"Minimizing Morbidity and Maximizing Outcomes w/ ADT by Laurence Klotz, MD Aug 2018"

[SuppWife]

Here is more discussion of Intermittent ADT and Firmagon vs Lupron others might find interesting.

grandroundsinurology.com/mi...

I'll say on the front end it involves discussion of mouse studies which I know is controversial, but hopefully there is some meaningful data gleaned from mouse studies or they'd stop doing them, wouldn't they?

Anyway, I found this information very interesting.

Here is one nugget from the piece:

"While Dr. Klotz thought this analysis would disprove Morote’s conclusion, in actuality, the results of the analysis vindicated Morote’s observation that that lower nadir testosterone in the first year of ADT correlates with a low time to CRPC and improved cause-specific survival."

[Tall_Allen]

The studies showing that achieving lower levels of testosterone with ADT results in longer survival and delayed progression were clinical studies, not a mouse study.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[SuppWife in reply to Tall_Allen]

Yes, right. Thanks, TA. I didn't mean to be confusing with that disclaimer.

The reference to the pre-clinical mouse model was in the section about degarelix vs an LHRH agonist and CV events.

[marnieg46 in reply to Tall_Allen]

I know this tread is about T but although I can't quite recall the details but in relation to a quick PSA non detectable rate after commencing hormones wasn't there a study done in China that said those in this category had shorter survival time??

[Tall_Allen in reply to marnieg46]

The point was that a quick decline to a high nadir had shorter survival. When the nadir was low, there was longer survival.

[marnieg46 in reply to Tall_Allen]

Can you explain a bit more please...what's a high nadir as opposed to a low nadir?

[Tall_Allen in reply to marnieg46]

A high nadir would be a lowest PSA of, say, 20. A low nadir would be a lowest PSA of, say, <0.1

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

journals.lww.com/md-journal...

[Jscjac]

Thanks for sharing !

[SuppWife in reply to Jscjac]

😘

[cigafred]

Many thanks for this reference to a great, IMHO, video. Compact/full of info, I recommend to anyone on ADT.

[marnieg46]

Thank you for positing this link. I found the information very helpful.