systems and hearts.

[Auriculaire in reply to Kellyjelly]

I was just curious as to what you meant. Do you still eat wholewheat bread as part of the complex carbs? I have found using a glucose testing device that bread really makes my blood sugar spike more than anything else. This happens even with the homemade bread my husband bakes for us. It is made with mainly wholewheat flour , nuts and pumpkin seeds and is quite dense. I have cut down on bread , pasta and rice and only eat small amounts of these . We eat a lot of fish and only eat red meat about once a week but I keep portion size of fish poultry and meat small. I find if we eat out the amount given is huge - always twice and sometimes 3 times the size of the portion I would eat at home. It is wasteful as I cannot finish it!

I am wary of all this plant based diet stuff. I have a friend in England who was a doctor before retiring . Due to cultural reasons she has not eaten animal based protein all her life apart from some dairy. Since a gall bladder removal she cannot digest fats. Skeletely she is in very bad shape which she puts down to a lifetime of not eating enough protein. The protein in pulses is harder for our bodies to assimilate and only makes up about 20-25% by volume so they have to be consumed in much larger amounts. I would like someone to point me towards some studies ( RCTs preferably with large numbers of participants) that show definitely that plant based diets are healthier. So far I remain unconvinced.

[Kellyjelly in reply to Auriculaire]

Plant based means different things to different people I think. To me it’s just a rather simplistic way to describe a shift in my diet where plants including pulses and grains make up a larger percentage of my diet than animal products.

I was so ill at the beginning of the year and so desperate that I decided to follow a vegan whole food diet to try and reset my poor digestive system. I did this until my ablation and it helped, I have reintroduced dairy and meat but processed carbohydrates still make me feel really unwell. My diet suits me and even though I still have problems they are definitely much less than before.

I’m sorry to hear the story of your friend and I’m afraid I can’t point you to any evidence that the plant based diet or the diet I’ve cobbled together for myself is healthier, I have no idea if it is or not but it is making me feel better. Although I will say that I did see recently on the news that a community of 7th Day Adventist’s in America have come to the attention of the medical community because the follow a vegetarian diet, exercise regularly and find smoke or consume alcohol and they seem to enjoy great health and longevity. Also vegetarianism is a diet followed by a huge part of the global population and I’m not sure there are any studies that would say this is unhealthy in itself?

I think that balance is the most important thing and I also think that diet becomes extremely important if you feel like it is negatively affecting your health on a daily basis.

I do f eat any type of bread at the moment, I haven’t been able to find any so far that doesn’t make me feel awful.

Take good care 😊

[Auriculaire in reply to Kellyjelly]

Interesting that bread makes you feel awful. A lot of people seem to have this problem. The 7th day Adventists are very much among the movers and shakers in the push for vegetarianism. It is interesting to read about their history and people who were Adventists like Dr Kellogg. They have had a very big influence on the American Dietetic Association. Their espousing of vegetarianism comes from a supposed vision from God one of their founders had forbidding "flesh" consumption on the grounds that it inflamed the passions and encouraged masturbation. However I have read that they are not all purely vegetarian but that some eat fish. Enough maybe to skew the figures? There are other long living communities in the world who are not vegetarian. The Spanish have just moved into the no 1 spot in the longevity stakes. They eat a lot of fish - the pro Brexit fishermen are hoping to keep the Spanish boats out of uk waters post Brexit! One of my major cavils is the vagueness of the term "plant based". How much animal based is allowed ? 20%? 40%? Or is it just another term for vegetarian? I don't think vegetarian diets are unhealthy in themselves but I do think those on them have to work much harder at ensuring they are getting all the nutirents in sufficient quantities. Vegans especially are at greater risk of B12 and iron deficiency. My son in law has been a vegan for the last 30 years. When he was young he ate enormous quantities of food. Now he eats far less . I think he has developed an unhealthy greyish tinge and he seems to spend a lot of time in the loo!

Before having 26 cm removed from my colon I had to stick to a low fibre diet during flare ups of diverticulitis. This was awful - no raw veggies and very little cooked ones . No wholemeal bread or other wholegrains and no seedy fruits. Definitely no dried fruit or nuts or seeds. It was unpleasant as I like veg but I did used to lose weight on it. I hope you continue to do well on your diet and that your ablation has fixed the afib. Nobody has ever suggested an ablation to me. I expect my cardiologist thinks my afib episodes are too infrequent. But despite being free since mid Oct I did have a suspected TIA a few weeks ago. This was a nasty wake up call.

[Kellyjelly in reply to Auriculaire]

Oh I’m sorry to hear that, I hope you are recovering ok. That must have been very frightening.

I’m afraid your knowledge far outstrips mine with regard all the diet stuff. I hear what you are saying about vegans, vegetarians not accessing vital nutrients etc but as far as I’m aware the “typical “ American diet leaves a lot to be desired in terms of nutrients.

In my case my body tells me very clearly the food that it is struggling with, I have no idea why I have developed these problems over the years ( imagine if my typical western diet was to blame, just a thought??) so for now I can only say the changes are helping. I don’t feel deprived and I don’t feel like a fastidious follower of any particular diet , I’m just trying to feel as well as I can.

[Auriculaire in reply to Kellyjelly]

Oh it's probably better to be a cooking vegan rather than follow the standard Western diet. I believe that processed food is junk and it is impossible to be healthy without cooking from scratch whether you are an omnivore or a vegetarian. What I do worry about is the push of food companies in all this as veggie and vegan ready meals and artificial meats are big new markets. I am cynical and often think "who's profiting ?" from all this. The push for low fat diets in the 80s and 90s greatly increased the profits of cereal producers and corn growers as corn syrup was put into all sorts of low fat processed foods to make them more palatable. It has been found out that the sugar industry paid nutritionists and doctors to rubbish fat and leave sugar alone just as the tobacco industry tried to protect their poison! I think the major message should always be eat real food and don't pig out! The second bit is harder here in France. The French are masters at pigging out and find it hard to understand that not everybody can manage the 6 or7 course meals they go in for on special occasions! They have a saying for the feeble "the appetite comes with eating"! My brain scan showed no damage from the TIA but the main scare was finding I could not write properly. The leg weakness disappeared very quickly but my writing is still not normal. Going on Apixaban was not very welcome either.

[Dangerousdriver]

Firstly, how long does the SVT last when it kick off?

Secondly, I’m assuming you are on other meds, such as beta blockers, blood thinners? If so then trust in the meds. You aren’t going to keel over or suffer heart failure just like that. You are essentially going into shock, do you need to regulate your breathing. In for ten etc and slow your breathing to slow the heart.

Well as for this, it sounds like the EP might have caused damage to the oesophageal area during the ablation. Seems strange though it hasn’t presented itself sooner. But, the passing out is shock so the breathing will help with that. Once you realise you aren’t going to die, then it’ll pass. It could be causing a vagal nerve reaction maybe.

I’d be getting straight to the GP and getting a referral for a camera to have a look down your throat to see if there is anything obvious.

Good luck 👍🏻

[meadfoot]

The heart gut connection is well acknowledged. It would appear you are having some interaction there hence the ppis prescribed. I am having investigations re Oesophagus and heart connection currently. It may be worth asking your GP to look into this further for you. SVT is horrible as I know but pleased flecainide pip is useful for you. Best wishes x

[Elsieclarke]

Thanks for this. I’m not on any other meds as they tried beta blockers and calcium channel blockers some years ago and they reacted badly in different ways. I’m not on anticoagulant as I’m 54. The SVT can last anytime from 10 minutes to 2 hours. I’ve tried the breathing. Often get it stopped by the blowing into a Syringe and then lying back and lifting my legs. Not fun in the toilet at work😀. Thanks for the pointers about the oesophageal area. I’ll ask GP and see what she says. It is funny the SVT really only became frequent post ablation a year ago but its only recently the swallow issue has arisen.

[MydogBrandy]

I used to find blowing through a syringe made me light headed. Try drinking iced water quickly, this worked for me quite often x

[Elsieclarke in reply to MydogBrandy]

Thanks for this. I’ll try this next time.