Covid Jab - ending my previous comment on a posting a few weeks back, I promised I’d let the forum know how my jab went…….

[Speed]

Firstly, let me state that a one off result is not significantly relevant and so please don’t draw any definitive conclusions from my personal experience.

To compound the above, my circumstances are not straight forward and there are lots of variables that could impact instances of me either having or not having an episode of AF.

So, some background: I previously had A Flutter, probably as a result of a period of endurance training and an underlying propensity as both my parents had AF. This was resolved after a 2nd ablation 2 yrs ago. Then came AF which recently has been almost exclusively triggered during running, if I let my HR get over 140. My EP believes it is emanating from the pulmonary vein and he is confident he can zap it with another ablation (or 2 if stubborn). I take 50 mg Flecainide BiD (twice daily) but after consultation with my EP, dropped the Beta Blockers recommended with it as they made running absolutely missable and soul destroying.

So over the last few weeks, I’ve had AF each Sat morning part way (30 to 40 mins in) on my long run with the club - it’s so hard to run slower than your natural pace and a slight hill is enough to make my HR spike. Normal routine is to stop running (I’m pretty asymptomatic and only know I’m in AF as my Garmin shows my HR has spiked to 215), walk home, take 2 x 50 mg Flec PIP and await NSR - normally with 5-6 hrs. Once it did revert on the walk home, only to come back of it’s own accord later that day. So, to some extent it’s largely predictable.

This morning (Sat), usual run but with a slower group and slower pace (ave HR 126, max 140) 8 miles no AF. An hour after, and skipping breakfast, had Covid + Flu jab, went home and then had breakfast, including 50:50 decaf / full caf coffee ( I just can’t do the full decaf - no flavour). Added complication, with the change in routine, I inadvertently forgot to take my morning 50mg Flec

It gets to 5:00pm and I realise I’m in AF. I’m generally asymptomatic and have no idea when it started. 100mg of Flec and 3 hrs later I’m back in NSR.

So, read into that what you will. Unfortunately so many variables that there’s no clear cause / effect. I’ve had 3 Covid jabs before and none of them resulted in unusual AF episodes. Was this episode as a result of mornings run / not taking my morning Flecainide / the sneaky coffee or even the Covid jab / Flu jab or maybe the cumulative effect of many / some smaller contributors? Would I have avoided an episode if I had not had the jab? I’m certainly none the wiser and have not been put off future jabs. Though maybe next time I’ll try to reduce the variables and see what happens….

[Hidden]

Thank you for such a detailed and informative post! If the other members would contribute in similar way, it would be very useful for all of us here!

I hope you will not mind if I try to give you back useful information, what I have learned exactly from other peoples' posts... There are people that have received 5 jabs without any bad effect, but there are such ones who have received one, and have died right after that. How is it possible? A guy, from USA, was researching, after he was hurt, allegedly by the jab, and has found that only about 15% of the jabs were producing problems, depending of the batch. Who has had the luck to receive 5, without any bad effect, has only had 5 which were not from the bad batch. Is it the reason that, for the first time in history, the jabs are given up to number8 or 9 (7x15%=105%, so already enough, lol)?

With the best of intention, stop running completely and think twice before rolling the sleeve next time. As for the running, all the sportsmen that had died in the playing field (before the jabs were rolled out, there were 3-4 such cases a year, after, we have 300-400 a year) were in a bodily condition you are in, when running. It's never too early to stop running, it can only be too late! Hope you see it, before it gets removed...

[JudiHalf in reply to Hidden]

People die after tripping up in the street and falling over, should people never go out? Mind you people also die after falling in their homes, so maybe they should not go home? You write absolute rubbish!

I had flu and Covid jabs at the same time a couple of weeks ago and I’m still breathing, no side effects apart from sore arms which is to be expected.

[Hidden in reply to JudiHalf]

Sorry to say so, but an absolute rubbish is what you have written. What I have written is true and the best advise I can give!

[JudiHalf in reply to Hidden]

You wrote last weekend that the Covid jab causes cancer, no wonder your posts get removed! Why you are not banned is a mystery to me, I note you only write your ridiculous posts at the weekend when admin are not around.

[Hidden in reply to JudiHalf]

Jesus, I believed that nobody will understand what you have understood! I am trolling here, persuading the people to harm themselves. Just go for another booster!

[Jajarunner in reply to Hidden]

Just did. Thank you NHS

[Rhea11 in reply to Hidden]

Nesko, you are absolutely right. Wish more people would 'see' it. Thank you.

[Tomred in reply to JudiHalf]

HI judy not everyone has your experience, unfortunatly.

[Hidden in reply to JudiHalf]

Well it’s good to know you are okay… unfortunately some people are not… and questions need to be asked to find out why some people are having “events” around the time they are having jabs.

If one electric car out of every hundred blew up after turning a key … do you think Tesla would want to know why?… the same should go for anything else out of the ordinary … the number of athletes now affected are higher than the average… it’s reasonable to investigate this .. it’s not reasonable to sweep it away as normal…

Be well.

[Elli86 in reply to Hidden]

Jomico you should know by now that logical questions are off limits 🤐

[Hidden in reply to Elli86]

Not here to ruffle feathers... trying to keep people's mInds from being closed.. we need to question everything... about everything .. once critical thinking goes ... we become sheep.

[Elli86 in reply to Hidden]

critical thinking is outlawed. Come and be a sheep it’s much easier 🐑

[Hidden in reply to Elli86]

Baah!... whats for tea Ma?... lets have grass for change!

[Elli86 in reply to Hidden]

😜

[JOY2THEWORLD49]

Hi

Interesting!

I would never have two different jabs. With AF one jab is enough.

Did you hydrate before and after - I find bits of banana are good with water.

Perhaps next time have it at a resting time. Forget the run that day.

Just suggestions.

cheri JOY 74 (NZ)

[Ppiman]

I suspect the jab can, very occasionally, affect other issues that are immune / inflammatory system related, and in ways that might bring on AF. But covid itself is by any measure vastly worse in this same respect. On balance, we've decided to have the next booster as covid is once again common in our local area.

Steve

[Silky57 in reply to Ppiman]

If Covid is worse in this same respect, but the jab doesn’t stop you from getting Covid, then isn’t the jab an incremental risk rather than a diminishing one?

[Ppiman in reply to Silky57]

That sounds logical enough but I gather it’s not the case. There’s been a recent large study done somewhere in Europe (I’ve forgotten) that showed the booster worked quite well to reduce infection rate (not stop it) but was completely effective at preventing the disease becoming generalised and serious.

I wish it were clearer just what benefits it does offer though, but there we are. I know three vaccinated people who have become ill with “long” covid, too - but all were also significantly overweight, which seems to be an accepted thing now with the illness.

Steve

[Tapanac]

First in my opinion even though you love running, couldn’t you slow down or walk fast. Is it worth keep aggravating your heart

Secondly the last two covid jabs I’ve had left me with 5 weeks afib/tachycardia which started hours after each jab. Reluctantly I’ve decided no more covid jabs for me (I think) as now recently I just had a pacemaker implanted and that took a couple of weeks to settle as my heart obviously didn’t like being messed with snd the afib/tachy was fighting it so I was told. . It’s great now so don’t want to chance another episode of what happened before with the covid jabs

This is just me so I wouldn’t advise or guess what is causing your attacks

Good luck x

[Vonnegut]

You didn’t take your morning pill!

[Desanthony]

Thanks for that. Pleased to hear you went back into NSR. I know how hard it is to do things at a slower pace - I don't have a slower pace! Good Luck

[Sixtyslidogirl]

I sympathise with slower running. I too try to keep my pace down to one that doesn’t trigger AF, or too many ectopics. I took up weight training but the effort involved seems to trigger ectopics . Arggg. Anyway, I digress. My latest AF episode was I think a ‘last straw’ event. I had quite a busy day exercise wise and picked up a flu vaccine on the way home, thinking nothing of it. Went for a run. Fine. Got changed, boom, AF for the next 10 hours, though not as bad as some episodes I have had. Took flecanide, apixaban, bisoprolol as PIP. Funnily enough, I felt great the next day and continue to do so. Mystery.

[Jajarunner]

I had afib after my first Covid jab but not after second, third or fourth (latter this week). I've also just had my 9th annual flu jab of which only no. 6 gave me afib. I'm guessing that, for me, that tells you more about the state of my afib attacks. at various times than about the jabs.

[HiloHairy]

We're all so different. I had a fib for years. Usually hitting me once every six or seven weeks for no discernible reason.

I've had the first three covid shots. The first one put me into the worst. A fib event I'd ever had. The second one was worse. I had the third one only because my cardiologist insisted on it. It put me into permanent afib until I had an ablation which seems to have cured it completely. I'm very frightened about having the latest COVID injection.

[JerrysGirl3]

Just out of curiosity, I've been tested for afib because I had one instance but nothing on a month of monitoring but did not have it, why you continue pushing your heart into afib ?

[Speed in reply to JerrysGirl3]

My focus is on quality of life (QOL). I’m only 58.

I’m fortunate in that when in AF, it’s not debilitating, more of an inconvenience though I do have to avoid anything too intensive. My episodes are usually relatively short, 6 to 12 hours and are usually stopped through PIP medication. I’ve never needed to be Cardioverted nor have had an A&E admission. Being in AF rarely results in death.

Going into AF then is not in itself a big issue. Rather the risks are in the longer term consequences of multiple episodes: multiple episodes worsening the frequency, lowering the trigger threshold and / or lengthening the episodes; enlarged heart (already have) increasing the risk of heart failure,

My EP believes he can resolve through an ablation but we held off for a while to see how things settled and at a time when episodes were less frequent. On my last consultation he agreed to put me in for one with an estimate of 9 mths (7 to go). We agreed I can forego if things improved (I can manage down to minimal episodes). Further, he has emphasised the importance of exercise in maintaining the health of the heart, the worst thing to do would be to become sedentary, that’s guaranteed to nit only shorten your life, but the quality of it too. Healthspan not lifespan.

I had a quick look at your bio and appreciate that you have been through the wars and so would likely avoid any risk of a further medical problem. I however am probably more of a risk taker.

For me it’s a balance between the risk from ongoing episodes (low for me) and doing things I enjoy and which will improve my QOL.

Hence I keep running with my friends - socialising is important too.

I hope that helps explain my thinking.

[JerrysGirl3 in reply to Speed]

It does, thank you

[Dodie117]

I just had pneumonia jab last week. Bad reaction and two episodes of af in the next week. Does this mean I shouldn’t have pneumonia jab. I think not.

All fine now and hopefully extra protection going forward.

[Bagrat]

If only risk benefit was straightforward. I have had flu jab for at least 30 years ( HCP then retired) no issue of which I'm aware before orafter AF diagnosis.5 of the latest pandemic jabs no observable probs. Husband had his 6th last week and needed an afternoon in bed just fatigue and general offcolour ( he has perm af, a minor issue on his heart list!)

I have been reading too much and generally umming and ahing but have now booked a covid on Friday, although I'll never know if it was a good decision.