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AF Association
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Kardia Mobile by AliveCor

What do you make of this exchange of emails?

Me to AliveCor - My arm band with monitor reads 82bpm; my finger device reads 71bpm; and the Kardia mobile app reads 123bpm - all within a minute or two of each other. My husband's HR reading in the 60s reads the same on all

3 devices.

AliveCor to me - The app is only validated between 50 and 100 beats per min so this could be a reason for this?

Me to AliveCor - Are you saying that anyone with a heart rate over 100 bpm shouldn't be using the Kardia mobile app?

AliveCor Customer Services

- Yes that is correct.

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Likely the AliveCor is the correct. Optical detectors can underestimate HR, especially in arrhythmias.

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Thanks for responding. Maybe I should have mentioned that the Kardia app reads 'possible AF' every time. Not sure what an 'optical detector' is?

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The finger pulse and arm band monitors work with optical detectors. You can see the twinkling LEDs on the inner surface which contacts your skin.

Kardia:

This is regulatory problem. Certified medical devices should not give diagnosis. It is supposed, that you will show the record to a cardiologist for professional diagnosis.

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I find my Fitbit overestimates my pulse, compared to me checking it manually or the AliveCor. The Fitbit seems to jump up in HR with every palpitations, sometimes recording 150bpms when my finger/AliveCor thinks it's around 90 (e.g. when walking).

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I would trust the Kardia as I've found the finger pulse monitor cannot distinguish beats accurately when AF is present.

The answer that Kardia shouldn't be used for heart monitoring over 100bpm is strange, since most AF gives rates well beyond that!

All my traces over 100 are marked as 'unclassified' but my medics were able to diagnose various problems - including AF from my printouts. Some of this was done before AliveCor gave diagnoses too, so it is worthwhile recording your heart's antics.

Perhaps your correspondent meant to say that outside the 50 to 100 Kardia will not be able to suggest a possible diagnosis?

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Few devoices other than Kardia can accurately count heart beats when in AF. Don't waste your time with them. Only Kardia. By the way I have no connection with Kardia and in fact often oppose their use due to the risk of becoming obsessed with them rather than trying to get n with life.

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Just got our new Kardia today but first thing I noticed on the information which wasn't available before we bought, was that it should not be used with a pacemaker. Tried it anyway but as husband has ventricular tachycardia it is outside the device's parameters and will not record!

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The kardia should be correct on pulse. It just does not guarantee the built in detection of afib outside of those pulse ranges. Though you can still see the ekg and diagnose it yourself or have your doctor look at the output.

Basically pulse and ekg output are fine. Just the built in diagnostics are not guaranteed outside the pulse range.

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Thanks for all your helpful replies. Think I will go down the road of sending some Kardia results to my consultant and see what he says. Will keep you posted.

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I have had several AF diagnoses on my Kardia with a BPM well over 100, the highest at 178!

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As others have said, the Kardia is measuring the heart activity, while the others are counting the changing redness of your skin with the surges of blood. When in AF the blood doesn't surge as it should and can't be counted accurately.

No doubt the response from AliveCor is a legal nicety. I would trust the Kardia.

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That is not correct and I invented it. Can you show some of the trace please. The AliveCor works with heart rates up to 300 beats per minute (actually higher).

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Hi drdave I find if I have a he over 100 then my kardia will always say unclassified...

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Not sure how to show some of the trace?

Your confirmation that 'the AliveCor works with heart rates up to 300bpm' is very interesting given my response from AliveCor Customer Services that 'anyone with a heart rate over 100 bpm shouldn't be using the AliveCor device'.

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That is simply not correct. Tens of thousands of patients use AliveCor with heart rates WAY over 100 bpm almost every day. Please feel fee to pass my comment on to the "customer service" you mention. They can reach me at drdave@alivecor.com

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Thank you very much DrDave01. I will pass your comment on to AliveCor Customer Service and let you know their response.

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Have AliveCor Customer Services contacted you yet, Dr Dave?

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That is correct unless you are in AFib. Heart rates over 100 are “defined” as Tachycardia. You may have exercised or be upset which raise heart rate normallly or it may be abnormal. You can then decide if it’s not appropriate and share with your physician. We’re not going to call it “normal” or “abnormal” as we do not have the context. I hope this helps.

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Thank you for the clarification DrDave - I was hoping you would see the question!

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You are very welcome and I hope anyone with an AliveCor question here will feel free to ask me. I read this site every day (when I can).:)

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Dr Dave Why does it say in the instructions that Alivecor should not be used with a pacemaker? Will it not read properly?

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It is safe to use AliveCor with a pacemaker but it cannot assess the function of the pacemaker as there are specific requirements for that. Also, Our algorithms may be impacted by the pacemaker artifacts.

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Thank you for your swift reply, I'm glad that it is still safe to use but I think you are saying that it may not give an accurate reading.

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The ecg will be accurate but our algorithms were not designed to interpret the pacemaker artifacts.

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The recorded trace is accurate and could be interpreted by a physician but the algorithmic interpretation might not be correct. I hope that helps.

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I will relay your response to our doctor who no doubt will understand better than I do! Many thanks for your replies.

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DrDave01 -

As mentioned at the beginnning of this thread, my recordings ranging from 92 - 145bpm all say 'Possible AF'. In the Journal, it says 'AFib' for every reading.

Will wait to hear how I can show you some of the trace'.

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My only AF episode, mine and a& e's finger probe read 53 HR. The ECG read 162. The finger probes clearly don't pick up abnormal rhythms

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I would trust the Kardia also. I love mine and always been spot on when in AF. My Fitbit only detects the regular beats not the extra ones when in AF.

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Hi, had one of these a few days now how legible are they to uk doctors please. if I take it to my gp do you think It will be taken seriously? I have readings flitting between the 30's & 190's =/ but it sort of feels like a toy =/ not sure if I've wasted my money or not.

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