AF Association
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Homeopathy & AF

Hello there, I've had some interesting experiences lately with homeopathic remedies in treating AF and thought I'd share.

I saw my cardiologist yesterday for the first time in 8 months and he suggested that I switch from Flec PIP to daily doses of 50 mg 2x/day. Not crazy about this, but decided to try the first 50 last night and woke up in AF.

Since I have to teach today, I decided to take my usual 100 mg dose of Flec to stop an episode, with a little Toprol. Normally, it will take around 4 hours for me to go back to NSR.

After waiting 20 minutes after taking the Flec, I took 2 pellets of the homeopathic remedy Arnica and immediately went back to NSR.

This is the third time I've used Arnica this way in conjunction with Flec, with the same result. Immediately back in NSR.

As unpredictable as AF can be, any pattern that stops an episode is one I enjoy as long as it lasts!

My homeopath discovered a remedy (Naja) a while ago that she used with success with a man who had intense AF episodes and had had multiple ablations. His doctors were quite surprised by the results.

I took the remedy last week for the first time and had an "Aggravation," which is uncomfortable, but ultimately a good thing in terms of healing. She suggested taking Arnica afterwards to settle my system down.

Now I take it as I described, after Flec, and it's very interesting to see the speed with which it works. No interactions, either. I picture it going into my system and just calming down that sometimes crazy Flec and bringing us all a bit of peace! :-)

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Very interesting. What strength was it? I am devoted to arnica for bruising etc but any new use is great news.

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It's 2 pellets of 30c Arnica Montana. The instructions on the package say to take 5, but my homeopath says 2 is fine.

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Many thanks. Any more snippets from your lovely homeopath are always welcome. Which part of the country are you in?

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I’m in the States, in California. Near San Francisco; in Berkeley, to be exact. We have loads of holistic health practitioners, so I feel fortunate.

I’ve had the impression that homeopathy is more common and accepted in Europe than here. Are you in the UK?

The remedy I took, and apparently just needed a very little bit of is called Naja. It’s from snake venom! Cobra, to be exact. I haven’t found a good article about it yet, but if I do, I’ll share it.

The symbolism of it comes from the tale of the Naja Cobra that shielded the Buddha. Not sure if it was right before or after he became enlightened. I like the protectiveness in that image/tale.

I heard the story for the first time when my homeopath told me and so I’m still looking for a good source to understand it better. I’ll share it if I find one.

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Well,for one thing,The Queen is a bit fan of homeopathy,always has been apparently! I always prefer lifestyle or natural remedies where possible.

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Yes, I am in the UK and would say that I am not sure homeopathy is any more accepted here than in California. It is still considered alternative and I believe is no longer able to be given under the NHS. Nevertheless, the Queen is a great fan of it and carries it everywhere she goes, apparently.

Thanks for the info on naja. I have never seen that in any of my books on homeopathy. I do self treat quite a lot with the well known remedies like arnica and rhus tox, arsenicum etc. Unfortunately, although I have seen many practitioners over the years, they have never agreed on my constitutional type, which is very odd and annoying.

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I live in NYC and have access to holistic tx as well recommended products for years. However, mainstream medicine does not incorporate same into their plan of care. Nurses do. The rebel stigma is gone but I think some feel it's taking a risk if not licensed in that area. Pharmacist will hear me out and I'm clear what I'm not going to take often give other suggestions.

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Yes, it’s important to become clear and communicate about what one will and won’t take, isn’t it? I’ve come to see that it’s quite a different dynamic than I’d realized at the beginning of the AF adventure. I can’t afford to just take what they tell me at the dosage they tell me without thoroughly examining it.

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I just ordered them from Amazon ... what a great find. Thank you!! It comes in many strengths. I ordered the 30c per your suggestion. However, it is supposedly FANTASTIC for pain as well ... my husband always has pain issues with his knees from playing soccer! Thank you for the information!

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Hi Nella

Thank you for sharing this interesting information re Arnica. I'm glad I have some in the house and will certainly give it a try should I have an AF attack. The strength of mine is 30c, is that the same as yours? Have you ever tried using the Arnica on it's own without the Flec to see if that works?

Jean

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Hi Jean, yes, it's 30c, 2 pellets. I haven't tried it without the Flec, but that's a good idea. It's been quite interesting today. I woke up, went into AF (which is rather unusual), then started feeling rather awful. I really think it was from the Flec; that kind of episode is stronger and more uncomfortable. I went through the usual checklist of how long might it last, should I still teach, etc., etc. After taking the Flec, Toprol, & Arnica, I rested and could feel my heart calm right down. I am so relieved that I've been in NSR all day and feel like my old self again.

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Hi Jean, I tried starting with Arnica solo this evening when I slipped into AF & it did flip back to NSR within minutes. Then I had a spell of jitteriness, back and forth (“Unclassified” readings on my Kardia), AF again an hour or so later. I took the Flec, a little Toprol, more Arnica & was back in NSR in 10 minutes. It even lifted the Flex headache.

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I'm pleased to hear that Arnica is working for you and even helped cure your headache. I'll certainly give it a try should my AF return.

I've been almost 3 months AF free now, yippee! I was like this last summer, but then it came back around October time. I often ponder as to why that was and have several ideas to explore, but I'm really hoping it won't do that again this year. Like you Flec and Metoprolol had always been my medication, but my AF nurse at the hospital where I have my ablations has said not to take the Flec again without first having an ECG. I think those pills may have been causing my constant AF. I've been told I can take the Metoprolol again if needed and would be happy to do that. I have to be careful with them though as I was once given two to take one evening in my local hospital and collapsed when I got out of bed next morning. They'd taken everything down too low. My local AF nurse has warned that they could kill me, so I'd only ever take a maximum of say half a pill.

I swear my body reaction to medication is extremely different to that of other people. I guess we all think we are unique! Lol.

Stay well.

Jean

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Hi Jean ... I am back!! We had a fab time ... Vienna, Budapest, mountain resort in Serbia ... Belgrade ... we had a blast! You can see my pics on Facebook (Jan Maree) ... no issues whatsoever ... l felt great the entire time! Thank you Dear Lord.

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Have Pm'd you.

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Very interesting, thanks for posting. I’m a big arnica fan and it helped me, along with other remedies, for IBsS recommended alongside diet changes which definately worked for me.

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Yes, I've been a fan, too. It has worked wonders after the occasional jolt from a mild car accident.

I find homeopathy fascinating and feel very fortunate to have a lovely practitioner whom I've worked with for years. She's also a physician's assistant. She puts a lot of time and effort into studying the various remedies and discerning the best ones for me to try and i also one of the kindest people I've ever met.

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Moderate Interaction

Be cautious with this combination

!

Medications that slow blood clotting (Anticoagulant / Antiplatelet drugs) interacts with ARNICA

Arnica might slow blood clotting. Taking arnica along with medications that also slow clotting might increase the chances of bruising and bleeding.<br/><br/> Some medications that slow blood clotting include aspirin, clopidogrel (Plavix), diclofenac (Voltaren, Cataflam, others), ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin, others), naproxen (Anaprox, Naprosyn, others), dalteparin (Fragmin), enoxaparin (Lovenox), heparin, warfarin (Coumadin), and others

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Thanks, Vonnieruth. I'm trusting my homeopath on this one. Given everything I've been dealing with lately with the overpowering drugs and their wretched side effects that I've had to discover on my own or from folks in this forum, I'm fine with using Arnica in this way as long as it works.

I guess there are tradeoffs pretty much everywhere in dealing with AF, aren't there?

It's worth mentioning that I asked my homeopath if it might be helpful to simply take Arnica every day and she told me not to because my body would become used to it and it wouldn't be as effective.

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Your correct Nella Homeopathic remedies such as Arnica and Rhus Tox are to be taken as a rescue remedy as they are not to be confused with Vitamin supplements..

Keep well Nella.

Carol.

I administeted Arnica alternating with Rhus Tox to my dog when she was receiving Chemotherapy for canine meningitis 18 months ago ...(She had an irregular heartbeat too)..This was with the Neurosurgeons consent.She survived this crippling disease against all odds and has made a complete recovery.

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Hi Vonnie..curious what your thoughts are 're taking arnica n stopping 2 baby aspirin per day. We think prevention . They think " doing the job right" Love the passion of both.....thinking holistically.

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Interesting that Arnica sent your heart back into NSR.

Having always recommended Arnica and Rhos Tox salts to my patients for Arthritis including skin conditions in particular and Arnica oil itself for bruising and muscle pain.

Great if you find it sooths your heart too.

Carol...

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What's been very interesting today is both the immediacy of my heart going back into NSR (always a welcome relief!) and the complete lifting of the muck I feel with too much Flec, namely an awful depression, overall fatigue, and some fuzzy-headedness.

It simply vanished, like the Arnica somehow wiped it all out completely.

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Nella I am so pleased you have discovered the therapeutic benefits of Arnica and homeopathy ...

Keep well .

Carol.

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That's amazing. I've used Arnica for pain relief but not as an oral tx ...

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Hello Hock,Cell salts ie Arnica or Rhus Tox etc balance the equalibrium...Homeopathic or Anthrophosophical medicine has been around since B.C where as convential medicine has only been around for 200yrs.

There is room in modern medicine for both to work hand and hand as many forward thinking Vets and Drs.are now are realizing..

Must cultivate my Poison Ivy now to produce my very own Rhos Tox 😉

Carol.

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Thank you, Carol. I appreciate your kindness. So happy to have found this forum.

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Thank you!!

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Nella , this is very interesting , I despise taking all these drugs, makes me very miserable , as I, like most people on here thought I was really healthy , any way I am a very big fan of alternatives so if anything could help just a little , would be amazing , so as I take Flec x 2 a day every day , what do you suggest Arnica after an episode of AF , or the other one you mentioned also , I am wilingl to give anything a try , and are they compatible as far as you know with man made drugs, there always seems to be a little footnote somewhere , on the homeopathic remedies, not all , any further info would be great , thank you x x

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And herein lies the problem - the misunderstanding of how homeopathy works. With pharmaceutical drugs the mechanism is based on cause and effect so the amount of the drug you absorp needs to be of efficacious amount - something you can test that the drug has had the desired affect. Homeopathy on the other hand works on completely, some would say unproven, principles because the amount of active ingredient is so very diluted when taken orally, it cannot possibly have an efficacious affect - according to science - yet millions of people will swear that it does.

Hence no-one with any knowledge of homeopathy would worry about interactions with pharmaceuticals. Herbs and supplements of course are a completely different matter as there are some such as Valarian, St John’s Wort etc Which certainly do interact. Which is why it’s not a good idea to buy off the shelf products without the advice of a natureopath, Herbalist or other qualified practicitioner.

Please do go see a qualified homeopath before experimenting, it’s usually a one off appointment.

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The first homeopath I went to was a Sikh NHS doctor in London who did homeopathy privately. He gave me a very thorough examination before prescribing anything.

The next one I went I think was self taught and had some strange and wrong medical beliefs.

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Hi veraloliver, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I wouldn't presume to give anyone advice on what to do with any medication, supplement, herbal formulation, or homeopathic remedy.

I'd like to clarify the spirit of my post.

If something works in bringing me back to NSR quickly and doesn't cause wretched side effects, it's cause to celebrate! I love that this forum is full of kind, generous people to celebrate with.

If I notice a pattern of helpfulness, I find that even better....and simply very interesting! Especially if it's gentle, without the awful side effects of the heart meds.

If exploring the use of Arnica/homeopathy in general might turn out to be helpful to others, that would be great. Dealing with AF is so very tricky that I think it helps to learn as much as we all can.

I share in the spirit of "this has been helpful for me," and not "you should definitely do this!"

After facing the "medication police" at another forum, with their aggressive second-guessing and judgement about my medications (seriously, can you believe it?!), I feel even more strongly that one must respect that each person is different and may very well respond quite differently to various meds/supplements, etc. So I have the utmost respect for that individuality in treatment.

If you or anyone else feels inspired to explore trying Arnica, please connect with a skillful, experienced homeopath so that you can be guided by them. Please remember, too, that the main remedy I was given, after my homeopath had done extensive research, was Naja, which cleared out quite a lot in the Aggravation/Healing Crisis it triggered. While I was utterly miserable in the midst of it, she pointed out that this was actually a good sign that it was a good remedy for me. Just needed a little to clear out a lot. Arnica was suggested to settle things down after that clearing. So I'm guessing that the connection between the 2 remedies is significant, also.

If you or anyone is working with a homeopath and they'd like to speak to mine about this remedy and research, please message me and I'd be happy to put them in touch - but keep in mind that I'm in the US, not the UK.

Hope that helps!

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Hi Nella , I am very interested in hearing, what helps for every one . I am not necessarily going to change , definitely not on my own back , although I would just like to chuck the lot out of the window, and especially as I have just come back from seeing my cardiologist after my ablation 5 weeks ago , and basically telling me it hadn't work , great, so I now am just going to carry on and hope I can learn to live with this very annoying condition , I am very glad you have relief, long may it continue, always happy to hear about every bodies positive comments x x x

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Hi vernaloliver, I can so relate to what you shared about your cardiologist! I had an appointment this week and cried all the way home from the sheer frustration of the encounter. Like talking to a brick wall, wanted to put me on even more drugs, Flec all the time, so stupid, and wants me to have another ablation.

This is the guy who, a year ago, was so enthusiastic about me getting an ablation. I'd come so far, having a touch up means you'll very likely be cured!

This week he lectured me on "expectations." These procedures aren't guaranteed, blah, blah, blah. Which is true, but it's the condescending tone of it, as if I'm an idiot and, anyway, why did no one mention this at the outset?

Along with why did no one ever mention vagally-mediated AF? Why do they so irresponsibly tell patients that it's impossible to attribute episodes to anything at all, that it's entirely random? Why don't they mention anything at all about lifestyle changes that can help?

Even my most polite, tactful expression of versions of these concerns were either met with "spin" or dismissed. Yep, I've reached my limit on that.

Today I saw my acupuncturist and we went over my blood work and discussed AF treatment for an hour. Given my low platelet count (yep, aspirin! Going off it), he's concerned that having an ablation now could actually kill me.

I've had 2 cardios recently urging me to have another ablation and dismissing my reluctance and concerns. Would they even look at that blood work, I wonder?

Blood work also shows concerning levels of toxins in my kidneys, very likely from Flec. So we're doing a Kidney Detox with herbs.

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Hi Nella , when they give you all the percentages of everything , I havn't seen many people on here with a successful ablation , feel so disappointed , altho , I do think I have developed white coat syndrome, since all of this starting , 3 years ago , I was a registered nurse for nearly 40 years and seems very ridiculous, that I have an allergy towards anything medical , I was fine today on way to cardiologist as soon as had ecg , went straight into AF, think I need my brain looking at not my heart , trying to see some positives but not sure what they are at the moment x x good luck x x

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Are you in U.S. where Holistic is underappreciated? I see connections instinctively and this drives me up a wall. Alternative medicine is more common but rare is the MD in any specialty who will discuss the subject. Frustrating....? Law suits

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I'm in U.S. also...NYC, Queens. Where are you?

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Berkeley, CA, near San Francisco

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That's very interesting! Thank you for sharing,hope you stay steady ,and that teaching goes well.Flecanaide is such a strange drug...

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Thanks, wilsond! Teaching is going well, so grateful that Arnica helped me feel like my normal self. Then teaching is great fun. Students from 14 different countries all in the same room.

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Hi there

It's been really interesting reading the threads as I too find homeopathy very supportive at times. One thing I did notice , however Nella, is that like me, despite taking medication, you seem to be going in and out of AF...do you have PAF? If so, would you not consider an ablation?

Drugs did not agree with me and my quality of life and the success of an ablation has been amazing and I am ❤️ Drug free for the last two and a half years and counting which I imagine would suit you if possible?

I tried many homeopathic remedies for years to help with AF but for me, as the AF progressed, they did not sort the problem out long term unfortunately , although still extremely supportive to my system. (Particularly good for quick healing after ablation )

With good wishes and thank you for bringing different supportive remedies to the site)

Sarah

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Hi Sarah, I replied earlier, but somehow it didn't post.

I've had 2 ablations, last one didn't work. It would be dangerous for me now to have a third.

I'm doing all I can to minimize the drugs, which are both poisoning me and make me very depressed. I must be able to think straight to make good decisions. Working more with homeopathy and acupuncture. I may write another post on my acupuncture adventures. Interesting stuff!

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Oh I am sorry I didn't realise you had had ablations before Nella. I feel for you, as the drugs also made me feel absolutely rubbish and realised I was very depressed on them too afterwards. I tried acupuncture while still on the heart drugs ( before my ablation) so I would be really interested to see how you get on.

I know many people are sceptical, but the most successful thing for me post ablation, has been to see a qualified practicing herbalist . She only uses very gentle herbs, all very slow, but it has really helped to lower my blood pressure, (problem after ablation) , strengthen my thyroid (under active one discovered just before ablation) and balance my adrenal glands, ( was a teacher too, just hung up my whistle!) ) I am pretty sure for me, the wrong kind of stress has had an effect on my❤️ And AF symptoms too.

Stay well and keep us updated with your progress.

After all, all the complimentary remedies were around long time before the pharmaceutical drugs!

Best wishes

Sarah

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Thanks, Sarah! You are so kind. One thing I love about this forum is the Britishisms... :-) ..."feeling rubbish" captures it well. Do you also use "feel like crap"? That's one American way of describing the joys of side effects.

I know what you mean about certain kinds of stress triggering AF. I was so much better in the summer, but once I started having to commute 40 minutes to my college classes, which are big, I've had more episodes. I'm doing everything I can to lessen the stress, but do see the connection. It's an interesting challenge!

I'm so grateful for this forum. What a difference it makes to have this kind of support - the shared experiences, invaluable information, support, connection and kindness.

I'm going to write another post soon about my experiences with acupuncture. Yes, the herbs are amazing!! So powerful, yet gentle.

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Thanks for sharing Nella423, will have a look at Arnica and see how it works

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Happy you found it helpful. I hope you'll read the other replies, too, for suggestions about follow up.

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I take Arnica and use Arnica Cream for bruises but never noticed it helping AF. When I had my last prostate laser surgery I said to the nurse that I would be taking Arnica to reduce post op swelling of my urethra. She said not to as it is a 'blood thinner'

My wife mentioned to a dental nurse that she would be taking it after tooth extraction and was again told that it would encourage bleeding.

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Really don’t think so, not in homeopathic doses, but please correct me if there are any trained naturopaths out there who have specialist knowledge. Unless your nurses are trained homeopaths, most medics have no knowledge or training. Ask a pharmacist, preferably one that dispenses homeopathic substances, as the will have access to knowledge and databases.

This not something you take regularly.

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It surprised me that two said so. All part of the war against homeopathy.

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We used to get ours from a homeopathic pharmacy in Edinburgh. The owner was something like president of the homeopathy society so one felt she was reliable.

I went in for something one day and was served by her French assistant. She did not have any pre packed and said I will make some up for you. She took a bottle of blank tablets of a shelf and got a bottle of the tincture and put a few drops in it and banged it on the counter a few times. That's how they are prepared ! She said not to use them for a few hours until they dried out..

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Interesting!

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I found it surprising and don't see how each tablet got some of the remedy on it or the same amount.

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If you are interested in NAJA. The homeopathic pharmacy I buy from on line stock it.

homeoforce.co.uk/n-221-c.asp

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Surely a dilution of 30c ensures that none of the original compound remains so you should be able to take as much as you like in safety.

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My sense is that it's important to follow my homeopath's guidance. The bottle instructs a 5- pellet dose; she says that's marketing and that 2 is sufficient.

Also, it's not wise to take it every day, as I mentioned above, because the body will get used to it.

Having the guidance of the homeopath is quite important.

But compared to higher doses of Flec, which can end up actually causing AF and other nasty side effects, it's not at all like that, so I see what you're saying.

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The first homeopath I went to prescribed a one off powder that that was 1000c. plus some tablets of another remedy.

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I take the 200c remedies most of the time.

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Exactly

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Arnica is a very versatile item. My wife and I have used it prior and after surgeries to promote healing. Chalk up another alternative treatment that can be helpful.

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We take Aconite at the first sign of a cold and they are quickly stopped.

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What is aconite?

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It is a homeopathic remedy made from the plant Aconite. You can buy it at most UK pharmacies.

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Very very interesting post all

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May I ask you experienced weakness, feeling faint, sweating? With SVT those were my only symptoms.

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Do you mean symptoms when in AF?

My heart feels weakish, skittish at first. I can now identify a Flec-induced episode because it's more intense, heart beating more strongly. My episodes over time, when not aggravated by the occasional med mishap (like with steroids) have actually gotten lighter, easier to take. Sometimes at night, there may be some sweating before an episode.

Also, with a Flec episode, I can feel a veil of depression fall over me. It lifts after it clears out of my system.

Grateful to be feeling good now, though, and appreciate the conversation here with everyone.

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Yikes! I am so allergic to poison ivy, I look like a burn victim. So is this helpful or contraindicated?

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In gathering information about my experience to share with my doctors, I've noted 7 instances in which Arnica has stopped an episode. I take my Flec+Toprol PIP, wait 20 minutes, then take Arnica. The timeframe for the episodes stopping has been 2 to 20 minutes. The longest was 1.5 hrs; this was after a sleepless night, waking in AF, & having a bit more stress in that I needed to decide if I could teach or not. I decided not to and the episode stopped immediately....go figure.

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