Milk thistle: it gives me headache (figuratively)

[Maxone73]

Hi warriors!

Since I am doing chemo and chemo impacts on the liver (not only of course), I thought it would be a good idea to help my liver with Milk thistle extract (silymarin), once per day 240mg. I had two chemo sessions and luckily between the two sessions both my white cells count and liver functionalities seem to have recovered at 100% and are in the normal range.

But you know, SE are cumulative, so I thought it would be a good idea to help my liver, at least till I am done with chemo.

Now I find out that milk thistle promotes prolactin (well, its name kind of gives it away!). And some say that prolactin is the second PCa fuel after testosterone!

Yes, today work is slow and I have nothing better to do than hit my head against the wall on these questions!

[KocoPr]

post this in fight Prostate cancer group and they will have something for you on this

[Soumen79]

I had 10 chemos, I dare say, SE s will accumulate but if they will not go out of range if your first session happens that way. You will get more intense version of same side effects that you are getting first time, generally speaking.

One of my doctor friend suggested raw curcumin (eatable form, not medicinal form) for liver. My liver literally did not budge.

One advice, when you take chemo try to visualise the trauma of cancer cells and rejoice, in other word accept this cytotoxic friend of yours wholeheartedly.

Stay blessed.

[Maxone73 in reply to Soumen79]

Thanks!! I take also curcumin but I stop before chemo and restart a couple of days later. The fact is that the first chemo gave me zero side effects. The second one made me lose my beard, not a big deal. After 3-4 days I felt some numbness at the tip of my fingers that now (exactly 7 days from chemo) is gone. We will see what happens with the third on the 9th of November.

[HikerWife in reply to Maxone73]

Please consider icing your hands and feet! My husband had no signs of neuropathy from his chemo, and I have read that many others who iced also had good results. It constricts blood vessels and allows less toxicity to reach the area. Neuropathy is often permanent.

[Maxone73 in reply to HikerWife]

Only for that hour or so?

[HikerWife in reply to Maxone73]

Lots of info online and on this site. You want to ice starting about 15 min before infusion begins, and for about the same afterward. Sucking on ice ships throughout helps prevent mouth sores (my husband had no issues - you will need a helper though). Also good to walk around for a bit after your infusion - at least 15 min. Gets the blood circulating and disperses chemo drugs. Last but not least, drink a lot of water before and after.

[Maxone73 in reply to HikerWife]

Water and walking are not a prob. Actually they give you even food if you want (we are in Italy after all and food is always the solution!). I have found fasting to help me a lot to recover quickly. I have chemo on thursday, the next day I workout as usual (but I am still under cortisone), and on saturday I workout again with no problem (first day without cortisone), on sunday I rest as much as I can (seeing friends and so on but always relaxed and not for many hours) because that's where I start to feel the fatigue, which is normally gone by monday or tuesday. This finger thing tends to happen after one week, it's not painful but it bothers me as I am a musician. If I exercise my fingers on scales and play some music I must say that my fingers feel lots better afterwards, but that ice thing is worth a try!

[spencoid2 in reply to Maxone73]

my side effects were highly variable and did not necessarily increase over the 10 sessions. please take peripheral neuropathy seriously and ice your hands and feet. i did it with cold packs which were are real pain to deal with. others on this forum suggested plain old ice in bags which i what i would have done if i knew. i have a tiny bit of lingering neuropathy and am glad it is not worse

[Tall_Allen]

Since you have no idea what the interactions might be, I think it is a bad idea. At least let your oncologist know.

[Maxone73 in reply to Tall_Allen]

Hi! I did, he does not seem to think that such supplements could interfere with the therapy. But since I am more scared that he is, I take nothing 2 days prior and 3 days after the chemo, to be sure I have more than reached its half life. The only thing I do 48 hours before till 24 hours after chemo is to eat very very little calories, especially from carbs.

[Soumen79 in reply to Maxone73]

Agreed with TA, hence I am also against supplementing it, only food form, and you are doing correct, my chemo fatigue used to stay for 3-4 days, I did not take any curcumin on those days.For peripheral neuropathy you are starting to experience there is a lot of discussion about using ice bag at the time of transfusion, I did not know that at my time. My view is since ice pack is totally external should not do any bad for you, but may save you from neuropathy.

[85745]

Not a fan of mt, for liver detox and cancer cell die off, I take Tudca, Pecta sol and Zeolite also Spirulina/ Chlorella tablets. Also Magnesium Citrate important . Detox- Detox- Detox

[tunybgur]

Hi Max,

I have done a lot of research into various natural remedies since my PCa diagnoses and Milk Thistle is shown to have mostly anti tumour properties....e.g.

urology.ucsf.edu/sites/urol...

Milk Thistle

• Preliminary research (in vitro and in vivo studies only) suggest that components in milk thistle,

silymarin and silibinin, inhibit growth and apoptosis of prostate cancer cells [331-337].

• Silibinin has also been found to show protective efficacy against angiogenesis and late stage

metastasis [336-337].

➤ The mechanism of action is still to be determined, but may be related to the inhibition of the

IGF-I pathway [332, 335, 338].

This is just one example but there are a few more, however since your post I have done further research and prolactin is certainly not desirable anywhere near PCa cells.....shows you have to careful.

What are SE's

[Maxone73 in reply to tunybgur]

Thanks! I wish we had more clinical studies but at the dosages I normally use I should not harm the treatment and give some help to my liver, you never know!

[j-o-h-n]

Wouldn't be a bad idea to shove a few ice packs down the front of your trousers/pajamas now and then, and stiffen up the ole shillelagh... eh? Could end up putting out the fire with some cold in the hole...

Just humor to help get rid of your thistle in you whistle.... As I've said before.... what do you want? The comedy writers are still out on strike.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 10/27/2023 8:14 PM DST

[Maxone73 in reply to j-o-h-n]

you know nothing about pizza but you are never short of humour! 😂😂😂👍👍👍

[Maxone73]

I have no idea if it's an issue or not, that's the problem

[Maxone73]

All I have found about this relies on some individual case from Dr Costello (published on some non peer reviewed journal) and something from the 80es. But I would imagine that if it’s a known mechanism I would find more!