A question about the immune system

[Javelin18]

I’ve been researching the immune system to see if my hypothesis about using T cells from a patient that had spontaneous remission could be used to train the immune sister of a patient with active disease.

I found a couple of good overviews in my research, along with more specific journal articles. Here are the overviews:

mcb.berkeley.edu/courses/mc...

thoughtco.com/t-cells-meani...

I understand that dendritic cells train T cells, and believe that can be done ex vivo to create a vaccine. However dendritic cells don’t remember past infection. They express foreign antigens to naive T cells which maintain the memory.

Since memory T cells have a limited lifespan, there must be a way for them to pass the information before they die, and maintain long term immunity. I’m thinking this could be used to pass memory of cancer antigens from the T cells in a donor in remission to a another patient with active disease, while avoiding host versus donor reactions.

There are a lot of very well informed people on this forum. I’m wondering if any of you understand how T cell memory is passed, or have an idea where I might look for b that information.

[tango65]

These links have some information:

nature.com/articles/nature2...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2...

[Javelin18 in reply to tango65]

Thanks for the link. From the abstract it looks like T memory cells are primed only during active infection, including dormant cells that are later activated. This fits well with declining immunity over time with many diseases.

Unfortunately, understanding this mechanism means my hypothesis won’t work. Probably why it’s never been done for any disease. Looks like I need to think about a new approach.

[Bjry in reply to Javelin18]

I liked your reasoning Javelin. A bit of relevant history from William Coley to more current developments in this: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Javelin18]

While digging further into this, I came across a process for genetic sequencing of T cells to see if they had memory of SARS COV2 infection. This might be a way to identify prostate cancer sequences innTumor Infiltrating Lymphocytes to develop PCa vaccines or splice into mRNA vaccines to create PCa spike proteins

immunoseq.com

[Spyder54]

I love that u r staying with this Javelin!!We are all in our own direction. I am convinced we will see evidence of cure here on this site, a year before the Oncology summits and 18 mos before the media catches up. I will now read your 2 hyperlinks to Healthy T Cell implants.

Keep at it.

Mike

[Javelin18]

Thanks Mike,

This is really well informed community. I think by learning as much as we can, and using that knowledge to make suggestions to the doctors, or have them explain their reasoning, we help them to make logical leaps that will lead to a cure more quickly.

[Stoneartist in reply to Javelin18]

I do so agree with this. The medical profession is reliant on the phase I/II/III clinical trials which take years to reach a robust conclusion. I consider this forum as a vast database of individual experiences - must be a gold mine for researchers - and we are each working on a trial of one. The added knowledge of our members gives us extraordinary opportunities to work more constructively with our individual onkologists.

[Javelin18 in reply to Stoneartist]

Yes, the information here is a collective meta intelligence. It makes me remember the early days of the internet, before the flood of social media opinions.

[cesces]

The experts pretty don't know how the immune system works.

It's developed with one add on after another over a billion years of battle.

Even today it's mostly guess work that then gets confirmed or not with clinical trials.

There are so many different T-cells alone. With substantial differences in function. And they keep discovering more.

[Javelin18 in reply to cesces]

I agree with your assessment. The immune system seems complex and not well understood. Of course I’m sure the medical community has a better understanding than I do. My hope is that by learning enough to ask good questions of the researchers, I might help them head in the most promising direction.

It does seem that there is a bit of guesswork to their process. It reminds of the Chesterton quite “we’re looking on the wrong side of the tapestry”

[cesces in reply to Javelin18]

Agreed

[Currumpaw]

Hey Javelin18--

Feed them!

Creatine in Health and Disease

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Jan 29, 2021 · The researchers concluded that creatine is an important metabolic regulator controlling antitumor T cell immunity and that creatine supplementation may improve T cell–based cancer immunotherapies . Collectively, these findings indicate that creatine supplementation may have anticancer properties.

Cited by: 13

Publish Year: 2021

Currumpaw

[Javelin18 in reply to Currumpaw]

Thanks, I’ll look into this

[Javelin18 in reply to Currumpaw]

Still trying catch up on the article. Nalakrats posted about creatine yesterday. I found the article that was mentioned there, in a UCLA news post about the research on mouse models.

My research had shown T cell exhaustion from competition for energy with the tumor. My creatinine is low, so going to start supplementing. I will read the article you cited before I meet with my MO this afternoon.

Thanks again

[Currumpaw in reply to Javelin18]

Javelin18,

You are welcome. I emailed The Vitamin Shoppe at the time I was looking into creatine. I got a phone # and had a conversation with someone in corporate. I wanted to know if the BodyTech 100% pure monohydrate as vegan. It is--at least the powder. Maybe the capsules aren't and the label would indicate that.

I didn't realize Nalakrats had posted anything about creatine recently. I came across the info just by curiosity if it would be a good addition to blended drink I make.

Currumpaw

[ExSubaru in reply to Javelin18]

Been browsing back. Assume by now you've caught up with negatives as well positives of Creatine. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/348...

[j-o-h-n]

Keytruda...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 11/17/2021 12:11 PM EST

[Javelin18 in reply to j-o-h-n]

Thanks John,

My opinion on checkpoint inhibitors b is that they haven’t shown a lot of success because there are not a lot of Tumor Infiltrating Lymphocytes (TIL). This allows the regulatory T cells to dominate the process.

Checkpoint inhibition decreases regulatory T cell action, but without TIL there is nothing to take advantage of the improved environment.