Rising psa

[Muffin2019]

Saw article on eggs affecting psa, cut back to 3 instead of 7 a week but it increased. It was 3.8, 4.1, 4.6 now 6.6, I think it is time for a second line of defense like casodex, the high price not an option plus like to start then when that fails go to the others that could go down in price by then. Should I be starting the second line now ? Also the creatine levels have increased to 1.4 so have to drink more water I would think, any suggestions. It has been warm here and have been spending more time outside.

[Magnus1964]

Casodex is one of the older "-lutamides". A good choice, it's milder than the newer drugs with less side effects.

You would still have zytiga, Xtandi and other newer drugs to fall back on.

[Muffin2019 in reply to Magnus1964]

Thank you, this was helpful

[Tall_Allen]

You should not be taking Casodex. You have metastases. You should be taking abiraterone (available now as a lower cost generic) with your Lupron. Several large clinical trials have now proven that the combination of those medicines may extend survival for a long time over Lupron alone. Casodex adds very little to survival.

[Muffin2019 in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thank you

[Tall_Allen]

On eggs - I think you can understand the fallacy behind your conclusion from the following:

1) What is the cheapest source of animal protein? answer - eggs and dairy

2) Who is most likely to consume the cheapest proteins? answer - lower income people

3) Who is least likely to have insurance, to get screened for PC? answer - lower income people

4) Who is most likely to get diagnosed at a later stage, not get treatment, and die of lethal prostate cancer? answer - lower income people

ascopubs.org/doi/abs/10.120...

Don't avoid eggs; avoid being poor.

[Muffin2019 in reply to Tall_Allen]

I never thought about that but during chemo they had suggested eggs as a protein source. Good point and I emailed the oncologist with my concerns with the psa and other problem, getting tired of wearing depends when going out for shopping.

[TFBUNDY in reply to Tall_Allen]

Great plan...

[Horse12888 in reply to Tall_Allen]

I thought eggs contained choline, which promotes Pca. No?

[Tall_Allen in reply to Horse12888]

Choline is an essential nutrient and is ubiquitous in the human diet. While PCa certainly feeds on choline, if you don't have enough choline, it will feed on something else, and you will suffer from a choline deficiency. There is no good evidence that cutting back on choline intake accomplishes anything.

[Horse12888 in reply to Tall_Allen]

OK, thanks very much.

[lincolnj8 in reply to Tall_Allen]

Had insurance, regular visits, never screened for prostate cancer - 15 years. But, life is much better with chocolate chip ice cream.

[timotur]

Eggs are paradoxically good and bad. The lutein in eggs helps prevent macular degeneration, but choline intake from eggs is associated with an increased risk of lethal prostate cancer. Between 2-4 eggs per week seem to be a sweet spot. There’s only about 7 grams of protein per egg, so they can be easily substituted for by other protein sources like plant protein.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/229...

hcplive.com/view/eating-egg...

[Muffin2019 in reply to timotur]

Interesting, stick to my 3 eggs a week. The mediterrian diet is healthy.

[leo2634]

Ask your Doctor to switch you to genetic Zytiga.

[Muffin2019 in reply to leo2634]

The cost is high, the generic is lower, am investigating that. Casodex is more budget friendly and a start with the lupron.

[Tall_Allen in reply to Muffin2019]

Casodex adds very little to survival, abiraterone add a lot.

[leo2634 in reply to Muffin2019]

The cost can be subsidised with grants . Go on Fundfinder and apply.

[Muffin2019 in reply to leo2634]

Thanks

[FinalBossMatt]

Regarding nutrition, I did ask two different Oncologists if the Choline in eggs and chicken can affect prostate cancer since that was was one of my big sources of daily food since they are AWESOME.

The result?

After they got done laughing, both of them said the same thing, "I wish it was that easy." They did explain that the cancer is going to feed on damn near anything, so neither saw a problem with eggs and chicken, stuff like that. That makes sense because I remember a guy in another support group saying he had a strange spike in his PSA and the doc figured out the cancer was eating the medicine to grow. Don't ask me what it was because I don't know, but it's to emphasize the point, the cancer will FEED ON ANYTHING.

Both of them said don't over analyze micronutrition and instead of every amino possible, just eat clean, figure out what works best for your body since just like cancer, nutrition isn't "one size fits all." What works for some people isn't going to work for others.

[Tall_Allen in reply to FinalBossMatt]

Good oncologists!

[dadzone43]

You demonstrate clearly the value of "an article." Good guidance, but don't "bet the farm." Good luck.

[NecessarilySo]

I eat yolk-free eggs two or three times per week, (Omelets with cheese). The choline is in the yolk. This is good for low blood cholesterol also...last check 160. Other times, oatmeal, pastries. Always with V8 juice for lycopenes.

"Choline is highly concentrated in prostate cancer cells, and blood concentrations of choline have been associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer (6, 7). Thus, it is possible that the previously reported relations between meat, milk, and eggs and advanced prostate cancer were attributable in part to the choline content of these foods"

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl....

[Muffin2019 in reply to NecessarilySo]

Do you get the egg whites in the dairy section, I will try what you do. I like the v8 also and canned fire roasted tomatoes that could be used in an omelet, do you use cheddar cheese ? Do you eat any meat ? Your cholesterol number is great.

[NecessarilySo in reply to Muffin2019]

Egg Beaters and similar egg white products are with eggs in grocery stores near me (SF Bay area). I like the Egg Beaters because they are more the color of real eggs, yellowish, but it does not make any difference in taste. The competitors are cheaper.

Yeah I like sharp cheddar.

[Muffin2019 in reply to NecessarilySo]

Thanks, stay safe.

[pilot52 in reply to Muffin2019]

crack the egg by tapping it on a flat surface...pull it apart and separate the yolk from the white....fresh egg whites..Blue Skies...

[Currumpaw]

Hey Muffun2019!

Short but also references studies:

The Truth on Eggs, Choline & Prostate Cancer – drgeo

drgeo.com/the-truth-with-eg...

Of course there will be those that dismiss this article. Dr. Greger has a couple videos. You'll have to make your own decision after weighing the response from those who say there is something there and those who say it is hogwash.

My best to you.

Currumpaw

[Hidden in reply to Currumpaw]

This doctor also gives a shout out to Acetyl L-Carnitine for cognitive health.

[EdBar]

I eat egg white omelets pretty much every day cooked in olive oil with some kind of fresh veggies and a sprinkle of Parmesan cheese. It’s delicious.Once in a while I eat whole eggs.

I’ve been doing this for years since my dx, does choline in egg yokes promote cancer growth? Maybe, maybe not, but if there’s a chance it does I’ll continue to play it safe. At the very least I’m avoiding the cholesterol in the yokes which isn’t heart healthy especially if your on ADT. Same goes for chicken skin which I love, I’ve been avoiding it now for a few years since dx, coincidentally that’s where most of the cholesterol in chicken is found, so not eating skin is also heart healthy.

And this could be purely coincidental and anecdotal but for years prior to my stage 4 dx I ate whole eggs almost every morning.

Ed

[Muffin2019 in reply to EdBar]

What you do with eggs does sound delicious, going to try it myself

[monte1111]

Eggs were on sale and I bought 3 dozen. I'm really sick of potato salad. Maybe egg salad sandwiches tonight. My neighbors had better be good.

[j-o-h-n]

At all costs, avoid eating the shells............

(For monte1111 too)....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Thursday 07/30/2020 7:22 PM DST