Change in PSA

[epfj3333]

My PSA has been <.064 for a couple years. This time it was <.05. The test is always done by the same lab. Does this mean anything?

[Don717]

Statistically insignificant and/or a change in the low parameter of the assay. I'd call that excellent!!

[MrG68]

How about looking at a time series of your psa's, drawing a trend line and looking at the gradient of the line as opposed to a single value.

[GoBucks]

Old math and new math agree. .05 is less than .06. Grab a beer. Or better yet, grab some ice cream.

[epfj3333 in reply to GoBucks]

I graduated from Ohio State in 1973 so I'm not that smart in math! I'm not much of a beer drinker and don't have any ice cream in the freezer but I WILL drink three or four Beef Eater martinis before dinner!

[GoBucks in reply to epfj3333]

Lol. You must have taken Math 120 or whatever it was called. '73 eh? Were you a streaker?

[epfj3333 in reply to GoBucks]

It was Math 101 (remedial High School math). I got a "D." And yes, I was a streaker with an extremely large pecker. Now I can't find my pecker!

[GrantB47 in reply to epfj3333]

The "accelerated" 5-year program?

[Tall_Allen]

It only means the lab got a slightly more sensitive test kit. It's only the "<" that's important.

[epfj3333 in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thanks TA. I really wasn't worried but it's the fact that it was different after two years. Happy Holidays to you! I appreciate your knowledge. Thanks for all you do for us.

[Stevegr in reply to epfj3333]

Hi,

What therapy have you been on for the past 2 years?

Merry Christmas

[jeff1257 in reply to epfj3333]

In case it makes you feel better, MSKCC considers anything under .05 as undetectable. Congrats!!

[jeff1257 in reply to Tall_Allen]

in this case, the < is the important thing because the LLD of the most recent test is lower. If the LLD was now significantly higher, the < could be irrelevant.

[Tall_Allen in reply to jeff1257]

The < always means the actual value is below the lower limit of detection, and is never irrelevant.

[jeff1257 in reply to Tall_Allen]

Really? Let's say that BCR = x, so we don't have to quibble whether it's 0.1 or 0.2 after prostatectomy (or nadir plus 2.0 or something else after radiation). Now let's then say that the LLD is x+y, with y = a positive integer. Is the < relevant ? Maybe, but not always. A reading of < x+y can still be BCR.

[Tall_Allen in reply to jeff1257]

There are no PSA tests available anywhere with a LLD>0.1

[jeff1257 in reply to Tall_Allen]

UCSF says BCR is .03. If a test result says <.1, is the < the only relevant thing to UCSF? Moreover, your statement was not qualified by saying anything about ranges of LLD or levels of BCR. I don't need a response, this is a 4th grade math question, not a matter of medicine.

[Tall_Allen in reply to jeff1257]

Sorry, I don't understand your point, if you have one. Then UCSF wouldn't give a PSA test whose lowest value is 0.1, would they? There are no PSA tests whose LLD is above 0.1.

[jeff1257 in reply to Tall_Allen]

My point is your statement is incorrect and since many - me included - respect your opinion I wanted to clarify that < is not the only thing that’s important. I imagine that UCSF uses an assay with a LLD under .03, but not everyone goes there for testing. Again, I don’t need to belabor this, but if you feel you must have the last word, go ahead. I respectfully conclude this issue with this post. Happy and Healthy holidays to all.

[Jewelrylady in reply to Tall_Allen]

What is LLD?

[Tall_Allen in reply to Jewelrylady]

lower limit of detection

[SilverSeppi]

No

[johnscats]

I rely on s ans more than psa

[LowT]

they are both the same. Just that the <0.05 is more sensitive than <0.065.

[Cooolone]

Lol... No, in the minutiae, it has zero diagnostic significance. Let alone no previous information is provided. In the singular, PSA alone doesn't show or tell much at all and is why we go through an entire diagnosis including imaging and more to provide not only a diagnosis but prognosis.

That said, you're steady as she goes, pop a cork or whatever you like and celebrate!

[Horse12888]

I believe it means they have a new test that has slightly finer sensitivity (its limit was .06, now it's .05). Any reading that starts with a < sign means that its undetectable to that particular test.

The only meaning to you personally is good in terms of what your actual PSA is.

[LongTimeRunning]

Yeah, definitely different testing. I've been regularly tested this past year from 2 different labs, one connected to the clinical trial and one done locally. In the former I get <0.02 and the latter I get <0.008.

Example: July 31 (local) <0.008, Sept 21 (remote lab) <0.02, Dec 7 (local) <0.008

[RMontana]

mine vary deletion time of day. Higher in PM than morning but not that much. I panicked one time because my PSA look like it had gone up, but I went back and retested and made sure both were taken during the morning. When I retested, the next three were exactly the same. So from now on I’m testing at the same time of the day. See if that helps.

[j-o-h-n]

Does this mean anything?

Yep it means a DRE every day in a darken room for a month. After the month is over you have figure out who's finger did it. Friend or Foe?

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 12/22/2023 5:23 PM EST

[epfj3333 in reply to j-o-h-n]

I've done that. I think I figured out who did it. It had to be a guy with three hands because two of them were on my hips.

[j-o-h-n]

I had him too................. I always asked him where I should hang my trousers, and the doctor always said "next to his"..................

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 12/22/2023 6:20 PM EST

[raoulmaher]

Merry Christmas one and all kindest Raoul