Sweating like a pig

[Tracy99]

Hi, all, is it me or for everyone with prostate cancer, everytime I do a bit of exertions, walking, doing housework, gardening, I get absolutely drenched in sweat, mostly the face and neck, by the way I went the doctors recently and was prescribed viagra, not touched them, still in the packet as worried with all this sweating, I will combust!

[JohnInTheMiddle]

When I come back from a very brisk walk, I will be drenched. But then I'm on ADT for metastatic prostate cancer. Which ADT are you on? As far as I can tell, I don't think you're metastatic yet, thank G-d? 😀

[Tracy99 in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

Hi,I had or have stage 2, followed with 5 rounds of radiotherapy in May, have to wait until December to discover If psa has fallen?

[GP24]

This is caused by a lack of estrogens. Add estrogens and these side effects will be mitigated.

ec.bioscientifica.com/view/...

Side effects caused by the lack of testosterone and estrogen

[Tracy99 in reply to GP24]

Hi,Thanks for your suggestion, some people have said estrogen could have a negative effect on the prostate? Am not disagreeing with using estrogen but maybe I will call the macmillian nurse and see what she says?

[JohnInTheMiddle in reply to GP24]

GP super thanks for the share - at some point this should be our main comment.

The topic is transdermal estradiol, which is one of the four natural forms of estrogen. I am looking into this now, as an adjunct therapy via a patch.

With ADT not only is testosterone suppressed, but also all the cortisone-related hormones (for which we take prednisone), but also estrogen. We don't talk about this so much.

The suppression of estrogen is related especially to bone loss and osteoporosis.

Reading all about estradiol is confusing - because it is theorized as a full-on ADT therapy on its own - but what I'm interested in is estradiol just as an adjunct therapy just to allow the little bit of estrogen that the male system needs.

Here's an aside - this had been looked at some years ago and there was very bad cardiovascular disease side effects. This seems to have been completely solved now by the transdermal patch where the estradiol is not metabolized by the liver, but goes directly into the bloodstream.

[Tracy99 in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

Thats interesting, can you purchase the patches?

[JohnInTheMiddle in reply to Tracy99]

First, in terms of background there is more research available. Particularly there is a lot of research in the articles stemming from the ongoing "Patch" study, which is a high quality clinical study.

And then there's the question of the confusion - which I mentioned above. It's not always clear when reading the articles whether they're talking about using E2, AKA estradiol, as a full-on replacement for whatever version of ADT you're using now - or as an adjunct and complementary therapy for the purposes of just restoring lost estrogen. And in this case you would be apparently continuing on with whatever ADT you are already on.

There's no place that I'm aware of, and I have not done a thorough search, where this is standard of care.

However estrogen patches are widely available for prescription for women. I am aware that some men have persuaded their physician to prescribe it for them.

And I suppose the argument is that a man also needs estrogen, although obviously not in the same amounts as women, but nevertheless they are in a position of experiencing the negative effects of low estrogen. The fact that low estrogen is caused by ADT is kind of irrelevant.

Given that anyone who wants to explore this is on the frontier, even if this is a super-researched and understood frontier, one would have to be careful about establishing dosages and stuff. Also by the way the estradiol can be applied as a cream. And then you have to calculate how often and how many square inches etc.

It would be great to have Tall_Allen comment on this.

P.S. - Recall that we are not just talking about hot flashes here, but also very significantly about osteoporosis. This is my motivation to explore this.

P.S. Regarding the ADT effect itself, it seems there are some questions about long-term viability. One is then into the question of statistics and population evolution. One should be cautious.

[Tracy99 in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

A good read and very interesting Thank you

[ARIES29 in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

There have been many comments here on the T2 patch & Estradiol gel 17B. It seems it can take the place of ADT without the SE.

One would have to wonder why it is not prescribed by MO.

[JohnInTheMiddle in reply to ARIES29]

Concerning the question of E2 or Estradiol as a full-on replacement for current ADT therapies, one is now way beyond the frontier.

There are no studies, and even the theory is not fully developed. There are also some concerns that using E2 as full on ADT will not turn out well, for complex reasons related to cell populations that have different characteristics.

To emphasize, my note above concerns E2 as an adjunct therapy only - which leaves today's main ADT therapies in place.

[ARIES29 in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

Yes I can see the concern for the unknown but I will be taking E2 & dropping ADT for the time being as others have had success with it. Hopefully PSA comes down to 0.1.

[Chrisbaird]

I’m very similar on H T 4x monthly injections… especially summer months I sweat for 2mins heavily then it’s over maybe every 2 hours + badly in the night was told to try sage tablets after trying cider vinegar tablets

[Tracy99]

I've heard of them, may try out, thanks

[Benkaymel in reply to Tracy99]

You can also try Evening primrose oil capsules for the hot flushes.

[Tracy99 in reply to Benkaymel]

I've ordered evening primrose today, hopefully they work before I go to Spain in a couple of weeks

[Parlorman]

I’m 19 months into ADT following RP and 38 rounds of radiation. I have trouble regulating my body temperature in general. Sometimes I’m shivering in a 72 degree room and a couple hours later I’m sweating buckets in the same room.

[Tracy99 in reply to Parlorman]

I thought I got it bad, so sorry it must be awfull for you

[SteveTheJ]

Doesn't happen to me. It could be unrelated to your therapy.

[Tracy99 in reply to SteveTheJ]

I went to doctors last week, she checked my blood pressure, said was OK, but didn't seem to bother about the sweating nor gave me anything to alleviate it

[TylexGP]

I noticed two types of sweating. The annoying hot flashes and sweating on exertion. The hot flashes are annoying but tolerable. Sweating on exertion was like turning on a faucet while on ADT and Abi and pred. I would be drenched in a minute. I have been off all ADT since end of May. Some slight improvement but still have castrate level T and sweat more then before ADT.

[Tracy99 in reply to TylexGP]

I began sweating of a night soon after my radiotherapy but that has stopped, its more of a day, drinking tea or coffee or doing the slightest physical activity, having a towel in hand

[jmarsh in reply to TylexGP]

Almost identical experience to TylexGP. Still on ADT for at least 9 mos. Hope all will subside afterwards, but I am trying to keep expectations curbed.

[j-o-h-n]

Note: Pigs don't sweat........

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 09/11/2023 12:50 PM - Remember

[GSDF in reply to j-o-h-n]

nor do hippos or rhinos 😐

[j-o-h-n in reply to GSDF]

dammit....... now you tell me......(hey Marge cancel the Hip and Rhi order)....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 09/11/2023 2:39 PM - Remember

[Tracy99 in reply to GSDF]

Unless you can touch one

[Tracy99 in reply to j-o-h-n]

They do in my greenhouse

[j-o-h-n in reply to Tracy99]

Tracy99,,,,,, Don't tell me you're growing pigs, hippos, and rhinos in your greenhouse. Doesn't leave room for the weed!!!

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 09/11/2023 3:24 PM DST - Remember

[Tracy99 in reply to j-o-h-n]

I smoke the crap they pump out 🤪

[j-o-h-n in reply to Tracy99]

C'mon now, you're shitting me.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 09/11/2023 5:27 PM DST - Remember

[Tracy99 in reply to j-o-h-n]

Am a scouser!! Naturally funny 😁

[j-o-h-n in reply to Tracy99]

Naw..... you're a Brit who likes to smoke shit................

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 09/11/2023 6:04 PM DST - Remember

[GSDF]

Happens to me too, but only during hot flashes...

[SpencerBoy11]

Been on an ADT vacation now over 2 mos and still having about the same number and depth of hot flashes. Ladies with give you sympathy when you share with them.

[Tracy99 in reply to SpencerBoy11]

I concur, it's a bit like the man flu, ladies laugh once we mention hot flashes or a cold, we men need empathy 😀

[Mascouche]

My body behaved in pretty much the opposite way from yours while I was under testosterone blocker. While taking ADT, I did have hot flushes in the beginning, mostly at night, but when exerting myself, I found that I did not sweat as much as used to. I am now off ADT since May of this year, I am starting to sweat like I used to. Guess we are all different.

[Tracy99]

I hope we are? In tbe days after radio therapy I had nights sweats but they seem to have gone, it's mainly my face and neck that get drenched, maybe it's the red wine am getting through on my nights off?

[Bodysculpture]

Welcome to the club On hot days I have what we call a poor man's air conditioner

A face towel submerged in ice and water

Let it rest

Squeeze the excess water our and drape it over the back of the neck

Not your head!!!!

It brings relief fast

And you can repeat it as many times as you want

Always works for me I drive around with my AC in the trunk

In a cooler at work and at the gym

[Benkaymel]

A personal mini fan is cheap and effective.

[JohnInTheMiddle]

I'm curious if everyone who reports intolerable ADT related hot flashes here is on an GnRH agonist - such as Lupron/Eligard etc.?I'm on Firmagon/Degarelix, a GnRH antagonist. I don't have hot flashes. Probably I have a little heat sensitivity and sometimes sweat, but it's no big deal. For my 28-day injections I spend a large part of 36 hours in bed with shivers and fever at the same time. And then I get up and go above my business. (I realize that some people have worse side effects with this.)