Elevated Body Mass Index Is Associated with Improved Overall Survival

[Ahk1]

never seen a study to suggest that high BMI is useful.

urotoday.com/recent-abstrac...

[treedown]

Its good to know if going on RLT, but it appears they were only comparing high BMI to sarcopenia so no in between right?

[GeorgeGlass in reply to treedown]

Really?! Typical worthless study. No common sense to many of these observational reports. I made an observation just now, don't have a high BMI or sarcopenia.

[Stevecavill in reply to treedown]

no, they definitely compared to normal BMI

[Boywonder56]

I like what my aunt said since I'm about 40 lb heavier than when I was at diagnosis it'll give you more to fight it with when the s*** hits the fan

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to Boywonder56]

Brother Kal and I feel the same way. I recently had unchecked PC progression and bad SE's and lost 20+ pounds of the extra 40 pounds I had on me. Glad I had some extra to work with.

[Kaliber in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

yep ….. when diagnosed I was shedding about 17 pounds a week, every single week . I had bags of wrinkled loose skin hanging on me. Ghoulish appearance . Weight ( and I wasn’t overweight when it started ) dropping like a rock. It was pretty alarming. The first couple - three months on ADT, Lupron, Xtandi … my weight shot up over 70 pounds and me on a keto diet ( not on one now ) Now I’m a big blob of central fat with totally trashed , muscle mass missing , thin arms and legs sticking out. Humpty dumptyish Yayahahahaya. . Both my wife and oncologist pretty much great with it. Wife says if the plummeting weight thing happens again …. The extra weight might give me several more weeks of life. Oncologist in same boat. Oddly , no matter if I eat a lot of regular food ( and my bg skyrockets ) or stay keto ( and my bg is well managed ) …my weight measures exactly the same , every visit to Kaiser. Hasn’t changed +/- 3/4 pounds in about 46 consecutive months.

Longevity wise , dunno if its related , but Ive stunned my entire table of doctors that I’m still alive … sometimes they show me off to other docs ( like a freak show ) that ask me a lot of questions. I don’t see how someone could draw a correlation without a lot of studies and number crunching.

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to Kaliber]

I know where you be comin from. I've been 40 pounds consistent over my last healthy weight but I had that big loss of weight too of about 40 pounds in the months or so before my diagnosis so really if you look at where I started from 40 pounds in the hole I actually gained 80 pounds once I got Lupron and chemo initially 3 1/2 years ago.

[Kaliber in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

after a cancer wasting away scare , boy a little extra heft is reassuring.

❤️❤️❤️

[GeorgeGlass in reply to Kaliber]

The problem with carrying extra weight in the mid-section, is that it significantly increases a chance of heart disease. I'm amazed that anyone can gain weight while on ADT.

[Carlosbach in reply to Kaliber]

After diagnosis I worked hard and lost a lot of weight, but I could still lose more. Both my primary care and onco have advised me to not wory so much about weight loss, just focus on fitness and weight lifting. Both expect that a time will come where having the extra weight will help me in future rounds of treatment. Don't know if that's true, but i don't obsess so much about having a sundae with my grandkids - so I feel better.

[Seebs9 in reply to Kaliber]

Im in the same boat!

[Purple-Bike in reply to Kaliber]

Keep up the fight, Kaliber, keep freaking them out. My toast to you.

[Kaliber in reply to Purple-Bike]

even when this stuff snatches my a$$ , there’ll probably still be some static electricity that jumped out of my head …. Still out there fighting and shocking people , making lint stick to your shirt. yayahahahaya.

Just say’in

😂😂😂

[Baldylocks in reply to Boywonder56]

gave me a belly laugh my friend, thanks

[Kaliber in reply to Baldylocks]

yayahahahaya yayahahahaya 😂😂😂

[6x942]

I'll have another beer to go with my potato chips and dip. Oh, and what ice cream flavors are available?

[j-o-h-n in reply to 6x942]

Chocolate chip chip cream (two scoops)....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 06/24/2023 7:47 PM DST

Last edited by j-o-h-n

[Kaliber in reply to j-o-h-n]

I want some …

😂😂😂

[lincolnj8 in reply to j-o-h-n]

Oh Yeh, chocolate chip at least 2 scoops

[EdBar]

They were comparing it to Sarcopenia not to someone who maintains general fitness and eats a healthy diet. I find it hard to believe that someone who is on ADT which has its share of cardiovascular risks would actually benefit from being overweight.

Ed

[dhccpa in reply to EdBar]

Agreed but I'm a member of the choir.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to EdBar]

totally, I didn't even think it was possible to carry a lot of extra weight, while on ADT, unless someone just ate junk food all day.

[Kaliber in reply to GeorgeGlass]

I have to eat a strict keto diet ( 50 carbs, 1000 calories ) every day …. this to keep my medication induced high bg under control. I haven’t gained or shed a pound of my extra 70 lbs in over 40 months . Guess different people are different.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to Kaliber]

I suppose it comes down to whether you want to lose the 70 lbs or not. That would improve mobility and activity capability, but if you're not interested in those, then you can just stay where you are. I think you would have to do a functional medicine doctor directed fast program, IF you wanted to lower BG and other markers. Either way, best outcomes to ya.

[Kaliber in reply to GeorgeGlass]

thanks for your thoughts big guy , I appreciate you taking time to post this. I’ve brought my daily bg down from 400+ ( caused by my body’s reaction to my adt meds, it’s diagnosed “ medication induced diabetes “ on my records. ) …down to 93 nadir today , for example , and my peak of 165. I measure 2X a day. I take two kinds of bg meds , the max possible without insulin. My pcp likes anything under 200 but I do better than that. I keto diet as well. Without keto, it jumps up quickly. I’m 77 and prehospice , Kaiser doesn’t even remotely consider insulin over age 75.

I’ve been overweight for decades and spent 25 years going to weight mgt clinics downtown. I was a svelte 220 lbs during those years. It takes extreme means for me to get thin and stay there. My metabolism has been whacked forever.

My cardiac is walking a very thin edge nowadays ( also DXed as mostly adt sourced ) . I have to avoid as much physical- body system stress as possible. My situation is that Kaiser is keeping me as comfortable as possible , giving me a med to help prevent strokes , trying to stretch out my survival as best they can. Expectations are that I can just drop anytime , 50% likelihood it will be a heart attack, 18% likelihood it’ll be a stroke they say. I’ve lasted 55 months past their expectations and I plan to keep on keeping on. They are in watching and waiting mode … we don’t discuss anything except if I’m trying to get my affairs in order and spending time with loved ones. I see them once a year. We don’t talk medical anymore. My pcp is the junk yard dog that watches me … yayahahahaya.

❤️❤️❤️

[Nfler in reply to GeorgeGlass]

yes just about everyone gains weight when they’re on adt. It shuts down one’s test n metabolism…

[GeorgeGlass in reply to Nfler]

hmm, It caused me to lose weight. Granted, I changed to a much healthier diet, and went from 200 down to 184, and alot of that was muscle. But then I switched from Lupron to Orgovyx and I went from 184 down to 170. There was a little bit of fasting built into that but not a lot. I've stayed around 172 for a year or so. This is where I was in 10th grade. I'm not sure if this is the best weight for me. I know that I look better in the 180s.

[RMontana]

Yes. Being emaciated would not be linked to good outcomes with most diseases, PCa included. Here is the first sentence of the study;

ART : “In patients with prostate cancer scheduled for systemic treatment, being overweight is linked to prolonged overall survival (OS), whereas sarcopenia is associated with shorter OS.”

Here is the diagnosis for sarcopenia ;

Healthline; “Sarcopenia is the loss of muscle mass specifically related to aging. It’s normal to lose some muscle mass as you age. However, sarcopenia describes severe muscle loss that strays from the norm.”

Gets better. WHAT are the causes for severe muscle loss?

Healthline; “a lowering of your hormone levels.”

Bingo! What do u think the odds are that these patients were on ADT treatment? 100% and many for years. So what does the study recommend as a treatment? Get fat! But what is the treatment for sarcopenia? Exercise!

Healthline; “Lack of activity is the most common reason behind this condition. Therefore, being physically active may lessen your chances of getting sarcopenia. Just half an hour of moderate exercise each day, like walking or jogging, will help keep your system working and fit.”

Last, supplements can help.

Healthline; “Supplements have also proven useful in the prevention of sarcopenia. Some include:creatine, for increasing and maintaining muscle massvitamin D, for maintaining bone and muscle tissueswhey protein, to help preserve body mass.”

Muscle mass NOT fat composition is key to OS and improved all cause mortality. Just 15 Lbs of extra muscle doubles your OS after age 70. See my earlier post;

ART; healthunlocked.com/active-s...

I guess obesity is better than sarcopenia when going into PCa treatment. Being fit, with good muscle mass is better. This study is missing that comparison, and in my opinion does more harm than good. Rick

[dhccpa in reply to RMontana]

Yes, that seems misleading (the study report).

[London441 in reply to RMontana]

Thanks Rick, for saving me the time to comment. Everything I would have said, and well put.

[Baldylocks in reply to London441]

hmm?

[GeorgeGlass in reply to RMontana]

Right on, Big Sky.

[Hidden]

Fiction

[Baldylocks in reply to Hidden]

hmm?

[Baldylocks in reply to Hidden]

hmm?

[Baldylocks]

I’m thinking on this one and the responses it’s provoked. As Arnold said, “I’ll be back”

[London441]

Some will read into this that extra fat in general is a good plan. Simplistic to the max, and in that context indeed fiction.

[j-o-h-n]

youtube.com/watch?v=t2mU6US...(Not working as expected?)

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 06/24/2023 7:28 PM DST

[j-o-h-n]

My doctor says "you're not fat, you're just 4 feet two short"...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 06/24/2023 7:33 PM DST

[dockam]

Over 8 years on Lupron and I'm like 132 lbs - yikes. BMI around 20youtu.be/kdqyG3CcoLM(Not working as expected?)

Still upright tho, and can

youtu.be/veUo1Jf-rkU(Not working as expected?)

Hikin on, QoLing on

Randy 🤣

[GeorgeGlass in reply to dockam]

130, what is your height? what was your eight before the lupron was started?

[dockam in reply to GeorgeGlass]

I'm 5'9 and I believe that I was 150ish lbs back then, I hit 165 during in 2015 amidst treatments. But, I'm way more active now tryna stave off fat gain/sarcopenia/cardiac issues from ADT. I still do 16 hr Intermittent Fasting also😂

Rock on

[GeorgeGlass in reply to dockam]

are you taking a 2nd line AR, like Zytiga, Nubeqa or Xtandi? I cant do my 16 hour fasting anymore because I have to take food with the nubeqa, 12 hours apart. I was 200 pounds and muscular/athletic. Now I am 172.

[dockam in reply to GeorgeGlass]

Back on Abiraterone, it failed after 9 months in 2020 and this time with dexamethasone. Xtandi failed in 3 months at end of 202

[GeorgeGlass in reply to dockam]

I hope the combo helps you more this time. Try eating some buffalo meat from WildIdea Bison online delivery company. It's a high quality meat. Might get you a few good pounds, and get you up into the 140s.

[Baldylocks in reply to GeorgeGlass]

this was a surprising suggestion. I’ve been eating bison now for thirty plus years in favor over beef and have found it much lower in fat and healthier and nearly impossible to gain weight on especially if active. as I read and follow the many of you it seems the answers we seek are as varied as each our problems. I’m unwilling to dismiss any med, any study because in them may be the answer for one of us, then another. None of us certainly would have faired so well sixty years ago. Keep the hope going and there is no great cost to any of us for encouragement.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to Baldylocks]

I like your thoughts and your attitude. We are all struggling in ways, mentally and physically. It helps to have shared knowledge, which provides hope, and a little boost to make us happier and more active. You certainly have one of the best "handles" on this site. It may not be, Charlie Tuna but Baldylocks is a heck more creative and amusing. I think we would just have to eat more of the buffalo. It's hard to gain any weight when eating mostly plants but if I keep weightlifting, I should be able to maintain my weight and my semi-decent appearance.

[Baldylocks in reply to GeorgeGlass]

feels like a blue ribbon might be in order for your sense of humor brother. We can never get enough humor in this life so please stay the course.

[Stevecavill]

they do compare to normal BMI, not just sracopenia. BUT the data is purely in relation to PSMA radioligand therapy, not prostate cancer treatment in general, which is an important consideration. So it’s important to include the WHOLE title in the heading of the post!

[GeorgeGlass in reply to Stevecavill]

Any highlights from the PSMA ligand therapy findings?

[Stevecavill in reply to GeorgeGlass]

I only read the abstract. But it suggests a benefit of starting with higher body fat before the radio ligand therapy (I assume they mean Lutetium), but research is required to explain why that would be helpful

[Baldylocks]

I left this conversation a week ago needing time to think further on what I was reading. I confess that I’ve not been blessed with anymore clarity than when I left but I’ve come to think it possible the many opinions carry their own weight in correctness and workable solutions for some and some not. Research, consult and then put your best decision making tools to work.

[Radars in reply to Baldylocks]

will sarms be safe to try and gain weight.