Low carbs/keto: they could be useful

[Maxone73]

Just remember: keto diets are NOT high protein diets, they are very low in carbs, average-low in proteins, very very high in fats (esp. extra virgin olive oil, nuts,...)

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/353...

[KocoPr]

ah post this in Fight Prostate Cancer group for more targeted responses

[cashlessclay]

Here is another point of view.

mskcc.org/news/research-sho....

[StayingOptimistic in reply to cashlessclay]

Hi, I was just thinking about you a few days back. We had communicated a lot on the other site. How is your psa holding without any treatments?

[cashlessclay in reply to StayingOptimistic]

last PSA was 0.278, after 10.5 years on a 99% plant-based diet.

Cashless

[dhccpa in reply to cashlessclay]

Encouraging. Are you metastatic to bones?

[cashlessclay in reply to dhccpa]

I'm not metastatic to the bones.

Cashless

[dhccpa in reply to cashlessclay]

Great!

[TEBozo in reply to cashlessclay]

How has your weight and muscle mass respond to plant diet? No dairy?

[Maxone73]

Thanks!! we will know more soon hopefully!!

[maley2711]

For happiness, a good pie with coffee? Maybe some ice cream to top it off?

[maley2711]

Or they could not be?

[Maxone73]

All more than valid points, we will have the answers soon enough. But you could even have both: a keto diet based on plants. Personally I am 90% vegan, but would be good if they get some results from the various trials on different diets.

As for me, I have been exposed to mediterranean diet my whole life being italian and having a mother that still loves to cook and to work in the garden at almost 95 of age.

But of her 4 kids, I am the youngest (by far, my older bro is 18 years older than I) I am the only one that was not spared cancer, in spite of being the most active in sports with a past, and maybe a present (been asked to do it again) as personal trainer and natural bodybuilder, but you already know this part of my story. I know for a fact that training is the number one weapon we have (apart from the various therapies of course).

But the other part of my person (the AI researcher/matematician) knows very well what a "marginal gain" is. As in competitive sports, the difference from winning and losing is not huge but a sum of small margins. And I am not leaving any 0.2 % unattempted on the table even if it means going keto-vegan. As you know I am rather cautious with animal proteins supplements, excess of proteins and, lately, with creatine (till I get better info), but I have no problems integrating veg proteins in my diet.

Apart from that, I still enjoy a good complete meal once in a while, with one of the great wines of my area, with my closest friends (but had to lie to my mom about some diet I have to do for diabetes, as if she knew I got cancer she would go out of her mind).

[Kaliber in reply to Maxone73]

for 25 years before I was diagnosed, I was a “ hard core “ keto dieter for other health reasons. 50 carbs and 1000 calories a day. Mostly vegan.

Then I was DXed with pa’ve Mets , 1400 psa, hospice recommended. In my case I could wonder if those decades of keto caused / contributed to my aPCa. In my case , evidently it either had no effect or even caused / helped me to develop aPCa.

Just say’in

[Maxone73 in reply to Kaliber]

wow, 1000 Kcals per day???? It's hard enough to do a keto-vegan diet, but 1000 calories?

[Kaliber in reply to Maxone73]

Yea , no kidding. Eventually you get used to it and some imaginative cooking helps too. ( and some pills from down on the corner ) On keto, you still can snack on anything cheese or meat as much as you need and most things won’t run up your calorie count up all that. Frankly , for me, I don’t care about the calories all that much these days , but I “ still “ have to play the keep the blood sugar ( carbs ) down … stupid game.

[tunybgur]

PCa cells do consume lots of carbs to grow so limiting carbs is a sensible strategy, but tests have shown that calorie restriction is more effective.

PCa cells have ways of circumventing carb restriction by stealing carbs from other sources, but calories are more difficult to obtain, the problem is we need some calories to live.

I have advanced PCa, and tend to avoid simple carbs, sugar, pasta, rice, potatoes, bread, some sweet fruits, and most dairy. I max out on protein esp chicken, fish, eggs, soy drinks (unsweetened), beans and pulses, and lots of green veggies, esp cruciferous, and protein drinks etc.

The only exception I make is wholewheat bread, I do eat sandwiches and have a couple of slices every day, can't live without my chicken and avocado sarnies!

Good luck

[Graham49]

What diet is best for prostate cancer might be more to do with the resulting microbiome than whether it’s Keto, low carb or plant based. It is early days for research in this area, but so far it looks promising.

The Gut-Prostate Axis: A New Perspective of Prostate Cancer Biology through the Gut Microbiome

by Kazutoshi Fujita 1,*, Makoto Matsushita 2, Marco A. De Velasco 3ORCID, Koji Hatano 2, Takafumi Minami 1, Norio Nonomura 2 and Hirotsugu Uemura 1ORCID

1 Department of Urology, Kindai University Faculty of Medicine, Osakasayama 589-8511, Japan

2 Department of Urology, Osaka University Graduate School of Medicine, Suita 565-0871, Japan

3 Department of Genome Biology, Kindai University Faculty of Medicine, Osakasayama 589-8511, Japan

Cancers 2023, 15(5), 1375; doi.org/10.3390/cancers1505...

Received: 4 January 2023 / Revised: 3 February 2023 / Accepted: 20 February 2023 / Published: 21 February 2023

(This article belongs to the Special Issue Metastatic Prostate Cancer: Interaction with Tumors and Their Microenvironments)

Simple Summary

The gut microbiome plays important roles in the development of several diseases. The gut microbiome is a dynamic system that is affected by several factors, such as dietary habits, and since prostate cancer and diet are closely linked, it is reasonable to hypothesize that a gut microbiome—affected by diet—could regulate prostate cancer far from the gut, thus creating a gut-prostate axis. Gut dysbiosis result in the leakage of gut bacterial metabolites, such as short-chain fatty acids and lipopolysaccharide into the systemic circulation, leading to the prostate cancer growth. Patients with prostate cancer have a distinct gut microbiome. Furthermore, the gut microbiome produces androgen, affecting castration-resistance of prostate cancer. The gut-prostate axis could be a new target for the prevention and management of human prostate cancer.

Abstract

Obesity and a high-fat diet are risk factors associated with prostate cancer, and lifestyle, especially diet, impacts the gut microbiome. The gut microbiome plays important roles in the development of several diseases, such as Alzheimer’s disease, rheumatoid arthritis, and colon cancer. The analysis of feces from patients with prostate cancer by 16S rRNA sequencing has uncovered various associations between altered gut microbiomes and prostate cancer. Gut dysbiosis caused by the leakage of gut bacterial metabolites, such as short-chain fatty acids and lipopolysaccharide results in prostate cancer growth. Gut microbiota also play a role in the metabolism of androgen which could affect castration-resistant prostate cancer. Moreover, men with high-risk prostate cancer share a specific gut microbiome and treatments such as androgen-deprivation therapy alter the gut microbiome in a manner that favors prostate cancer growth. Thus, implementing interventions aiming to modify lifestyle or altering the gut microbiome with prebiotics or probiotics may curtail the development of prostate cancer. From this perspective, the “Gut–Prostate Axis” plays a fundamental bidirectional role in prostate cancer biology and should be considered when screening and treating prostate cancer patients.

[Maxone73 in reply to Graham49]

AH! I am with you with that. Fermented vegetables, pomegranate fruit and juice and so on. I am doing it. I forgot to say it before but yes, our immune system is very important and it's located mainly in our gut.

[Graham49 in reply to Maxone73]

I am a bit dubious about the juice. High in sugar and low in fibre could feed the wrong types of bacteria in your gut.

[Maxone73 in reply to Graham49]

It's fresh juice, no sugar. I buy it at the supermarket but they have to store it in the fridge. It does not taste good and it gets even worse after few days (I have pomegranates on a tree outside the door, but not all year round)

[glgr in reply to Graham49]

Great info. Thanks!

[Maxone73]

Some are high in heavy metals, correct. Of course it also depends on the primary source. But when I read about whey (I will soon post something about it) there are studies that say they may help...other studies that say that they promote dissemination of metastasis. Glutathione is a double sword they say, but I still have to study it to balance the good and the bad. I suppose in the meantime a modest integration of whey would not hurt.

[Maxone73]

No, I think the one you sent was about creatine and metastasis. I am trying to play by the book....while there is no book! (apart from the obvious)