update on Heidelberg

[Grommi]

After a long bureaucratic battle with Insurance and clinic, we have the assurance that TRICARE for life pays for the Proton radiation. Proton is based on hydrogen and will be applied 19 times, with 2 Gy. My husband participates in a Study which is called PAROS Studie. On January 13 he starts this procedure and has to fill out paper work about his condition, feeling etc. in a routine matter. We are glad to have this opportunity because Proton is known as a mild radiation which does not harm the organs next to the tumor. If you are interested, I will keep you update. The cost is rather high but still lower than in America. Greetings from Germany

[Justfor_]

You will get a number of posts claiming that proton and photon irradiations are "equal" in all respects but cost. Well, take it with a grain of salt.

[Grommi in reply to Justfor_]

thank you

[Tall_Allen]

There has never been anything showing proton is better in side effects than X-rays. In spite of "true believers" who, without any clinical evidence, say it is better. They have to pay off their very expensive investment in proton cyclotrons, so they are afraid to do comparative trials. In fact, the best clinical evidence we have is showing them to be equal. Remember the Braggs Peak Effect is only theoretical. In practice, protons generate secondary particles beyond the treatment area and are diffracted by the edge of the nozzle:

prostatecancer.news/2016/08...

That said, Heidelberg has a Carbon Ion Beam therapy center. I am prepared to believe that it may be superior.

[Grommi in reply to Tall_Allen]

thank you for the info. They have sent studies they did on 897 patients in several centers in Germany. The 18 Radiations with Photon and the 18 Radiations with Proton are equally successful. But they noticed that the life quality of the patients differ slightly, where as the Proton patients had less problems. The study on the therapy with 35 radiations is still ongoing. They never mentioned the Carbon Ion Beam Therapy, may this is not part of the Heidelberg clinic.

[Tall_Allen in reply to Grommi]

carbon ion is definitely in Heidelberg. Ask for it.

[Grommi in reply to Tall_Allen]

thank you

[Cooolone in reply to Tall_Allen]

The link provided is a 2016 post with data tracked over 5 years meaning treatment results from 2011 therapies. Is there any more recent data updates than from 11 years ago? Only ask because the velocity of therapy and treatment progression and today's applications are moving at such a quicker pace, wider field so to say ... Is difficult to absorb data from so long ago even though that is the norm.

Appreciate the info nonetheless.

[Tall_Allen in reply to Cooolone]

Nothing with more than 5 years of follow-up, and no randomized comparisons. Proton advocates are understandably hesitant to do comparative studies. UF has a trial with results expected in 2026. Heidelberg has a much smaller study that they haven't yet published.

[Cooolone in reply to Tall_Allen]

Yeah, I couldn't find much more recent data in regard to Proton use...

Thank you.

[lowT163 in reply to Tall_Allen]

I picked up the phone and called the radiation department of MD Aanderson and asked them what I needed. They said come on down and sent me to Proton obviously having both available. Don’t think there are any promises either way.

[Tall_Allen in reply to lowT163]

They have a big investment to repay.

[lowT163]

when I was there they were old but they just finished tying a new building on and adding more units. Making a lot of money but mostly lung and head and neck patients. Us prostate guys started at 4:30am(me) until 7:30am then started back up around 6pm until 1:30 am.

All the good spots were for the kids with tumors in sensitive places. The pitch was that they could hit a tumor next to organs or brain tissue and not hurt the vital stuff. I saw a lot of bad things happening to some young people. I hope it works for them.

I just want my testosterone back they burned up. Still too big of a coward to start the supplement.

[Fightinghard]

proton sounds like a better option, but studies have not shown significant differences in results compared to IMART radiation.

The proton option is usually more expensive

[Grommi in reply to Fightinghard]

I know one person who had proton, she had breast cancer, she had no issues, everything went well. We hope that this will be the case wit my husband

[Fightinghard in reply to Grommi]

i hope it will help him. Either method can work

[Grommi in reply to Fightinghard]

thank you