I know many on here have used or recommended Dr. Kwon. I've never watched his videos, so I don't know what sets him apart from other oncologists at Mayo. Does he do SOC, but is just more aggressive, or does he actually break with SOC at times? And if so, how does he orbit on his own at a big institution like Mayo?
A man in my building is doing his PCa treatment at Mayo JAX. I mentioned Dr. Kwon to him (I know he's in MN), but when he asked his oncologist about Kwon, the oncologist said he wasn't familiar with him.
What's the lowdown on Kwon?
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No. I did watch the videos. He is controversial but I enjoyed them and did learn something. There was a discussion in a thread last week about Kwon. Tall_Allen was involved, so if you scan his replies in his profile you should be able to find it.
If you haven't watched Ep. 5 all it will cost you is an hour.
He makes youtube videos to market his theories directly to patients (he would be laughed out of the room if he presented that to peers). He is not an oncologist, which is why your oncologist never heard of him. Fortunately, Mayo Rochester has hired one of the best - Oliver Sartor.
Thanks. Yes, I've written Dr. Sartor. I don't think he starts people on BAT as early as Denmeade.
I know Kwon makes a lot of videos. I'll check out his one for Advanced. He does seem to have a lot of satisfied patients, I don't know how they do long term, though.
Lots of people raise hypotheses, as they should. The next step is to test the hypotheses. He hasn't done any clinical trials on the subjects of his videos. People who don't know better fall for it.
He actually has done some good work in immunotherapy and runs a good research lab. Educational institutions tend to give their professors free reign. Why would Mayo object if he dupes new patients? they make a lot of money.
You raise a good point: drug companies are required to provide full disclosure when they advertise to patients. Shouldn't doctors have the same restrictions?
Drug companies full disclosure is often, anything but full disclosure. J&J and Janssen said levaquin had a 1 in 33,000 chance of serious side effects. Turns out that it is more like 1 in 15 (15, not 15,000). Those companies stopped making it because they lost so many lawsuits from killing or maming so many people. Nowadays people, including me and Currampow, continue to be severely, permanently damaged from generic levafloxin. The generic drug makers can’t be sued. How screwed up is that! There is s black box warning on that drug but most doctors never mention that warning. Many doctors don’t even know what a black box warning is. I’ve asked them and they said they don’t know what a black box warning is! One oncologist I went to, didn’t even know what metformin was!
Sartor uses Androgel in what he thinks is a lower dose than the cypionate. He wants to hold testosterone constant. But because of the elimination half-life you get an undulating wave similar to a very rapid BAT scheme repeated.
Good thing this was posted. I've been afraid my doc wasn't aggressive enough and was about ready to visit Kwon.I have 2 different opinions on what to do next if needed and from what I've read, it probably will be.
But doesn't Kwon work with Sartor and Co. ? I have watched one of his long videos and he presented the team at Mayo. I do not mind him being an urologist as long as he works within a multidisciplinary team.
Yes my husband sees Dr Kwon and he does refer/consult with onco and radiation. This includes Dr Sartor and others. He has gotten other team members on the phone with us in the room to discuss next steps.
I am a patient of Dr. Kwon and highly recommend him. He is cutting edge and has the data to back him up.
Very personable and humble. His attitude is to go for a cure despite the odds. He is highly respected. If you don’t mind a trip to MN, go meet him and see for yourself.
my husband is a patient of Dr Kwon. He is an incredible doctor. His approach (was) controversial but is now standard of care, Medical research caught up. Early aggressive treatment (such as triplet therapy) yields better long term outcomes for metastatic prostate cancer. He is a urologist but as far as I know, he partners with oncologists in treating PC patients. My husband has been treated by oncologist DR Vladimir Hugec, who works closely with Kwon. He’s an amazing Dr too.
/Dr. Kwan in one of his videos cautions about the use of "now standard of care," that it is a misleading and more often a definition of the lower limit of the spectrum.
I would generally agree with him on that. Especially true for people with stage 4 cancer. I’d also add that I believe medical treatment is art/science/ and practice. If science had all the answers we’d be a disease free world.
Consider that after psychology (that in most educational systems is not considered science anyway...) with an understandable 80%, the second experimental discipline with the lowest rate of experiments reproducibility is medicine, with a surprising 50%, and I remember these numbers from pre-covid era...well, not so surprisingly after all if we consider how complex we are...so yes, I also believe there is art in being a MD!
I mention it because someone on one of these forums was trying to consult with Dr. Kwon, and when he mentioned that he was doing BAT therapy, Dr. Kwon stopped responding to him.
I use Dr Kwon for second opinions. He is definitely aggressive and working for a cure. I feel that my MO (not Mayo) is in the management of cancer business. Kwon has been extremely helpful in getting better care for me. Between the two institutions, I have learned more as well.
In the beginning, my MO wanted to put me on 2 pills plus lupron to manage my pc. Kwon said it would only put it to sleep. Chemo was the way to go. As far as I can tell I'm the first triplet therapy patient at Cleveland Clinic. Recently he decided I needed radiation to specific spots. My MO thought I was doing great. Because of Kwon I'm now get an MRI on the worst met with anticipation of zapping it. His opinions have resulted in more aggressive care back at home.
I’ve been a patient of Dr. Kwon for a year now…you can read my history in my bio. Along with Dr. Hugec at MN Oncology, they’ve provided me with treatment that‘s working and giving me more time. I am profoundly grateful to both of them. First, when my cancer recurred in October 2021, they put me on docetaxel + Carboplatin (my previous doctor wasn’t going to add Carboplatin). After six treatments, when the chemo wasn’t giving me the turnaround results I needed, Kwon moved to Lutetium-177 (Pluvicto). At the time, there was a huge shortage and he was advising me to consider travel overseas, but then the supply lines opened up. I’m going this week for treatment #6 of 6 and my latest scans show that much of my PSMA PCa is “resolved.” The before and after scans are dramatic. Obviously, I don’t know how long that will last and Kwon and his team haven’t raised false expectations. I will go back February 1 for a Choline-11 Pet scan to see if any non-PSMA PCa has developed. Kwon believes in scans, especially when the PCa doesn’t give off much (or any) PSA as in my case. After the Pluvicto, I believe I will be going back every quarter for a scan, alternating between a PSMA and Choline pet scan. Watching my PSA is meaningless in my case. I think it’s his attitude of trying to cure cancer that gives his approach a little more of an edge. He also believes in genomic testing to see if my cancer has developed any treatable mutations (I hope I’m saying this correctly) so I get a Guardant 360 test with every other treatment. So far, no treatable mutation has emerged but he says that could change and we need to keep testing. I found Dr. Kwon through watching his conference videos which I found very informative. He didn’t make these videos for a group of medical peers, he made them for patients like most of us who are trying to figure out what we can do to help ourselves. While I appreciate the highly technical videos that are available, I confess that a lot of the content passes right by me because I don’t yet understand all the terminology. Besides all of the above, Dr. Kwon is accessible, takes his time to explain things and he brings a sense of humor to the job which I like. In short, I recommend Dr. Kwon and his team highly and consider myself fortunate to be one of his patients.
Thanks for your input. Would you describe Dr. Kwon as being more aggressive with existing treatments, OR does he have something in his arsenal that no one else has?
And are all your genetic tests covered by insurance or Medicare?
He uses what’s available, just believes in going in as strong as possible. He doesn’t have any secret weapon. Yes, all of my treatments, scans and genetic tests have been covered by insurance (Medicare Supplement + AARP). I’m also taking Lupron and Nubeqa for now, and that’s all covered as well.
Kwon was on the team that got the Choline scan approved for PC scan back in (2012 (I think)). Mayo had it alone. Other hospitals and doctors couldn't offer it, so they scoffed at it. So he and Mayo have a decade of experience with PC scans that other hospitals don't. You'll also get other care like MRI scans performed that other hospitals may not prescribe for you.
Now everyone has PSMA they are all playing catch up, learning to interpret scans, what a false negative, what a false positive. You want the best software and the best equipment being used.
So flash forward to now, MAYO used PSMA scans now as the primary PC scan.
What can Mayo offer you, once scanned you can be offered cryotherapy, radiation (IMRT, SBRT, SRT, PLUVICTO, PROTON) and top experienced surgeon to cut out your cancer, way more than most hospitals. Not to mention chemo, etc.
Mayo has more weight than your local hospital or doctor.
The one negative is Kwon doesn't do peer to peer consults with insurance company denial subcontractors. So you may get a denial, I've countered that a couple of ways.
Let's say your PC is in a sensitive place near things that can cause you other problems, do you want your local hospital radiation people creating the plan and aiming at it or go to the best rated hospital or top hospital in the country. I went to MAYO.
Kwon regularly speaks in seminars to medical oncologists.
MAYO has contracts to provide genetic testing at a cost of $100
Dr Kwon seeks cures, and remission not due to ADT. ADT alone is simply a trip to treatment failure.
I have been a patient since 2017.
In the beginning my MO at another world recognized US cancer hospital pointed me to MAYO saying he thought I live another 2 to 3 years if I went to MAYO.
Nothing is a sure bet, cancer is a tough opponent but I choose to give myself the best chance I can. I'm exceeding expectations.
Only as necessary, I've arranged treatment at two other hospitals with doctors there,
I spend half a year in FL and half a year in the Carolinas, Mayo directs my care and now they also do video appointments and have recently gone full steam ahead now with programs that mimic what I've been doing with MAYO now since 2017.
I chose to have a long 38 radiation treatment at my local hospital due to time frame involved.
But recently had SBRT at MAYO Rochester MN so I went there for scan, again for simulation, and back for 3 days of radiation.
I'll go back in February for PSMA scan to see results of radiation. In the meantime my other hospitals provide me with PSA blood tests. I send all results to MAYO.
When I was on ADT I got it where ever was most convenient.
Attached is my clinical history...After a very "successful" surgery my urologist (damn fine surgeon, PCA urologist, hmmm) reviewed the pathology report and went over his surgical notes, said "Kevin, this is an excellent pathology report, you won't have any "problems" in the future...I'm looking at the Mx and GS thinking hmm, that clinical data indicates a 30-40% chance of BCR!
Flash forward 15 months, same urologist, hesitates when seeing my PSA results, turns, and says "Kevin, this does not necessarily mean your PCa has returned..."
It's July 2016, 90 days after completing my SRT, my radiologist hesitates when seeing my PSA results, turns and says, that didn't work..
Keep in mind I had asked my urologist and radiologist should we include the entire PLN system and add short term ADT based on data emerging from Mayo and clinical trials, no they said, we don't have long term data...
So, now I go see the Director of Urology at the NCCN here in Kansas City, his resume was one that should inspire confidence. When I laid out my clinical history and asked if based in recent clinical trials, should I image, then consider triplet therapy...His answer, no, you have rising PSA, I would start you on ADT now (monotherapy) permanently.
I left (well, fired him) and went to see Kwon. I was intrigued by his approach, rather than sequential and progressive, each destined to fail, then death, combine treatments and bring them forward early in the disease.
So, what did that get me, well, 4-1/2 years off treatment. In 2017 Kwon's approach was not mainstream, today, well, my decision to do triplet therapy in 2017 was "right" (for me!).
I read TAs comments, not going to go there as I don't have have the training and education to dialogue. What I do know is Kwon for me was a "life ring" at a time when everyone else pretty much consigned me to monotherapy and failure, not to mention whatever lifetime that would be, of continuous treatment.
I've watched his videos, think they make sense in terms of the concepts and principles for aggressively fighting PCa,
I did not have my triplet therapy at Mayo since I talked my medical team here in Kansas City to doing the triplet therapy (no, not the NCCN guy, idiot, thought highly of himself). I did go back for updates and C11 Choline scans since at the time, outside of clinical trials, the current bevy of PSMA imaging was not available here.
As TA pointed out, there are other great urologists, oncologists. Also, doublet and triplet therapy are more mainstream clinical practice now.
I think if nothing else, it does not "hurt" to watch Kwon's videos, it can inform your discussions and shared decision making with your medical team as you balance quality and quantity of life, just saying.
Good points Kevin. As you know, Louis Pastor was once laughed at by his peers. Groupthink and medical parochialism is about 16 years from medical breakthrough to medical continuity adoption levels greater than 50% nationwide. media.mercola.com/ImageServ...
Thanks, very good feedback! My MO is still a bit on the sequential side, but I'm going to ask him about Kwon and put his nose in the combination treatment pot.
I have been seeing Dr Kwon for the last 4 years. I am very satisfied with the treatment I have received under his guidance. He does take an aggressive approach which is exactly what I wanted as a mid 50 year old Gleason 9 stage 4 patient. He is kind, patient, and humble yet well informed regarding available treatments. Dr Kwon helped me to get triplet therapy when it was not yet well accepted. Currently my PSA is undetectable and psma PET scans show no detected metastatic disease. I highly recommend him.
I started seeing Eugene in 2014. He is a fantastic guy and doc. He is very aggressive and definitely not a standard of care doc. He told me at my first visit he was "going to throw a nuclear bomb on an dandelion". And he did. He was dictating my oncology treatment to Dr Hugec at Minnesota Oncology. Dr Hugec admitted that "Eugene always right".
I was Gleason 9 with multiple mets and positive lymph nodes, crazy sick. Today I am PSA undetectable with all mets dormant. I moved to PHX and now at PHX Mayo and my docs there say we can credit him for still being alive today.
He even wrote him home ph number on the back of his card and told me to call him anytime.
I did 21 bags of chemo over a 2 year period. Did cryoablasion to kill tumors on my spine and ribs. Now been on Lupron/Xtandi for like 6 years. Brutal, but better than the alternative. Been alive long enough to welcome 2 grandkids into the world. The body is breaking down bigtime but the extra time is worth it.
Thanks for sharing… I have heard a lot of great reviews regarding Dr Bryce… it’s too bad he left…my husband sees Dr Singh for medical oncology and Dr Rwigema for radiation.
Of course it looks like he will mostly follow up with each doctor’s NPs
Wonderful news on your outcome with Dr. Keon. We are waiting for Dad’s biopsy results and expecting high Gleason as he has PC in his lymph nodes.
Dad is in NY. How did you see Dr. Kwon from AZ if I may ask? Is it a consultation and then the Mayo AZ folks work with him remotely?
I’m thinking about asking Dad if he is open to Mayo but trying to figure out logistics. He lives in NY. Does that mean Mayo patients move to MN temporarily or can you get a second opinion consultation and work from there.
We could explore AZ as I have a home close to Scottsdale and asking Dad if he’d consider Mayo AZ at least.
I started with Dr Kwon in 2014 in Rochester, saw him until 2018 when we moved to Phx and Mayo here. He is the best. But I’m sure there are places a lot closer so you’re not battling travel. I’m not sure if Mayo does initial patient consults.
My husband has been a patient of Dr.Kwon’s since 2019, when he became metastatic.
I’m not sure about the negative comments, but I am sharing our first hand experiences. He is cutting edge which can be controversial with insurance companies, since they don’t want to pay for things that are not standard of care. For example, when my husband had his first pelvic bone met, Dr Kwon and his team wanted to do targeted radiation treatment, which was not standard at the time. His team wrote letters and did peer to peer reviews with insurance using clinical studies and guidelines to get it covered. Today, most centers of excellence routinely use targeted therapies depending on the patient.
Additionally, his team has been using triplet therapy for years, which was often considered over treatment in the past, but now highly recommended widely for patients with certain features. Again, insurance didn’t like the “triple price” for additional therapies, but now pay. It is widely considered gold standard treatment.
We see Dr Kwon every 3 months. Regarding research, I can tell you he is very well versed. We spend ALOT of time discussing what is currently being studied and what trials have recently concluded. He considers himself a quarterback and routinely refers us to radiation oncology, medical onco, and other specialists for input. He often gets these other specialists on the phone with him while we are in the office with him, where we have a conversation about next steps between all of us. As others have mentioned, Dr Sartor is a world renowned oncologist specializing in prostate cancer, and he’s a great addition to the team at Mayo. Additionally, the top radiation and interventional oncologists routinely weigh in and explain the rationale behind the recommendations based on my husband’s situation.
Dr Kwon fights for his patient. When Mayo wanted payment up front for a psma scan not covered, he personally called the business office and told them “my patient needs this and we are doing it. Work it out.” And we got the scan while his team continued to fight with insurance which did 7 months later.
We have talked about the videos with Dr Kwon as well. They have been very helpful in giving us a framework for questions. He does NOT get paid for these videos and tells patients to go to their team with questions from the videos. He is not trying to get new patients…he’s extremely busy already. We have doctors at MD Anderson and Cleveland Clinic who have all corresponded with Dr Kwon and have supported the treatment course. They communicate regularly as we are not local to Mayo and get some treatment at home.
My husband has a very aggressive cancer (Gleason 9) with low psa and early age onset (52). As of today, he has no evidence of disease. Some may say Dr Kwon plays “whack-a-mole” by going after each spot as it pops up, but he says it’s disease control. My husband is now 58, works full time, and enjoys life. He has had periods of no treatment and periods of challenges, but never enough to miss work except for appointments.
Given that we are supposed to only relay first hand experience, I encourage you to listen only to those that really have experience with him. Those that have seen him can tell you his attention to clinical trials, up to date information, collaboration with other experts, and kindness. He had a large team that answer questions using data and compassion as well. I strongly recommend a consult if you can get in so you can come to your own conclusions.
I’m sending my very best wishes to you and feel free to message with any questions.
Thank you, that is great input! I haven't heard anyone who's actually seen him who doesn't like him. I see my MO on Wednesday and RO in January and will ask both about him.
It is definitely worth doing your own research. This is your life and it’s important to get info from reputable and unbiased sources. The docs at Cleveland clinic and MD Anderson initially pushed back (when we were doing things that were gold standard instead of standard of care). Now that we’ve had so many years of success, the one Dr told us that the reason he initially pushed back was because he knew insurance would deny things and didn’t want us to feel defeated. At many institutions, they don’t have the ability to spend a lot of time fighting with insurance companies and stick to standard of care. It’s so sad.
i visited Dr Kwon when i was searching for help with my diagnosis. He was very aggressive with a plan for me. Apparently he is in charge of that department at Mayo. If you listen to the videos on youtube you can get an idea of his treatments. I think its worth your time……
My father has been a patient of Dr. Kwon's for many years, and we have nothing but positive things to say about him as a person and as a physician. He's wonderful!!!
been seeing him for 9 years. He is very aggressive . Bills PSA didn’t go below 3 after surg.. was 5.5 when we got to Mayo. C11 choline found lymph in chest. Chemo, then 6 mo Lupron, zytiga, prednisone, then 37 radiation and meds then the meds for a year. Has been non detectable no evidence disease 7 years, no cancer meds or treatments 6 years. Quarterly PSA, see him yearly for review and pet scan. He is one of the top in the US. Often follows the PEACE 1 study. If your doc hasn’t heard of him, I’d seriously be thinking of finding a different doc especially since they are at sister facilities
He's incredible. Smart, aggressive and compassionate. He has seen more patients with recurrent prostate cancer than anyone in the world. Most importantly, he knows how to leverage the great Mayo team. I saw the top people at The University of Chicago and Northwestern. They were useless. Kwon knew what to do and so far I'm cancer free (after everyone else told me to take hormone treatment for life).
Based on personal experience (husband is a 5-year patient doing), I can confirm all the incredibly wonderful things that have been written here about Dr. Kwon. Very hard to actually describe his amazing qualities, on both a personal/human level as well as on a professional/physician level. He works closely with colleagues within Mayo, outside Mayo, even internationally...with the sole objective of designing the best treatment plan for his patient. He leverages his vast experience, technology, the intellect/experience of his peers, and the wide array of treatments available drive the best outcome for patients. He is also very clear to communicate what is known based on clinical trials and what is yet to be known/proven as the science is moving so rapidly. Early on, we had some very bad experiences at a couple of major cancer centers. I cannot speak highly enough of the outstanding care we have received from both Dr. Kwon as well as from the Mayo Clinic. It is very disappointing to see a poster write that Dr. Kwon "dupes" his patients. To insinuate that this tireless, self-sacrificing, humble, and brilliant physician tricks or deceives his patients is quite unbelievable and insulting. I also do not think he is in the business of "making YouTube videos" to "market" his theories. That is just an absurd statement. Rather, he gives of his time, talent, and experience as an invited guest speaker on a prominent prostate cancer support resource organization to help educate patients and caregivers as have many other wonderful prostate cancer physicians such as Dr. Tanya Dorff, Dr. Celestia Higano, Dr. Thomas Hope, and many others.
May God bless Dr. Kwon and all the other physicians, scientists, and medical professionals who are on the front line each and every day caring for patients and their families!
Note: I wish to offer my apologies if I offended anyone regarding my so-called humor about "race" or "misogyny". To me, humor is boundless and since we entered this word crying, I thought it would be a good idea to exit laughing.
In the past I have read a few negative comments about Dr. Eugene Kwon at Mayo Rochester and have wondered if the individual(s) making the negative comment or snide remarks have even met or been treated by Dr. Kwon. Insinuating Dr. Kwon is trying to market himself is absurd. Any videos Dr. Kwon makes is at the request of PCRI. They know he is the best in his field and they continually request he do a video or public appearance at their conference each year.
The man is brilliant, dedicated and works tirelessly for his patients. There is not a physician at Mayo Clinic that sees more patients in a week than Dr.Kwon and his staff. Patients from around the world seek his knowledge, guidance and care.
If you are fortunate enough to be seen by Dr. Eugene Kwon you know you have a fierce fighter in your corner and a friend that will be by your side during this difficult journey. The guy will never give up on you and he has more knowledge, grit and connections than any other urologist in the world!
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Finally Had First Treatment for Advanced Prostate Cancer
Durable remission? This is from 2014 and I feel like this Dr. From the Mayo Clinic is "ahead" of my Oncologist(s)
Update to Can't treat what we can't see
A general Thank You to this group
Choline PET scan
