If someone told me 18 months ago that I would not be able to do one push up...... I walk about 3 miles a day on average, but darn. Telling someone to go work out, when they don't work out, is like telling someone to just quit smoking.....and I wrong? and is it to late? Dick is gone, cum is gone, my fuckin body hurts in a different place every day. The picture is becoming more clear to me.
Weak, so weak: If someone told me 1... - Advanced Prostate...
Weak, so weak
56 Replies
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Hi there. Sounds like your muscles need glutathione. I take 600mg/day of lyposomal glutathione from Natural Factors. I have more strength and stamina with no T than I had with the T. Also, take lyposomal quercetin, also from NF. Quercetin also stimulates osteoblasts, which is good for bone integrity.
• in reply toSillyUserName2
Thanks for the tip
I am interested in any help I can get for my muscles. The question is how are these supplements reacting with the cancer and any treatments that we might be having.
You can go online and search quercetin and prostate cancer study & the same with glutathione.
Have you tried physical therapy?
• in reply toTall_Allen
no, but that's a good idea
Islandboy2021• in reply to
I have been doing physical therapy for a few weeks after a painful sciatica injury. It has helped me get through a very difficult period. I have had some serious muscle loss after a year of chemotherapy. I am starting to walk again and doing light exercises.
Yea , you are describing my daily life for the ( more or less ) last 6 years. Frankly, and I hate to say this but it surprisingly gets much worse. I know everyone is different and we all deal with things differently but , I love to use my perspective of “ work around s “ as I call them.
The general consensus here is that if you exercise , even with elastic bands at home, you will improve dramatically over time.probably that works for most …. didn’t help me much if at all. I sank so low that I’m in a wheelchair, I have an abnormally high met load that has damaged every joint I have ..including nasal passages , mandible etc. it can get to the point where you will lay down and sleep for 14-16 or more hours a day. Too groggy to wake up fully, appetite gone , … pretty much messed up brother.
I’m young, only near 80. ( 79 ) , my mind is about 45-55. … I’m FAR from ready to just lie down and waste away and croak now.
I’d ( just IMHO , Im no doctor ) : first make sure you are on your palliative care register, you easily qualify and it makes everything easier. Then ask your palliative specialist doctor to give you a script for 5mg Vicodins ( you don’t need to be numbed out, just take the pain edge off ). Also for some ( .25mg is OK ) Xanax to fluff up your metal state and allow you to ease back and start enjoying life again ( ditch the anxiety ). Ask your oncologist to prescribe some 0.025mg transdermal estrogen patches to lift you up as well …. For some / many they are almost a miracle. Might save this for a few years from now …..
Then …..can’t walk ??? ( I know you are walking now but as you decline or if you want to make it way more interesting )
Now sounds like time ( early ) to get yourself a etrike, the kind you pedal. You get mild to heavy exercise ( or it does ALL the work if you get tired ) and you can go 40 miles ( you choose how much exercise / effort you expend ) for over 3 hours. Put a Bruno lift on your car or pickup and take it to resorts , hike and bike trails, major shopping centers, restaurants, zoo, pizza and pipes, casinos … zillions of places limited solely by your imagination. It’s endless fun and entertainment . This will make your life more fun and interesting and make you want to get up and get out every day.
I could expand on this volumes but you begin to get the drift. We gonna let this crap take over our lives and kick our a$$es or we gonna take charge and turn our remaining lives to QOL fun where / while we still have plenty of life left. Yea things have changed and us warriors have to change with the times …. But you’ve got plenty of life and fun opportunities , , especially with your loved ones,… lying ahead. Get out and start using your time wisely, and try to make up for all those days, weeks, months, and years we have wasted. Don’t waste the remaining days , weeks , months etc.
anyway that’s what I do , just my take.
Love ya brother, brush it off and refocus for the good stuff.
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Drive this to the zoo , casino or coastal resort and get on with life. Just say’in
I bought an e-assist trike when I realized that my upright biking days were over. My bones are tarting to ache a lot and my psa is doubling fast I hope the trike helps with building bones. At this point walking distances is difficult but the trike is much easier. I have customized the trike a lot and on Thurs should have a backup battery arriving so I can take longer trips. Once i get to the county road it is a lot flatter and faster. My young guy Poodle needs the exercise as much as I do. Dogs and biking (and computer programming and machining to keep my brain working) are the most important things in my life. And then my husband, I guess.
That etrike will certainly give you dramatically more mobility for sure, and you can dial up the effort level to suit what your body can stand or wants in the moment. The e-bikes and trikes are extremely fun toys that have stunning implications , especially for us old farts with aPCa.
Yea dual batteries is the only way to fly for sure. I’d ride my e-assist vehicle ( bike or trikes) out until it started to loose umpth considerably then turn around and ride back until it couldn’t go much more and switch to battery #2 and I’d have confidence that I’d get back safely and without embarrassment rotflol. You could consider taking your trike in and having a 750 or better 1000 motor installed. You’d lose a bit of range probably but more is better isn’t it. lol
I hope the hubby doesn’t read this, lol…… Lesseenow,….poodle,- etrike - then hubby ….. rotflol. Might find some flat tires lol.
Etrike are exciting, no doubt about it…. People just don’t realize how much until they try one.
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He knows he is no competition for the Poodles. I have a very powerful motor, I think it is 750 watts. It is the Bosch system. It amazes me what it can do with that little motor and the range is impressive. They mush have built a very efficient system. The replacement 400 or 500 wqtt hour batteries are absurdly expensive. I bought a 70000mah battery/inverter unit with pure sine wave. The idea is to use it for emergencies to charge the Bosch battery with the stock charger (i know there is some conversion loss) and to charge phone headlight etc if necessary. I keep forgetting to put a search on ebay for a dead battery cheap. As long as the BMS is still working it is just a matter of installing standard cells for about 25% the cost of a new battery. I bought the batteries for another application and the welder and metal bridging stuff.
We had a pair of little brown teacup poodles, they were very smart , loyal and loving. Both of them died as old men in my arms, it was heartbreaking. They lived a privileged life filled with love. We have pebble tech floors in the hallways now, really not suitable for dogs, especially poodles that must anoint every inch of their territory rotflol.
What you have done battery wise is interesting. Of course , first you just install a bike rack on your bumper hitch and you can go get one or both e-trikes if they run out of juice in an inopportune place. Second, like you , I bought a sine wave inverter and kept / keep it in the truck bed box. Still have it. While you are transporting the a trike you can charge them ( plug into the trailer power connector ) or go rescue one and charge it with the truck. I put a second battery holder on each bike for extended range too. Yep at about $500 apiece X 4 batteries…. It’s pricey. 2nd batteries are a no brainer. I like the 750 motor as well, the style mounted at the crank which uses the gear system , best. My wife’s folding e-bike had the 750 hub drive but didn’t employ the gears. Both bikes systems worked great. That little shove you in the back push-push-push was impressive.
When wet bag batteries are assembled ( both lithium and MFLA ) , the factory has many 1000s on hand to choose from, they measure each battery cell and closely match cells to assemble batteries. An assembled battery that doesn’t use balanced cell construction suffers in efficiency and performance. My etrike uses 5 very large maintenance free LA batteries ( kinda like golf cart batteries ), 60 volts at 22 ah. I just replaced the batteries a few weeks ago, ….I have about 15-18 batteries out in the garage , I order a new set and I have an automated tester the size of a voltmeter ( ACT 612 intelligent battery tester , about $400 ) that I match them with before installing a set. I want all to be 22ah or more . While in use an individual battery can take a dump or degrade, its easy to find the offender and restore a balanced battery chain for maximum performance. This without removing all the batteries. Even if ALL batteries are measuring the same , ( say 18 ah ) the battery will still perform well. A degraded cell in a string of good ones screws everything up and strains your good cells.
My only experience is with lithium batteries in my upright e-assist and now trike. They both have crank motors so use the gears .the trike is 8 speed cluster with a single chainring. makes shifting easy to figure out.
I don't think that the lithium cells are usually balanced maybe for the highese end products and maybe Bosch is that? They have a BMS which treats each cell separately. It is supposedly no big deal to replace cells in these. I bought the cells for my garden tools not the bosch but they are the same cells. If the bosch dies before i get a spare one i will try replacing the cells
That makes sense. My e-bikes had a battery that looked like several bags of liquid and my drones and support equipment have batteries that looked like bags of liquid too, but with a big CPU processor that couples to the drone. Not yer daddies dry cells anymore lol. Still fun stuff , part of the hobby fun of etrikes or e-anything. The cpu in the drone batteries even recorded the flight info lol.
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Wise words for us all, Kaliber.
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My comment was actually intended to follow your first comment above! Folks might wonder why I would find etrike battery details to be "wise words!"
Rotflol ….. well they could be ….its all good buddy, all in fun too. Enough brain cells left and on here commiserating with your fellow warriors, “ that’s “ REAL good for any of us poor souls. 😁😁😁
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Sorry ---- what is "rotflor"?
Roll on the floor laughing out loud. A little bigger exclamation than lol. Laughing out loud. Lots of us have adt brain fog and / or adt sourced small cell white damage. Basically coherent strings of thought and / or conversation are a win-win for brothers in this cancer treatment world. Longer term guys likely to have more of it than shorter term guys. It’s all good, we brothers hang in there together no matter what.
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Kaliber, I love your posts and frequently save them for future reference. Thanks so much for sharing all your 'work-arounds'. I have a fair amount of anxiety projecting into the future for my husband and me - you help reassure me that yeah, we can do this.❤️
Thank you …. Don’t know if you have done it ( yet ) but if you get hubby on the palliative register, specialist there are very skilled at helping with anxiety. I’m sure every one of us has been swimming in anxiety from time to time, there are many new and recent meds that handle anxiety very nicely and your palliative care team / Dr will help both of you make that vanish . They treat both family and your husband. My palliative doctor has worked miracles for me. Before I got on the register, for several years, I had to “ wing it “ on my own. Palliative care makes things dramatically better for me and my wife.
Yes yes ….. you can manage this and make your life a QOL time as well. I’m sure everyone here gets it and will help you , just like they would want if the tables were turned. I’m hoping you guys have many fine years ahead of you.
Love you guys
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I hadn't thought of looking into palliative register (in fact, hadn't HEARD of it) - will look into it. We're only two years in, and Eric is doing well on first line of treatment so far (triplet w/ Eligard, abiraterone, and docetaxel). But he's full of mets and had some aggressive cancer cells in bio, so I can't help thinking about the shoes that will drop eventually. I'm worried about pain management, fractures, the whole enchilada. Our financial situation isn't good either. So yeah - anxiety is a definite factor. Eric is on an anti-depressant and I'm about to ask our pcp (who is superb) about getting myself on something. I was very proud of getting myself off antidepressants after some 30 yrs on them (about 7-8 yrs ago), and managing the breakthroughs with CBD oil and a lot of hiking (being ourdoors is soul food). But I'm sliding over the last few months...it is what it is, I could use the extra help. Anyway, just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your detailed and thoughtful posts - they are really helpful.
in your case, you will want to talk this over with your medical specialist. Definitely, if you have kicked a habit of tranks, getting back with them again would likely be a real bad choice. This has got be a situation your palliative care team has experienced before and has some solutions that help without waking your habit. I know the physical baggage that comes with addiction can be extremely difficult to shed, …but for many people the mental part is even worse. ( I worked in a V.A. Medical Center for 32 years . ) That you got off them is really amazing, a good thing, you don’t want to wake that monster back up again. Your situation is especially difficult, it will take innovative thinking your medical team can provide.
“ stuff “ piles on top of “ stuff “ sometimes doesn’t it, for cripes sake. I have strong confidence there are some great answers out there for you and hubby. I’m pulling for both of you , each in your own need. A big fuzzy e-hug out to both of you …. The group is always here if you need to vent or just be with other like minded / situation people . Who gets “ us “ better than “ us “ ?
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I was never on tranks, but was on a succession of mostly SSRIs over many years (which have an unpleasant habit of ceasing to be effective after several years on it) (plus a trial with Wellbutrin, which didn't work, and a tricyclic, which was safe for breastfeeding). Every time I tried to get off resulted in a depressive crash & burn within months. I ultimately hated them - was getting "zappy brain" (don't now how else to describe it) and just didn't WORK. I figured anything that was giving me brain zaps couldn't possibly be healthy. Withdrawal was over months and months to minimize things like brain zaps and extreme restless legs. Anyway, been doing some reading on what's out there to help facilitate discussion with pcp, who as I said is great and I trust him. "Stuff" sure does pile on "stuff" - Eric lost his job due to cancer/chemo - he went on disability and ultimately was told 'yeah...no, we don't have a place for you any more, we're having financial problems'. And despite 2 years of resumes and job hunting, nobody wants to hire a guy in his late 60s (now 70). So the two of us will probably be at Walmart or Lowes soon. Fun. Thanks for the support - this group is great and I read here every day. You have become one of my faves.😊
My apologies there. I’m still filled with the “ old “ descriptors from yesteryear. In the early - mid 60s I worked in Sunland State hospital in Florida. My ward was non ambulatory, mentally retarded ( IQ lower than 40 ) patients. Hydrocephalic, macrocephalic. Brain damaged etc. Back in the early 60’s … from the fourties’ to sixties there were downers, uppers and “ powders “. Powders were basically bromine sedatives / derivatives which were addictive. Powders were called powders because they came in little folderd pieces of paper and were , of course, powders. Many OTC drugs like aspirin came that way too. Then ,in the 60s came mothers little helpers, vallium. They were handed out freely to anyone that asked, mostly distraught housewives . The birth of the benzodiazepines. Bromine drugs were basically phased out of mainstream medicine. So then there were uppers, downers and tranks ( tranquilizers). Nomenclature was generalized into three categories. Tranks were the sedatives of the era too. Soooooo … left from the “ old “ days were uppers ( stimulants ), downers or narcs ( narcotics) and -everything else called tranks . A vast field of drugs and medicine simplified into “ tranks “ . lol Of course today there are categories upon categories of “ tranks “ things have gotten way more complicated. The two , major and minor tranquilizers. One the anti psychotic and the other minor tranquilizers which are the anti anxiety agents. And it could on forever nearly. I used the descriptor tranks out of an old habit. 😁
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Never stepped into a gym after high school. 40 years later hired a trainer and now go 5-t6 times a week. I find it therapeutic and the only pain I have is from lifting. It is doable
When I was working I had a long commute and only managed to hit the gym on a weekend. Now that I am retired I go to the gym three times a week. Gets me out of the house and allows me to socialize too.
Ya I go with my 78 year old neighbor and my wife. Makes for a great start to the day
this etrike will give you all the walking style exercise you want, or dial it in so the etrike does all the work effortlessly. Get 500 watt motor or preferably a 750 watt motor and go all over town or 40 miles in the country. I guarantee an etrike ( most reliable brands ) will make you feel 15 years old again while riding it.
Fat tire etrike toy for exercise and / or outdoor fun
From your photo I found the site addmotor.com/. Good source to know, and thanks!
Yea , I thought that picture represented more the outdoors fun concept than the old style photo of an old codger , coming back from the store with groceries in his basket, on the sidewalk outside the nursing home rotflol. I didn’t want to mention a brand or brands due to Daryl’s advertising policy . I rode fat tire e-bikes , couple of brands for many years. I had my bikes long before there were stores in town selling and ( esp ) servicing them. This picture is kinda amusing because fat tire tires have very thin carcasses and you have to go through great lengths to puncture proof them. Even keeping them on pavement or sidewalks , they will get punctures. Still the extra effort would be worth it. Etriking or biking is great fun, one of the best , most rewarding, toys of current times.
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Yep, when you get something happen, generally people can deal with it. It becomes more of an issue when you get an accumulation of events which effectively overwhelm you. For exercise, you should consider one step at a time - literally.
If it's a pushup, put in the effort to do as much as you can and incrementally push that a bit further. Does it matter if.you take a month? Nope. Doesn't mean there are other exercises you can also do.
Once you hit your target, set your new target at 2. Rinse and repeat.
I did this with swimming. Couldn't do a width. I used to be terrified of drowning as a child..
Now I can swim 10 miles if I want. More if I had to.
It's never too late to try. I'll still try until I die.
No reason you can't either.
I certainly hear what you are saying muttonman & most here would probably be in the same boat without exercise of some sort. I hit myself with L-Carnitine or just Korean Ginseng before a trip to the gym, it helps with energy.
The whole deal we ended up with in life stinks I know but what will you do? Roll over & die? Get up & Get On With It.
e-bikes are truly a game changer for us folks who got dealt this hand. I ride mine no less than 25 miles a day. Not only does it make me feel like a teenager it gets around 100 smiles to the mile! Enjoy moderate amount of exercise and in my case, much needed and improved mental stability as I ride out this disease. Happy pedaling!
I have no idea, but I like what these other guys say about e-bikes/trikes etc. It will change your mood for better imo.
I ride motorcycles off-road and on-road. Almost always brings a smile to face. All sport makes me happy and I think Im pretty typical.
I'm 71 and had my prostate out, 3 years ago with additional triple therapy (Lupron Nubeqa and Chemo-Docetaxel). Mets to T8 and node in pelvis. Radiation to both. PSA <0.01 last 2 years.
I sympathize with the "dick doesn't work". Body/joint pain. Depression. Fatigue. But you know what?. I don't want to give up and I want to live. So I walk around 5 miles a day. I try to go to the gym 2-3 times a week. I can't lift nearly what I used to but it helps. If your kidney lab tests are ok then you can talk Ibuprofen occasionally for the aches and pains.
It sucks. It's the hand we have been dealt. If you feel depressed (a common side effect from the low Testosterone ) go see someone and get on antidepressants; no shame in that. See if there is an online or in person support group where you can go and vent or just talk with others in a similar situation. It helps. Your MO office should be able to help with these things. Don't give up. Keep plugging.
Good luck to you and the others on this forum dealing with this disease.
Breathing is my exercise....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
Well, it's a good subject! I didn't believe it would happen to me, but let's see ...
Lost about 25lbs+, mostly muscle in upper Body. Shoulders are so bony now, lost mass, volume, strength and stamina. Used to walk 12+ miles per day between work and lifestyle. Chemo kicked my butt, and then Lynparza shortly thereafter I would say has been a downer, lol.
But I fought back, went back to my Martial Art group and began working out. Take what I can get, I'm the youngest of the group (went back @ 58yrs old). Not like we do 1000 kicks punches and more like the old days, but it's still a workout. I had days were I couldn't last 20mins and had to sit., etc. Stamina has improved but muscle loss is still extreme. Used to be able to do 25+ pushups without thinking about it, not any more... Used to do pushups to measure my physicality when going through my original RT in 2019...
But I can walk miles now, can work out for 1+1/2 hours (most days) etc. And feel really good!
But muscle mass is going to be a full time experiment now. Not too sure how to build mass without Testosterone! So this is a good subject. Basically posting so to follow the thread, lol
Good Luck
I was in a similar place not so long ago. After getting close to 50 pushups last year, I had to stop almost all my strength work due to various orthopedic issues.
Finally got back to lifting over the summer, then got to trying pushups - I could barely get one of them done.
Kept at it. I refuse to let this PC BS own me.
Eventually got to 3 ... then 5 ... then after starting my off-cycle (intermittent ADT) and getting some T back, I bumped it up to 10; that was early October. Yesterday, I knocked out 20.
So my message is to get at it, and keep at it.
But if you overtrain, it's counterproductive, e.g. if you push the same muscle group two days in a row. Take at least one day of rest/recovery, and/or work a different group. The amount of rest depends on how hard you push your sets. If you push to failure, you'll need more recovery. Recovery time is when the muscle fibers repair and get bigger in the process (i.e. stronger).
Some guys do upper-lower, there's also push-pull-legs, etc variations.
I now know more about e-bikes than I knew before I wrote this post. Thanks for all of the replies, I'm still suffering in many complicated ways that I will keep to myself from now on. I do have immense gratitude though for my life, the ups and downs. I have been very fortunate and continue to be fortunate to have the best care available care and fantastic family and friends. I updated my bio finally for John.
Kaliber• in reply to
Congratulations buddy for your great post …. One that stimulated great camaraderie and socializing among your fellow warriors. Post like this are important on the group to bring your brothers together and help with much needed socialization among us. You did good brother, and think of the etrike information you spurred. Lol. Etrikes may be among of the most important tools for guys like us at different times. Don’t hesitate to get on and vent or grumble about physical comfort or mental comfort issues. Talking about it helps you unload and like minded guys with similar issues can relate. Who gets this stuff better than one of us brothers ?? We definitely can relate.
Love ya brother
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I purchased an electric bike 3-4 years ago when I began ADT because I whenever I took my regular bicycle I no longer dared go too far from my house as I was worried I would not have the energy to come back home. With the electric bike, that fear vanished since I can pedal on my own for as long as I can and on the way home I can use the bike either to assist my pedaling or even to act as a scooter with no pedaling at all. Its a great invention.
• in reply toKaliber
Very kind words
When I found out about my recurrence, I DID quit smoking cold turkey after 50 years. I started working out.
The last 2 1/2 years. IIt's painful everyday, I want a cigarette with my morning coffee every day.
Just go do it.
Cigarettes are about the most difficult addiction to break. Congratulations, I know that was extremely difficult to accomplish.
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Thx
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