Well I’d thought I’d throw another log on the fire since my last post seemed to elicit a lot of interest and discussion. I went back in my files and dug up a pretty comprehensive video by Snuffy on why and how to use Metformin. I’m not advocating its use, I’m not a doctor so I’m not qualified to do that. I’m just sharing information on a drug I’ve been using and my personal experience with it.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg9RB...
Ed
It was one of the many times he was proved wrong (at least it seems so so far). I admire the guy for bringing up testable hypotheses, though. That's the way science works!
Well, here's another bit of science. Metformin controls sugar and insulin. PCa goes (in most cases) with metabolic disease, insulin resistance etc. Its cheap and few side effects. On the basis of logic alone there is a very large prima facie case for men with PCa to take it for those reasons alone. Anyone with PCa needs to watch insulin and sugar.
" PCa goes (in most cases) with metabolic disease, insulin resistance etc. " where did you find that information/study?
Its in the bloody textbooks mate. Also a well established side effect of our treatments.
EDBAR said it goes with the cancer...he did not mention it goes with cancer treatment...ie ADT. So, read CAREFULLY my bloody statement before making such a bloody response ...don't just fire away!!
Here’s a link with information on that topic…ascopubs.org/doi/full/10.12...
You said it goes with prostate cancer, so I responded to that...not that it goes with ADT!! of course we all know that! Metformin helps diabetics "control" their disease..my wife has been type 2 for 20 years! It is well known re the association between diabetes and higher risk of CV problems... so , yes, metformin would help men on ADT who develop diabetes ....but don't think there are studies showing that it helps with all conditions within the meaning of metabolic syndrome... " These conditions include increased blood pressure, high blood sugar, excess body fat around the waist, and abnormal cholesterol or triglyceride levels "
I doubt that Snuffy made such a claim??
"of course we all know that" - some very loud opinionated persons here obviously do not know that and it needed to be pointed out.
Go easy on EdBar. I said it and my original statement was "PCa goes (in most cases) with metabolic disease, insulin resistance etc" and later "Anyone with PCa needs to watch insulin and sugar."
I am appalled that some recent posts on this subject have been egregiously misleading, haven't acknowledged the whole story and are propagating fairy tales about scientific method.
Metformin shouldn't replace diet and exercise for men on ADT. There is no evidence that it does any good in preventing metabolic syndrome.
It certainly controls insulin resistance. That's what its for.
Agreed! That's a good reason to take it.
Snuffy was always big on diet and exercise, he was a big proponent of adhering to a Mediterranean diet. In his book he has an exercise routine that men can follow. He and his daughter published a cookbook of healthy recipes for men with prostate cancer. Nowhere in the video or any others or any of his publications does he say skip diet and exercise.
Ed
As I said - diet and exercise can prevent metabolic syndrome in most cases. No need for drugs.
So, what are men with Pca who for any reason cannot do extreme diet and exercise or for whom it doesn't work well (that's many of us) supposed to do? Go away and die?
You take drugs for needed problems. One doesn't take aspirin to prevent a headache. This isn't so difficult.
So we don't take things like vaccines to PREVENT diseases? And many of us in fact do take aspirin to PREVENT cardiovascular problems.
C'mon, it aint so difficult.
Metformin isn't a vaccine and I've seen no evidence that it is a good idea to routinely prescribe metformin to prevent metabolic syndrome in men taking ADT. Can you understand why that is not SOC? This is like giving every man taking Erleada prednisone in the hope of preventing one rash in a hundred men. It would probably prevent the rash at the cost of needlessly giving unnecessary prednisone to 99 men.
Now you are getting ridiculous. This conversation is closed.
I take aspirin to prevent a stroke.
Metformin does more than what it is being challenged for doing. Telomeres--what happens when telomeres are weak? The new cell's structure deviates from the cell it replaces and we have a good idea where that leads.
Metformin: A Potential Candidate for Targeting Aging …
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Apr 01, 2021 · Metformin delays aging through telomeres. Recently, metformin demonstrated superior on maintaining telomere stability. Garcia-Martin et al indicated that metformin …
Author: Die Hu, Fangfang Xie, Yongwei Xiao, Chen Lu, Jianing Zhong, Defa Huang, Jie Chen, Jifu Wei, Yu Jiang...
Publish Year: 2021
Currumpaw
Interesting hypothesis. Reason to test to see if there is actually an anti-aging effect. Not a reason to take drugs with bad side effects.
Hey! Metformin has negligible side effects. What is behind this pile-on in the face of many decades of safe use?
Start touting supplements if you really want to see him 'pile-on'.
Hi Ed,
Thanks for posting Snuffy's video. It's interesting information. I suspect that it'll wind-up some folks, but we've come to expect that on HU. Hoping for the best but expecting the worst.
Take care,
Jeff
It's just old news. Nothing to see here.
He got ahead of the research here.
Thank you Ed, great post! There was some helpful info regarding curcumin.
I don’t get ‘wound up’ about it,, but it is unfortunate the number of guys who use metformin for their insulin resistance in place of diet and exercise.
If this isn’t you, no need to get ‘wound up’😀
How many guys do you know who replace diet and exercise with Metformin???
I get plenty of exercise. Gym 3 times a week, religiously. I can still do 6 pullups at age 72. Not so great with the diet. I don't do the food shopping or cooking. I do take metformin. Not only for a slightly troublesome A1c of 7.2 but also for its benefits in controlling prostate cancer.
Personally, several. Given the statistics on how many men with PCA are overweight and don’t exercise, there are obviously many. Metabolic syndrome is rampant among us.
The easier softer way is always attractive, especially if we think it will work. It’s just a matter of whether we take it. Why do you ask?
That’s interesting, I don’t know a single guy who uses Metformin and skips diet and exercise. In fact it seems a lot of guys have trouble getting their doctor to prescribe Metformin, which is a shame. When all three are used in combination it is very effective in combating metabolic syndrome.
Ed
You may not know one, but keep in mind guys who do aren’t likely to talk about it.
There shouldn’t be a stigma around statins, metformin, ED meds or anything else that helps us but there is. Men often are reluctant to admit they need help, and tend to do a lot more planning to exercise, talk about getting back to it, what they used to do etc than actually doing it. I know plenty of those.
I have a hunch that doctors are mostly ok with prescribing metformin to assist in treatment of diabetes, but reluctant to do so as a preventative. That is, in the absence of a high hemoglobin A1C, fasting glucose etc. I agree that especially for men on ADT this is a little crazy. Those of us on ADT are inherently challenged in that department as you well know.
I never had need for it but asked my PCP for some anyway some time ago. He talked me out of it, saying he didn’t like to treat what isn’t there.
I’m glad looking back I stayed away; I always like to see how I’m doing naturally first. Thanks to a strong case of familial hypercholesterolemia, this was not the case re statins. Happy to have those!
I was the opposite, after reading Snuffy’s book I approached my GP about it and he had no problem prescribing it, after all, I was a Stage 4, Gleason 9 PCa patient, what do I have to lose. Later when I became a patient of Snuffy’s he was pleased to see that I was ahead of the game. I have always bought into his approach to treating my aggressive disease aggressively by throwing the kitchen sink at it. His approach together with Gods grace I believe is why I’m still around. Time and time again his methods have later shown to be effective. Take Xtandi for instance, 8 years ago he was able to somehow prescribe it for me even though I was still castrate sensitive, years later it’s been shown be be more effective when used early rather than later when castrate resistance sets in. I guess we all take different approaches on our journey.
Ed
Happy for you, that’s a good story! It’s no wonder Snuffy still gets talked about with such reverence.
I took a very aggressive approach also-kitchen sink after RP even though 4+3, negative margins and undetectable PSA post op. Even with a positive lymph node and seminal vesicle invasion SOC as of 2019 was still ‘let him cruise on his RP and hope it lasts’. What BS that is most of the time.
Thankfully I followed the RP with a consult with a MO who advised the sink. So far so good, we’ll see if it lasts.
My PCP was a prick who shot down my request for metformin too. He also shot down my request for a lorazapam refill for occasional but horrible insomnia. When he left and a female doctor took his place she readily agreed to prescribe both. Maybe your doctor wasn't doing you any favors. Some doctors with frail egos refuse requests from their patients ... just because they 'know better' -- they're the doctors!
I support metformin and Red Foreman, from That 70’s Show.
One local oncologist I went to, said he didn’t know what metformin was! Needless to say, I never visited him again. Some of these guys have a beer narrow, shallow knowledge base.
Not sure why you think it is useful to the discussion to imagine my emotions (wrapped around the axle). Ad hominems like that only occur when people have nothing useful to contribute about the subject at hand. When one is ignorant on the subject, silence is usually a better response.
That makes 7, I knew you couldn’t resist. The over under is 10.
Well, you've proved you can count. Usually children are taught how to discuss things with others in kindergarten.
You’re right! That’s 8, it’s hard to keep up, and talk about Ad hominems, lol, that’s rich. Gonna go for 9?
You might win more hearts and minds (yes, I have set myself up) if you could be less distainful. EdBar has an opinion that many of us value. I take Metformin because I am pre-diabetic. Diet and exercise did not lower my A1c numbers from rising.
You might win more minds if you would stick to the topic and refrain from "helpful" suggestions about my comments. I never said that people with diabetes or metabolic syndrome shouldn't use metformin. Try to stay on topic.
But you have said people with PCa shouldn't take it.
I have said that there is no evidence of a survival benefit in men with PCa. In fact, the highest level evidence so far is that there is no survival benefit.
Don't be so didactic, Myrtle May!
With a name like Snuffleupagus I just realized that Dr. Myers must be Greek... OPA! Met-formin and Met-axa....and Ouzo.....Rakin.....Krasi.....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Sunday 05/29/2022 6:47 PM DST
hey Ed, i see you’re still active on this site so I assume and hope you are doing quite well. I was just wondering how long you have been castrate resistant for? I last read you were on xtandi for a while although you became resistant to adt, am I correct? Have you done any chemo or any other treatments? You are very lucky if just Xtandi and lupron has held your cancer at bay for more than a year! Thanks
I have been castrate resistant for about two years now. And yes, still doing well. For ADT I’m taking Xtandi, Lupron and Avodart - Snuffy Myers triple therapy. I also take Metformin and use estradiol patches for ADT side effects, also per Snuffy Myers. I’ve had two rounds of SBRT to spots on ribs that seem to be the cause of my PSA rising from undetectable status. All the other treatments I’ve had in the past are listed in my profile, I’ve been pretty aggressive in my treatment and it seems to have paid off.
And don’t forget the power of prayer, God truly works miracles.
Ed
Dr. Myers Alternatives
Metformin
Metformin
