weight training without testosterone is just a waste of time and now with osteoporosis it's even worse osteosarcopenia .
testosterone not recovered - Advanced Prostate...
testosterone not recovered
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Radars
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Look into adding Osterine to your supplements. I have successfully gained muscle over last 3 years. As with all supplements, check with MO first
I feel your pain, I'm busting my butt at weight training, getting sore muscles but no progress building muscle or losing belly fat. But I believe it would only be getting worse if I stopped. And I'm on annual Reclast infusions to keep the osteopenia from progressing further, while I wait for testosterone to return. (I stopped ADT over 6 months ago. )
thanks, I have had 2 reclast infusions I do only light weights got to be careful, mr scruffy mentioned ostarine i have read about it but i don't know.
Perhaps my metabolism works differently, but as a runner of many decades, I’ve added weightlifting and Pilates to my routine while continuing to run daily. In my experience, the muscles you actively train will grow over time. It requires a lot of effort and consistency, but it’s effective. Conversely, the muscles you neglect will diminish entirely. That’s why it’s crucial to follow a program that engages as many muscle groups as possible. This is also important for combating osteoporosis. Just be sure to choose workouts specifically designed for people with osteoporosis, as other routines can be quite risky.
I have a trainer and lift hard three days a week for over an hour. I hate it but with a careful diet I have actually gained a kittle muscle and feel pretty good. Weight training does more tho. There is proof that it both increases your bodies ability to fight cancer and it increases bone density. Don’t give up on it.
Schwah
No weight training without testosterone is far worse. I suggest slowly increasing reps of whatever the light weight is that you’re using. It should be safe to up the reps if you keep the weight light . 40, 50 at a time or more. When you fatigue use body weight only.
Remember, the key to lifting is intensity, lifting to failure. Most older people in particular who lift never approach maximum effort..
. Always differentiate between what you can’t do and what you simply don’t want to do.
thanks, but what if you have severe osteoporosis at -2.5 and at t12.
I hear you BUT …
So change what you are doing. Learn about using resistance bands, walk up and down steps, etc. There is more than one way.
One of the easiest but hardest exercise to reduce fat is pushing away from the table.
All of this takes time. So be consistent and do not give up!
Something is better than nothing.
reduce fat I am only 8st I want to put weight on, no testosterone wins every time.
OK then increase your food intake! However do it smartly with proteins and a balanced approach.
Do you have access to a nutritionist or someone who can help you plan meals?
If you suffer from lack of appetite then exercise may also increase that desire for food and nutrients.
You have to start somewhere and be consistent.
I have osteoporosis also a -2.5 in my lumbar spine. I work out with weights 4x weekly, have for years. Never been a problem.
I disagree.
I was benching nearly 400 before - I’m over 300 still.
Giys who hate working out (before ADTvseem to be much more likely to say heavy lifting is bad or doesn’t work, etc.
You should re think things …
Yes indeed. Lifting is good for osteoporosis. But we should all keep in mind that not so long ago patients were warned against it. Same with osteoarthritis. SOC advice after hip replacement used to be hiking, shuffleboard, horseshoes,doubles tennis etc only lest it fail from the stress. Complete nonsense.
I strongly recommend taking replacement (add-back) estrogen to combat your bone loss. The PATCH 15 years study proved that this works in PCa men.
How long were you on ADT?
Is your PSA low and stable now?
I have asked my oncologist for some testosterone but he said not a good idea because there maybe some sleeping cancer cells, adt about 18 months just had my 6 monthly psa check 0.04.i have got a gp appointment coming up shortly. I have lost a lot of strength with p/c and now osteoporosis I struggle to do 10 reps deadlift with light weights.but at 76yrs old it's gonna be hard.i can do 10 reps of squat or deadlifts with lbs16,I am only 8st .
Your Oncologist is trying to save you by turning you into a weak old lady.
Do the weights. Have some pride. Do not succumb to self pity and lethargy.
Ultimately your responsible for your own health.
Love this post!!! SO many need yo hear this.
Love this post!!! SO many need yo hear this.
You have to go with what you MO says. But, in the meantime, you might want to read up on the papers by A. Morgentaler at Harvard Univ. He presents persuasive arguments that supplementing lost testosterone is safe and effective. Regarding the T recovery time, the rule of thumb is that it takes the same amount of time to recover your baseline T as the length of your ADT duration. So, you were on ADT for 18 months...this means it will take an average of 18 months to recover your T. Remember, that some men will be slower and some will be faster...it's highly variable.
Since your T is so low, your estradiol is also very low, which is why you have osteoporosis. The UK PATCH study showed that adding-back the lost estradiol is safe and effective. It's been proven to actually grow bone, while the bisphosphonates only stop the further loss of bone, but they don't grow net bone.
thanks, I finished my treatment in 2016 rt/ht and it has not recovered that is why I have osteoporosis.
Personal opinion. You need a modern trainer. There are many new techniques since last time I was in a gym as a collegiate athlete.
You also need if you have not already started to do some walking. I do about 15,000 steps each day which is in the 5 to 6 mile range. Get a fit bit or Apple Watch to monitor your progress.
Keep a log of all training. It makes you accountable.
I am almost 80 and I have been at it for just over 18 months. It has worked miracles on my physical appearance, stamina and overall mental attitude.
Good luck!
he said there “might” be some sleeping cancer cells. But what if there isn’t? Then you would be denying yourself testosterone for nothing. In my mind the simple thing to do is take the testosterone and watch the psa carefully, if it rises, then stop the testosterone, and if necessary a short course of ADT.
It’s your body, your choice. It’s quality vs quantity. Would you prefer a longer , crappier life, or a shorter but more enjoyable one.?
Zhe said I am high risk t3b no mo, if I was just localized he would give me trt.
not chancing testosterone not going back on adt the side effects were crap oncologist stopped adt earlier because of the side effects, I would rather be 8st and feel ok.
I've been begging for the e2 patch, NONE of my doctors are interested and why won't the FDA approve it ? I think it's a money thing, and I'm frustrated to just watch the Osteopenia get worse even while on Xgeva every 3 months, I feel like I'm just poisoning myself with the Xgeva, when the low dose estrogen could actually reverse the bone loss. It's frustrating.
Yes, it's frustrating about E2 availability. Here are some ideas:
1. Ask your PCP? or GP to prescribe E2 for hot flashes;
2. Order some E2 gel or cream/paste from Thailand (I don't think they require a prescription);
3. Ask your local compounding pharmacists for a list of doctors who regularly prescribe compounded hormones, and then contact one of them to write a script for compounded E2 gel or cream; and
4. Ask a woman-friend or wife to get some E2 patches for hot flashes and use them for yourself.
It's going to be a while until the USA approves it for men with PCa.
The FDA will never review or approve the use of estradiol for PCa because big Pharma is not asking to have it repurposed for prostate cancer. Being a natural hormone, Pharma can't make any money off of it. So, the barrier for the moment is not Big Brother Government, but rather Big Pharma’s disinterest. The FDA doesn’t spend the government's time and money assessing the risks and benefit of a drug, when no one is interested in marketing the drug.
The next step is for the PATCH study team to seek repurposing (extending the license) for estradiol treatment of PCa in the UK. One of the major stumbling blocks in that effort is that not enough men have asked their doctors to prescribe it (believe it or not...). So, there needs to be a huge education effort and polls taken in the UK before the National Health Service will approve repurposing the license. A similar effort is needed in the USA. But, maybe the USA will follow the UK's lead if their repurposing is successful. Canada and Australia will need to do something similar, too.
Bob in New Mexico
"weight training without testosterone is just a waste of time"
It works for me. My testosterone has been <3 for the past 10 months on ADT doublet therapy, and I do a 45-minute exercise routine almost daily, using 9 Matrix resistance machines at a facility. This weight training without testosterone has been beneficial.
Each muscle group gets 30 reps in sets of 10 with a 30-second rest between each set. That works each muscle until it is tired. I leave each session feeling relaxed yet energized, the muscles are never sore, and I feel great all day. The weights have increased considerably, not necessarily to build strength, but to continue to work the muscles to the point required to release their beneficial endorphins and myokines.
I have muscle gain rather than loss, and I hope to show no bone loss at my next DXA scan in a few months.
do you do 3x10 reps with the same weight, how bad is your osteoporosis, mine is-2.5 4.1 lumbar spine bmd at femoral neck is 0.593 vfa superior end-plate deformity at t12, it would not be good lifting heavy weights with those scores
I do 3x10 without changing the weight, on each of the 9 machines. I could not do 30 straight without a rest between every 10. The weight varies greatly, of course, depending on the machine. For instance, these days, Leg Press is 270, Abdominal Curl is 170, and Back Extension is 150. But Chest Press is 50, and Overhead Press is only 35.
I do not have osteoporosis. And none of the exercises are heavy lifting, just enough to tire the muscle after 3x10 reps. The 1st rep is effortless, and the 30th rep is hard.
I do not weight train, but I agree the muscles you don't use get lost. The muscles I use are from my bicycling and walking/hiking. 21000 steps yesterday (about 7 miles of hiking trails and beach), 35 mile ride Friday, heading out today for more hiking. No belly fat to speak of, at least nothing that shows in bike kit. I'm 5 years into the treatment but had about a year off before my recurrence. My T came back in about 3 months and the cancer followed fairly quickly so be careful what you wish for. If your cured that's another story. I am metastatic but still hormone sensitive. Everything gets harder when your older which is why I started pushing myself harder 5 years ago with my dx. The only gains I see are from spring to fall when weather allows me to up my exercise even more, but I haven't seen much loss in fitness year to year yet either. That said I am only 61 and was dx at 56. I keep meaning to ask my MO about a patch but I will. No idea what he will say. Just keep up what your doing and try not to get disappointed. It does matter and if you want what you have now at 78 you need to keep pushing yourself, safely, but as hard as that allows. Just my opinion. I hope you find an answer.
why is it a waste of time? There is person after person saying it is crucial - you should reconsider…
I'll just add that Noone here disagrees with level of frustration. Most of us have been there. Just keep on trucking buddy
Weight training without any sexy looking women in the gym is a waste of time.
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
I began Lupron on October 30, 2023. At about the same time, I began taking a LOT of herbs and supplements. But I began taking two Natural Factors products just before I began leuprolide: 250 mg lipomicel quercetin at twice / day and 300 mg lipomicel at twice / day. Muscles need glutathione and G is used by body builders. A week after I started, I noticed the difference in my strength and stamina. Quercetin helps break up agglutination of platelets, thus reducing the odds of metastasis. It also stimulates osteoblasts to rebuild bone. Berberine also stimulates osteoblasts. Berberine and I don't get along, so I only use it twice / week.
Meanwhile, I biked over 1000 kms this summer and matched my average from when I was 30 years old. I also press more reps than I did when I had T. My bone density is in the low-risk category.
For what it’s worth, I’m 76, have no testosterone and have osteopenia. I do weight training because I feel 100% better as a human being when I do. I’m not trying to build muscle, just want to stand a bit straighter and look like I’m NOT 76. 😂
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