How many are aware that radiation of the prostate & area will create a likelihood that future cancer will occur in the rectum, bladder and other area as far away as lungs. It's on the nih.gov site. It also says patients should be made aware of this. But no one told me or my husband. BTW. He is on his 2nd month of repurposed drugs, vitamins, metabolic diet and all of his PC symptoms have disappeared. No surgery, no radiation.
PC & RADIATION : How many are aware... - Advanced Prostate...
PC & RADIATION
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Huskymomof4
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If it's right there "on the NIH website", please share the link.
Here is a screenshot
Nih
Thanks. It would have been nice if you had actually shared the URL. So I looked it up:
Cancer incidence after localized therapy for prostate cancer
acsjournals.onlinelibrary.w...
The article is from way back in 2006 and features a summary analysis of data up to 1999. Given that radiation practices have improved enormously since 25 years ago, it would be fair to say that this information is more or less irrelevant.
Oh, and from the final paragraph of the article you quoted: "In conclusion, the current results suggest that the incidence of second malignancy after prostate therapy is low." Which is the opposite of what you claimed 💥
The other thing to note concerning the article is that the word "metastatic" does not appear in the text of the article. The article is talking about effects of radiation 10 years out, which isn't very helpful for people with metastatic prostate cancer for whom a median 5-year life expectancy is considered a huge success.
I am myself concerned about radiation for imaging especially CTs. Because in the beginning, when my life was expectancy was a year-and-a-half, my dosage of imaging radiation didn't really matter and we needed to know what was going on. But now with my doublet hormone therapy (enhanced at the beginning with Docetaxel) I'm doing well! And so now the accumulating diagnostic radiation doses are something I need to think about.
Anyway back to your post. You have not provided any bio. And your husband apparently is following a regime consisting of "repurposed drugs, vitamins, metabolic diet and all of his PC symptoms have disappeared. No surgery, no radiation." I'm assuming from this that your husband is not on any standard researched therapy for his prostate cancer. ("Repurposed drugs" sounds like Ivermectin etc...)
Because you are posting on the Advanced Prostate Cancer forum, it's reasonable to assume that, unfortunately and sadly, that your husband is afflicted with metastatic prostate cancer. We sincerely wish him the best of success for many years ahead with good quality of life.
But many people read this forum, even if they don't necessarily participate with posts and replies. And they rely on this forum for good ideas on therapy. So it's upsetting that your post sort of legitimizes quackery, which can only lead to the saddest of places. And not only that, your initial statement about radiation risk is, per my notes above, just plain wrong on the face of it.
P.S. (added later) - There is of course risk associated with therapeutic radiation for prostate cancer or metastatic prostate cancer. Specific and immediate risks regarding radiation therapy seem to be mostly related to damage to healthy flesh and organs, adjacent to the tumor targets. What about the other risk of secondary cancers caused by radiation therapy, even years later? I asked ChatGPT the question and here's a good reference from 2022. The short answer is that the long-term risk associated with therapeutic radiation for prostate cancer seems to be low, as in about 3%.
jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...
Thank-you for this. As you said a lot of people utilize this site, and putting in misleading or inaccurate information is a disservice to those who are facing anxiety and uncertainty.
As you pointed out the technologies in accuracy and effectiveness have improved significantly in a relatively short time frame.
John that is an excellent written and well presented response. Thanks.
Agreed
Thank you for taking the time to respond so fully to this misleading post. It's scary to think of people taking decisions based on such posts. Of course we need to be well informed of the potential downside to treatments but It needs to be in context. It made me very uneasy reading the original post but I'm not in a good place to construct the measured response you have made. One wonders what the motivation for these kinds of posts is - or perhaps it's just confusion or fear. It's why I don't do Facebook etc.! Anyhow well done for putting things in context. Thanks.
Heads up for anyone interested in the risk of secondary cancer from therapeutic radiation, I've added a recent PS note and journal reference to the end of the reply above.
That says after 10 years, 1 in 70 who had radiation will develop a secondary cancer. But without the radiation, they would not have made it to 10 years. I'll take the odds.
Well said!
Thank you for this information. I'm in "active surveillance" after a strong sell job from a radiologist.
The radiation can also cause myelodysplastic syndromes, a bone marrow type cancer which cause a variety of blood disorders. Rare, but there.
I'm sure we're all aware of it. Our doctors told us. But you're talking something like 10% occurrence as opposed to our original (not good) diagnosis. I made an informed decision.
Well....not all of us were made aware of it as you imply. An informed decision should be made on all risks. Thank you for being so supportive.
Thanks for posting this but without reading the whole original discussion you can hopefully understand that there will be some second thoughts on it. Please do not be offended. This issue gets brought up periodically on the forum.
In a perfect world all decisions would be informed but unfortunately I do not live there. Our doctors and us do the best we can and in fact our personal due diligence is also required. We are all human.
In fairness once you need some form of radiation the options are limited and the radiation side effects are rather small when compared to letting the cancer progress or doing nothing.
Sure you could select another possibility like seeds that are mentioned but at least in my experience this may not be an option for many due to availability. For example at my regional hospital that was not an option. Not everyone can afford or have access to a center of excellence, etc.
Are you experiencing secondary cancers from the radiation?
No....this is all new to us. Diagnosed end of January. We are choosing repurposed drugs instead of surgery or radiation and the cancer is shrinking based on all symptoms going away. Just gathering as much information as possible at this time. Thank you.
May I ask please what are the information sources that you have found helpful and which you trust. Thank you.
What basis is there for the claim that "cancer is shrinking'? Does your husband get PSMA/PET CT scans regularly? Or is it just that his PSA is going down? (Is it "undetectable"?) The Hydra toys with some who see apparent PSA drops with alt/no treatment -- lucky them (maybe), but this site is filled with older posts by such people who are no longer with us. Their account name becomes "hidden", and I once asked Darryl what that might mean -- most often goners.
Man this is heartbreaking. And I appreciate very much Derf you having shared your conversation with Darryl. So on a slightly different topic for this thread then: the whole topic of "memorialization".
It's a huge topic, so I won't touch on what happens after one gets the tap on the shoulder to Facebook or LinkedIn profiles, or shoe boxes filled with unlabeled old black and white photos that no one put in a photo book, or 20,000 pictures on a loved one's phone ... (although I think that AIs are already showing up that can help with that). One thing though I find especially troublesome is obituaries posted on funeral home sites, with expiry dates, unless someone funds more time. The cost of maintaining the typical modest obituary and a few dozen comments and maybe a few pictures is probably pennies a year.
The idea that people we may have interacted on the forum here, that they just fade away, is inevitable but still sad. It's true of course that due to the limitations of the HealthUnlocked interface that our interactions here are mostly sort of at arm's length. Even the private chats are very ephemeral. And great posts from a year or two ago kind of just sit there gathering dust, unless someone reposts them. I suppose we all just consider that the purpose of this MaleCare Advanced Prostate Cancer forum has a narrow purpose concerning good up-to-date information on our topic, and especially helpful when faced with doctors and decisions -- but that is not so much about friendship. We hope that participants here have some measure of family and friendship where they find themselves.
So anyway Derf, your note triggered some affect with me. As for your original serious comment, I will say that the OP, if they are sincere and I'm not convinced they are, is likely rolling a set of fixed dice that always comes up snake eyes. Heaven forfend.
Huskymomof44 Sounds like you should educate yourself , I suggest you purchase Dr. Patrick Walsh's book : Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer Edition 5 -- The best money you will ever spend . Additionally watch the U-Tube series on Prostate Cancer by Dr. Mark Scholz . Become you own best health advocate and make " Educated Prostate CancerDecisions" .
Good luck .
I was diagnosed with intermediate grade PC, Gleason 3+4 in 2021. Radiologist at the time said I would have no symptoms from the cancer for 5 to 10 years WITHOUT treatment. I wonder like others here what you are calling cancer symptoms. Although I opted for a different RT, Proton Beam Radiation has the distinct claim of the radiation not passing through the body or to surrounding areas. It stops at the target. Good Luck.
(Reply to JP Burns above) The good news is that apparently, per the recent reference I've just now added to my reply above, that the risk of secondary cancer from therapeutic radiation in circumstances of prostate cancer, is something like 3%, and that's maybe out at 10 years.
Of course the risk of damage by therapeutic radiation to adjacent organs is a separate and very serious question.
Also, in my own case I'm personally concerned about risks associated with diagnostic radiation. In the beginning after a frightening diagnosis, one isn't likely worried too much. Understanding the situation is the key. But as one lives longer, the cumulative doses of diagnostic radiation may be something to understand.
I like those numbers more. Thanks.
Me too! 😃
Just so you are aware you should probably be posting in the regular prostrate forum and not the Advanced Forum. When you begin your post it will ask you which one you want to post to. You can choose.
The majority in this Advanced forum are men and families of guys who have spread of the cancer outside of the prostate and are not in the initial phases of being diagnosed.
It will also help people respond with more pertinent and specific comments if you complete your husband’s diagnosis history in his profile.
In addition there is a forum for active surveillance which is designed for men and families who are not in active treatment like ADT, radiation, etc. Reading your initial post that sounds like that fits your husband since he is not under any care at this time of a doctor but is doing a self administered therapy.
Hope this helps understand the different forums.
Hi Mgtd, I've only ever posted on this forum because of the high 4+4 DX. The PSMA scan showed "no mets" but as we all know, they are not 100% correct and the amount of people that had the same initial results, ended up with mets down the track, despite their treatment.
So for me, I'd rather be a step ahead of the game and join in with the men folk on this forum just to be prepared. As they say, to be forewarned is to be forearmed. I'm pretty certain there are others on this forum like me.
we were not made aware that radiation for PC could result in secondary cancers. In my husband's case ureter cancer was the cause of his death. Patients should be made aware of this potential when exploring treatments.
I would not conclude that ureter cancer is caused by radiation treatment to the prostate. Radiology team is quite careful to limit the radiation dose to the prostate area, and the ureter is some distance from the prostate. I can understand the rectum and bladder, but even there, I suspect that biopsy might be a cause, moreso than radiation. Just my opinion. I am not a doctor.
I was fortunate to land at the best and most straight forward pc oncologist in SA. He told me upfront the danger of external beam radiation. We discussed the pro's and cons and I said yes for this dangerous road. Bear in mind I have tubular prostate cancer. Short and aggressive. That was in 2018. I am very grateful that I have lived so long. At the moment I am very healthy, no mets , no tumors. And I also believe in ; do something from your side. I drink a lot of essential oils, Ivermectin and good food.
Huskymom,I knew there was a chance I might develop secondary cancer after pelvic radiation for prostate cancer. Sure enough, I developed bladder cancer 12 years later and am now being treated for that. My Uro said that the incidence of secondary cancer from radiation is higher than anyone thought.
I had to laugh when I read your comment not at what you said but at my own situation. At 80 if I could get 12 years I would be 92. Do I really want to live that long?
Second thing that gave me a chuckle was that statement coming from a Urologist would almost be expected. In the 12 years since your radiation there has been a huge change in how radiation is delivered and accuracy of radiation delivery.
You made the best choice 12 years ago for your situation. No need to look backwards. It is done.
Wish you the best moving forward with your new cancer and hope you get another 12 years from that treatment.
Dies your husband have advanced PCa? Usually this approach synergies with conventional treatments. Alternative therapies although can be helpful but in my husband's case were not enough for his gleason 9 mets to retroperitoneal lymph nodes dx. Glad your husband is responding. Aa far as radiation causing secondary malignancies it depends on several factors and usually doesn't show up for 10 years if it does at all. Still it's very low. I read somewhere that for BRCA 2 germline mutations that they don't recommend radiation because of a secondary risk of breast cancer. But that is something that needs to be discussed with a MO.
Wishing you and your husband the best through this journey.
Hey and it's factual radiation and chemo have 75%-90% mortality rate because it irradiated good and mutated cells, so depending on if your metabolic recovery is fast enough to put pace c cell proliferation, they know this and do tell patients most times not in a way they understand. Goodfor u with the mineral and vitamin balance, that is key.
well likelyhood might be a poor choice of words here as the risk is pretty small actually but it is there. Now just so you know, I am not against lifestyle changes or repurposed drugs because I rode that train for more than twenty years but know this, just when your alternative treatments look like you are working this beast will come at you with a vengence. In the pic you will see my psa climb to 700 then drop to 600, then drop to 300 and by now even my uro thought I was on to something. Well a picture is worth a thousand words. Tread very carefully. God bless!
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I agree , My doctor never told me when I passed on the chemo .... for now. I am doing the same as you . Private message me if you want to compare treatment protocols.
I’m not admitting to cancers from prostate radiation but the repercussions from radiation long term. This was never explained to me years ago.
Radiation works by targeting cancer cells in the prostate, but it can also affect nearby healthy tissues, such as the rectum and bladder, leading to chronic issues. For bowel-related symptoms like the constant urge to defecate, this is often tied to radiation proctitis—a condition where the rectal lining becomes inflamed or damaged due to radiation exposure. Over time, this can cause scarring, reduced rectal elasticity, or nerve sensitivity, leading to urgency, discomfort, or even irregular bowel habits years later. Studies suggest that 5-20% of men experience some form of persistent bowel dysfunction post-radiation, depending on the dosage and technique used (e.g., external beam radiation vs. brachytherapy).
Painful urination, on the other hand, could stem from radiation cystitis, where the bladder lining is irritated or scarred. This can lead to symptoms like burning, stinging, or aching during urination, sometimes persisting long-term due to chronic inflammation or fibrosis. Urethral strictures—narrowing of the urethra from scar tissue—are another possible cause, reported in 2-10% of patients years after treatment. These effects can be influenced by factors like radiation dose, the specific area treated, and individual healing capacity.
Long-term data (e.g., from prostate cancer survivor studies) shows that while many side effects peak within the first 1-2 years and then improve, a subset of patients deal with delayed or progressive symptoms 5, 10, or even 15 years post-treatment. For example, bowel and urinary issues can worsen if fibrosis progresses or if secondary conditions (like infections or vascular changes) develop. Management might involve dietary adjustments, pelvic floor therapy, medications (e.g., anti-inflammatories or antispasmodics), or, in severe cases, procedures like laser therapy for strictures.
Bottom line for me, and for most of the guys here is that the benefits far, far, outweigh any risk.
Useful reading:
jamanetwork.com/journals/ja... >
“The present cohort study’s results suggest that IMRT for prostate cancer is not associated with an increased risk of second solid or hematologic cancers. “
med.stanford.edu/news/all-n... >
"Although radiation patients technically have a higher risk of a second malignancy, the absolute risk is actually quite low," she said. "I'm hoping that this helps dispel the myth that radiation is likely to cause cancer."
Rectal spacing techniques (e.g., Barrigel) and precision radiation can reduce rectal exposure and complications. See: barrigel.com/radiation-side...
Note Re Barrigel: Clearly the above involves marketing. I have compared SpaceOAR ( = Space for Organ at Risk) to Barrigel. IMO, either beats nothing. SOC (Standard of Care) is such (IMO) that for most (if not all) Radiation therapy to the Prostate needs a barrier. If you will have IMRT GET A BARRIER! (I don't know about other radiation therapy).
I think that the Barrigel beats SpaceOAR because SpaceOAR appears to often be placed without the precision of Barrigel because it’s not as “moldable.” Imagine sitting on a hot seat with a cushion. If the cushion is 1” on one side, and 4” on the other side, expect a burned bum.
Well, the same will hold true with a spacer. Symmetry is important. And it appears that Barrigel can create a "balanced cushion," whereas SpaceOAR might not be symetrically placed between the prostate and the organs at risk.
SpaceOAR is older technology, Barrigel is newer. In my state I can find a SpaceOAR doc, but not a Barrigel doc. So, I will travel to Boston (2 hours). As always, ask your Practitioner, not some loud-mouthed KIA on the Inet.
Where did you hear this garbage? That is absolutely untrue. It's sad that you had a bad experience but that does not mean that your situation is normal far from that. Please stop spreading on truths.
Some men are unable to get the surgery. { Or choose not to do so) My husband's prostate was very large and at his age, surgery was not an option. The radiation was given along with ADT. Thankfully, he seems to be doing OK although will need scans and blood tests for the rest of his life.
Radiation exposure does predispose one to an increased cancer risk to the exposed tissues. That risk, being small (~2%), is outweighed by the benefit. It is something to keep in mind. Get regular colonoscopies, see your doctor for any blood in your urine/stool. The scans also increase radiation exposure but that is relatively small. Bottom line, get regular check ups, stay in touch with your oncologist.
