Low WBC Count Due to Radiation

[6357axbz]

Anyone else have very low wbc count (1.7) due to radiation and if so how long did it take to rebound after RT?

Thanks

[timotur]

Yes, my ALC count dropped from about 1150 to 250 after HDR-Brachy/IMRT radiation, then recovered to about 500 a few months later. It's probably still trending up, but haven't checked it since then. [ALC = WBC * %Lymph)

[6357axbz in reply to timotur]

Thanks

[cesces]

Cb4 T-cells never recover

[6357axbz in reply to cesces]

I think that’s an HIV related condition. What does that have to do with PCa?

[EdBar in reply to 6357axbz]

Low killer T cells are not uncommon in prostate cancer patients due to radiation and chemo.

Ed

[cesces in reply to 6357axbz]

Cb4 T-cells are found in lymph nodes.

Each time you hit a lymph node with radiation it kills the T-cells that are resident there at the time.

Cb4 T-cells never recover. They never grow back.

Other types of T-cells do grow back, but even those are not as effective as the ones that have been trained over your lifetime.

[RonnyBaby]

My immune system has TOTALLY recovered from the maximum radiation dose administered about 3 years ago.

I did 'supplement' myself with 'immunity boosters'. There is also zinc (don't overdoo anything to compensate - not a good idea) that is a factor. There are many that are

available from Amazon or other sources. Go for quality - don't skimp to save a buck - the 'junk' ain't worth it.

It should typically take a few months - with proper diet and common sense about lifestyle, the majority of 'patients' should expect to fully recover.

IF you look at published long term side effects (from RT) , a loss of immunity function is NOT listed - for good reason.

[6357axbz in reply to RonnyBaby]

👍 thank-you RB

[GeorgeGlass in reply to RonnyBaby]

What immunity boosters did or do you take?

[RonnyBaby in reply to GeorgeGlass]

There are numerous choices to make and frankly, some surprising things to consider.

Your GUT 'biome' is a starting point -you want to consume some pre-biotic and pro-biotics to allow for good digestion of the 'quality' foods that you do eat. Probiotics, when taken 'without prebiotics will tend to do a lot less than advertised.

I would recommend 'Intelligent Labs' Probiotics with Prebiotics - a combo / blend OR similar type of supplement - mine was on Amazon.

There are products called 'Deep Immune Tonics' - available through Naturopaths, SOME finer Health Food Stores and ONLINE - there's lots of choice, but cheaper is NOT better - typically in liquid form.

Chelated Zinc - 25 mg (max) is a good choice - but don't overdue zinc - can be a bad decision.

Your Vitamins - B (especially B12 by itself) and a Quality B 'complex' , 'C' - the good stuff - NOT the 'chewables with Sucralose' - even extended release is worth taking, + Vitamin D - which is fat soluble - HIGH quality in liquid form, in 'coconut oil' capsules - about 4,000 IU of D a day - or less if you get real sunshine. You could add vitamin K2 as well - some formulations combine the 2, but don't overdo the 'K2'.

Typically 'anti-inflammatory herbals 'support immune function' - turmeric (curcumin extract) is one of them - Boswellia, Ginger extracts / Garlic (real or extracted allicin),

Black Seed Oil / or Powder + IP-6 (there's some that have a few extras added to it) +

Andrographis - a traditional 'Chinese' herbal - and there's other 'types' of herbals with similar properties - in 'traditional' 'ancient' medicine.

ONE key factor when taking these 'immuno' support or boosters is to NOT overdo it. Dome of the herbals MIGHT suggest taking 4 or 6 a day - 4 me - that was NOT an option - I was very aware of digestive issues and you don't want to be burping up 'herbs' feeling like a COW - so you can 'micro-dose' and still get the 'entourage' benefits.

There's a BRAND name out there that I'd think you'd want to consider - Zyflamend - even consuming their 'joint' formulation would act as a booster - but reading the labels and ingredients of their offerings will point you in a direction about what is 'beneficial' and 'naturally' based.

After a period of time, your immune system should recover and you could DROP the deep tonic(s) and back off the amount of 'herbals' you are consuming - but a daily 'maintenance' dose will help you keep 'protected' in terms of fighting off colds and other 'illnesses' that poor immunity function threatens us with.

You SHOULD look at drug / herbal interactions with ANY medication(s) you are taking, because there could be some problems with some of them.

I suggest that others might offer you some different opinions / options - and I would encourage you to see what others would recommend.

[treedown in reply to GeorgeGlass]

Jicama and Burdock root are edible prebiotics.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to RonnyBaby]

what I read about a couple days ago said that any lymph nodes that get radiated, have their T4 cell memory destroyed permanently. That's probably why I get sick a lot more often since my radiation treatments five years ago.

[RonnyBaby in reply to GeorgeGlass]

I'll have to look into that comment - I was node positive and had radiation treatment to the pelvic bed and I'm told my BCR, which is contained in many 'local' / regional lymph nodes need systemic treatment.

I have read that lymph nodes are one of the few 'systems' in the body that are capable of 'replenishing' / regrowing themselves - so your statement suggests I need to dig deeper.

I'm very fortunate - I rarely get sick and my immune system seems to protect me from the common cold and infections etc ...

I have an auto-immune disorder - psoriasis and arthritis - but other than that I've been pretty healthy for years (other than the PCa of course).

The Immune system has the bones as a main source of the cells - think of why we are anemic post - radiation and it is because the bones are 'attacked' along with the rest of the body. The gut bacteria / flora also plays a roll.

Those 'components' take time to heal after invasive treatment(s).

Hopefully, with time, you'll make strides in getting closer to where you should be to ward off the 'sickness' and illness that you've experienced.

It took months / a year - for me to recover my strength and immunity post radiation / post ADT.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to RonnyBaby]

what is your wbc level on and off ADT?

[RonnyBaby in reply to GeorgeGlass]

Without looking it up - here's a quick recollection of the numbers --- a reduction of about 30% from the radiation then a slight 10% improvement while on ADT after the radiation effects wore off - then a 20% improvement post ADT - today I'm in the 'lower range of normal' according to my GP ...

[GeorgeGlass in reply to RonnyBaby]

did you do immunity level tests?

[RonnyBaby in reply to GeorgeGlass]

YES - a complete blood panel will tell you the status / counts of the various cell types.

The WHITE cell types are the ones that point to immune function.

I checked every three months to watch the results. Doing the tests more frequently are an option but recovery can be relatively slow - so be aware of your surroundings and try to protect yourself if you are prone to 'seasonal' illness(es).

I used some supplements to try to speed up the process - with limited results, but it was better than doing nothing.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to RonnyBaby]

If the supplements were limited in results, then what was the cause of your immune system recovering, mostly time?

[RonnyBaby in reply to GeorgeGlass]

TIME + eating properly + recovery time from treatment + supplements to support the immune system.

I posted about that (supplements) previously - not sure when / where, but there is a recovery' plan that some naturopaths would suggest - and that's what I did for about 6 - 8 months.

It involves / includes IP6, Deep Immune Tonic(s), quality vitamins (NOT a multi-vitamin) including sub-lingual B12, Quercetin and Curcumin (turmeric extract) as the basic building blocks.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to RonnyBaby]

I printed your previous response to see if there is anything I'm not already taking. I was doing great until Levaquin weakened me and added fatigue. I'm battling cancer, heart artery disease and now Levaquin damage so its a balancing act. Maybe I'll try increasing ginseng intake a little. I need more energy and caffeine doesn't really work because its a mitochondria damage issue.

[RonnyBaby in reply to GeorgeGlass]

Be careful about the type of ginseng - the 'regular' stuff is NOT advisable for any senior - I think the 'Korean' OK, but I'd need to re-check - I stopped ginseng a long time ago.

I think you MIGHT want to consider Ashwagandha - that is something that supports the fight vs. PCa and helps with fatigue, combats glutamine and offers a few other benefits. I've been taking that for months.

You'd need to cross reference it for 'interactions' .....