Anyone Gotten Expert Advice on Melato... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Anyone Gotten Expert Advice on Melatonin?

jazj profile image
jazj
35 Replies

There's studies showing evidence Melatonin has anti PCa properties. But evidence seems limited/inconsistent, especially regarding dosage. I know it's been talked about it here multiple times. Sans regurgitating the studies, I'm wondering if anyone in recent years has brought this up with any leading Oncologist and what they had to say about it? Or if anyone taking it has a high level of confidence it has made a difference?

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jazj
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35 Replies
KocoPr profile image
KocoPr

i was taking hi doses for a short time but it stopped working when i needed to fall asleep.

I just ordered 3mg liquid fast acting just to put me to sleep.

So the more i used it the less it worked for sleep aid. As far as fighting cancer goes who knows if it works.

I would study the long term side effects and mechanisms of action as i think if i remember right it can cause a lot of oxidation.

My two cents

wat380bjw profile image
wat380bjw in reply toKocoPr

I have heard if it stops working, stop taking it for a few weeks. When you restart it will work again.

KocoPr profile image
KocoPr in reply towat380bjw

Yes that does work

Niso profile image
Niso

I'm taking high dose melatonin for few years now 360-420 mg a day. 60 mg ×3/4 during the day and 180 mg 2 hours before bed time.

Never met an oncologist that was interested or knowledgeable about melatonin.

Tinkudi profile image
Tinkudi in reply toNiso

How did you decide on those doses

Niso profile image
Niso in reply toTinkudi

youtu.be/Roh4lQXneQg?si=Ok-...

carguy profile image
carguy in reply toNiso

Very interesting. Thanks for sending!

Rolphs profile image
Rolphs in reply toNiso

I take melatonin and think everyone who has PCa should also if they can. Unfortunately, Dr. Shallenberger from this video has a questionable record and actually lost his medical license in California faculty.uml.edu/sgallagher/.... He then moved to Nevada where he gets mixed reviews. I really want to trust this guy but I can't overlook his shady history.

Niso profile image
Niso in reply toRolphs

U can find a lot of information on pubmed, here is onepmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articl...

jazj profile image
jazj in reply toNiso

Ya I know. There's very limited evidence involving human clinical trials. That's why I'm asking for anecdotal reports of people actually trying it or that discussed it with their Oncologist.

I've yet to see any anecdotal reports that anyone was confidence that taking melatonin had a very significant effect on slowing cancer progression. Most seem to be taking it for other reasons and crossing their fingers it makes a difference with disease progression.

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa in reply toNiso

Any results in your prostate cancer?

Niso profile image
Niso in reply todhccpa

Well can't say for sure, I was stable for few years.

KocoPr profile image
KocoPr in reply toNiso

And you never will

michaelpenny111 profile image
michaelpenny111

I don't know of any scientific evidence of Melatonin. I have been taking it for years at moderate doses. I do feel strongly that sleep is the best medicine--best for the immune system and overall health. I never had trouble falling asleep. I had trouble staying asleep. So I take melatonin (3 - 6 mg) and trazodone (15 mg) when I wake up at 2 or 3 and I usually fall back asleep.

Quite honestly I felt like--if prostate cancer is going to take me--I want to feel as good as possible until it does. And that means feeling rested and renewed when I wake up. That's why I supplement with melatonin and trazodone. It certainly will not hasten my death--and if it helps me feel more fully alive while I'm here--why not?

MrG68 profile image
MrG68 in reply tomichaelpenny111

Maybe you could consider restricting the amount of blue light you get. Blue light tricks your brain into thinking that its noon and disrupts your circadian rhythm.

This frequency of light is emitted from things like electronic screens, led bulbs and artifical light in general. Windows allow blue light to pass and block out the other frequencies. So outdoors is better than indoors.

You can also buy blue light blocking glasses, and use blue light removal software on p.c.s.

jazj profile image
jazj in reply tomichaelpenny111

All the studies I believe involving prostate cancer are in vitro or in vivo (mice). I don't think there are any human clinical studies. The only one I could find involves a very small cohort of patients with various other cancers. Based on this study, it may have benefit but is no silver bullet. Anything that may potentially slow progression is worth considering I think.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/891...

KocoPr profile image
KocoPr in reply tojazj

You can go broke with all the supplements that supposedly slows progression in vitro and mice, and tax your liver and kidneys to process all of them. I would limit the amount to the top 5 or 6 and monitor your liver enzymes.

Shellhale profile image
Shellhale

Yes! Husband takes 180 mg daily for over a year now. I will link a good video with references. youtu.be/Roh4lQXneQg?si=FJI...

carguy profile image
carguy in reply toShellhale

Great talk. Thanks for sharing.

Shellhale profile image
Shellhale

It's true that there is not alot of evidence on dosages. But from all my research I find 180 mg to be the most used dosage. There is 6 mechanisms of actions. It also helps resensitize resistance to the androgen receptor. It can also be used like a aromatase inhibitor to block estrogen.

jazj profile image
jazj in reply toShellhale

But where are the clinical studies with a few hundred patients to prove it actually has a significant beneficial effect on disease progression?

Shellhale profile image
Shellhale in reply tojazj

There are several studies.

oncotarget.com/article/2775....

jazj profile image
jazj in reply toShellhale

I now recall seeing that (it's what prompted my interest a ways back). The problem is, (a) it's only one study, (b) the dosage is only 3mg so why are people taking 20-180 mg as 3mg works like an antioxidant 20+ works as a pro-oxidant, (c) it's just 5-year follow-up, in many studies involving systematic therapies there's short term benefit 1-5 years but longer term studies show no benefit in overall survival, and (d) this appears only effective in people in high-risk groups (which would apply to a lot of people here of course but not all.)

I think the bottom line is for me is 3mg is safe and not counter-productive no matter what your risk group. 20+ mg, I'd be concerned about having good data that it's far better than 3mg due to the risk of side effects.

jazj profile image
jazj in reply toShellhale

Evidence for 20mg (not Prostate Cancer specific though)

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articl...

Scientific background that antioxidants can be counterproductive for cancer patients.

mdpi.com/2072-6694/15/11/3037

"toxic levels of ROS lead physiological cell death and cell tumor suppression, while lower ROS levels are associated with carcinogenesis and cancer progression. On the contrary, a high level of NRF2 promotes cell survival related to cancer progression activating an adaptive antioxidant response"

I've brought this subject up before. The big unanswered question is at what point in a cancer patients timeline do you stop taking any supplements that is an antioxidant that activated NRF2? In other words, when do you go from 3mg melatonin to 20+?

Lizzo30 profile image
Lizzo30

If you are on ADT you aren't producing testosterone Some of mens testosterone is converted to estrogen

So ADT = no testosterone and no estrogen

Melotonin is an estrogen antagonist

Are you on ADT ? The point I'm trying to make is if you are on ADT you won't benefit from depleting what small amount of estrogen you have by taking melotonin - rather you want to add estrogen for bone health

My husband isnt on ADT and has 3 mg of melatonin every night

I find Melatonin is great for covid gastro problems - but I have arthritis so have to have estrogenic agents to counter any melatonin I take

Sorry if I haven't explained this very well - melatonin has some great benefits - it's good for your eyes and makes you feel relaxed and sleepy

Shellhale profile image
Shellhale in reply toLizzo30

Alot of men on ADT use estradiol patches. It would be a good thing to get a hormone panel test or a Dutch test prior to melatonin if on ADT. This would be a good discussion to bring up to integrative oncologist or MD.

Lizzo30 profile image
Lizzo30 in reply toShellhale

I don't think many or even any men in UK get estrodial patches

jazj profile image
jazj in reply toShellhale

Yes, I read a very low dose estradiol patch can help minimize ADT side effects while not adding major side effects in itself as long as you keep the dose pretty low.

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n

Melatonin:

It's a three act play about a guy who meets a woman at a bar. Mel at on in.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

Don_1213 profile image
Don_1213 in reply toj-o-h-n

Bada-bing! (Cymbal/brush fading away..)

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply toDon_1213

And a slight tap with a rute on the snare drum....signaling the standing audience to end cheering and applause.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

carguy profile image
carguy

I take 30mg before bed and it helps me sleep.

stealthrider profile image
stealthrider

Google Scholar search comes up with quite a few tech papers on the subject of melatonin and prostate cancer. I work with a naturopathic oncologist in addition to my regular medical team. Her target for me was 20mg before bed. I developed premature atrial contractions after about 6 months. I stopped the melatonin and the PACs stopped. Went back on at 10mg and they started again so I stopped completely for now. You can also find papers which link melatonin use to PVCs. Seems it has that effect on a small percentage of people who take it.

I am 17 months in on Eligard now.

Seasid profile image
Seasid

It looks that every medication has some side effects or at least on some people or a combination of medication. You/ we are conducting clinical trials on ourselves all the time.

jazj profile image
jazj

Well I've re-reviewed all the evidence on Melatonin. It seems to be one of the most visited supplement subjects on here. I'm a little burnt out so not going to post links to studies ad-nauseum since they are most all already plastered all over dozens of previous discussions on here in the last 6 or so years. My purpose is posting these opinions is to think out loud and invite anyone to add clarity that reinforces or contradicts.

1) I've not found any evidence that Melatonin is counterproductive in PCa treatment. All evidence has been inconclusive or positive (it has shown benefit in several studies in the context of PCa, in-vitro, in-vivo, and human clinical studies)

2) There is no evidence of significant safety issues at very high doses (melatonin has no LD50) but there are potential drug interactions although relatively less severe in general than many other supplements. According to Drugs.com, there are 6 minor, 312 moderate, and 1 major interaction. In my experience with this interaction tool, when I've done deeper dives into drug interactions, moderate really does mean moderate as in "not that big a deal." The only major interaction is with the antidepressant Brexanolone. However I'm of course not advocating to just jump into a high dose of melatonin without digging deeper on interactions that are classified as moderate for any drugs you are taking so you can be aware of it and keep an eye on things.

3) There is no consensus on dosage. Benefit has been shown at both 20mg daily year-round and 3mg daily excluding the 3 Winter months. Most here with Advanced PCa appear to be leaning towards the high dosage route. What is ironic is the most referenced human study at 3mg excluding Winter had the most benefit for PCa patients with the worst prognosis (high Gleason, Mets, etc - IOW - Advanced PCa patients!) It has been proposed here that 10 mg is a pro-oxidant. Unfortunately there are no human studies I can find that subdivided cohorts into a low dose and high dose category to give more clarity as to which dose is most appropriate. Because of its safety profile, it appears the high dose is more commonly recommended by Naturopathic Oncologists. Yet the 3mg study contradicts the contention that a high dose is necessary for significant benefit in Advanced PCa patients. IOW, my jury is still out on "more is better."

4) Taking Melatonin does not decrease the amount the body produces naturally. It's effectiveness as a sleep aid can diminish with constant usage though.

5) I've found no significant discussion about taking a daytime dose of Melatonin, yet the Dr. most famous for research in this area, Dr. Reiter, points out in at least one interview that cancer doesn't stop growing during the day when your Melatonin level is lowest! My opinion is, you could still maintain a normal circadian rhythm but bring your melatonin levels up during the daytime, by simply taking a much smaller dose during the daytime that doesn't make you drowsy. Taking 0.5 mg makes a huge relative increase in circulating Melatonin relative to normal baseline with no supplementation. But if you are taking 6-20 mg at night you are still maintaining a similar curve of circulating Melatonin being much higher in the night. Furthermore, there have been papers that hypothesize the anti-cancer properties of Melatonin may have to do with the Melatonin to Cortisol ratio. Coincidentally, you have the highest cortisol levels in the morning at the same time you begin your lowest melatonin levels! My hypothesis is that finding a low dose of Melatonin (extended release) in the morning to increase the Met/Cort ratio throughout the day that doesn't cause drowsiness and is much lower than the nighttime dose may be a logical regimen to try to derive the most benefit. Possibly an often overlooked strategy?

There's a ton of interviews with Dr. Reiter. I particularly enjoyed this one: youtube.com/watch?v=YU9QUbs...

6) There is no human clinical evidence that Melatonin can cause permanent remission. So like all things outside primary and secondary curative intent treatment (surgery and/or radiotherapy), everything else just boils down to a delay tactic, some more effective than others in the amount of delay. Unfortunately most people on here are taking a lot of other substances other than Melatonin so anecdotal reports on its degree of effectiveness are not very useful.

7) The body of evidence that it is useful in cancer treatment has been growing significantly to the point that I've seen at least one paper inferring that nowadays any Oncologist not adding it as an option because it's not technically in the Standard of Care (yet) are essentially negligent or uninformed.

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