ADT and PSADT

[Spaceman210]

Does ADT of a certain duration tend to shorten PSADT, or not necessarily?

Jeff

[Tall_Allen]

It should lengthen PSADT or reduce it.

[Spaceman210 in reply to Tall_Allen]

Lol

[tango65 in reply to Spaceman210]

To calculate PSADT it has to be a progressive increase of the PSA. ADT should decrease the PSA or stop its progression. I believe there is not PSADT if ADT is working and the PSA is decreasing or stable.

[billfenley2 in reply to Spaceman210]

Jeff, I can see how Allen's comment seems to cover opposite outcomes, and be a joke, but I think he means it to cover just one outcome. Let's say doubling time goes from 6 months to a year. That lengthens doubling time, and it also reduces the doubling. ADT should certainly not shorten doubling time, right?

[whatsinaname in reply to billfenley2]

Excellent reply.

[Spaceman210 in reply to billfenley2]

Sorry for lack of clarity. I was wondering about ADT causing selective emergence of more aggressive behavior that could result in shortening it.

[billfenley2 in reply to Spaceman210]

I'd think that nobody mentioning that in reply here suggests that that's rare.

[6357axbz]

What’s PSADT?

[Spaceman210 in reply to 6357axbz]

PSA Doubling Time

[pjoshea13]

Jeff,

In the very early stage of ADT, before PSA has reached its nadir, the PSADT is negative & meaningless. While PSA remains at its nadir, the PSADT is infinite & equally meaningless. It's when ADT starts to fail & the PSA begins to climb, that PSADT again becomes meaningful ... unless cells have stopped producing PSA.

-Patrick

[George71]

"The Change of PSA Doubling Time and Its Association With Disease Progression in Patients With Biochemically Relapsed Prostate Cancer Treated With Intermittent Androgen Deprivation"

The doubling time shortens from the doubling time prior to starting each cycle of intermittent ADT. But IADT seems to be better than continuous ADT. see link below:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Spaceman210 in reply to George71]

That's what I was looking for, thanks!

[George71 in reply to Spaceman210]

We have similar profiles -- I am looking ahead at what may come as the next step in treating rising PSA I had N1 (post surgery pathology 4 of 10 lymph nodes and rising PSA I am currently 3 years out with PSA is 0.5 -- only taking supplements and Avadart.

A couple of thoughts:

the Medical industry is now recognizing that there is a newly emerging stage of PCa the non metastatic CRPC caused by the newer more effective hormone blocking drugs Zytiga - Xtandi etc.

The article cited, showed several things -- one is that when the testosterone returned to pre treatment norms -- the PSA doubling time slows down as opposed to very low testosterone when doubling time is twice as fast. Also when it started to rise again was when the testosterone started to drop. This supports the belief that (1) testosterone is overall beneficial and (2) removing it leads to CRPC and speeds it up.

I was wondering if immediately after stopping an IADT cycle -- if going straight to high dose testosterone would not be better. The faster doubling time was right after ending ADT -- the first 6 to 9 months while recovering testosterone. In addition to that it would be a mini BAT -- and may shock the cancer into remission and not give it as much time in a low testosterone environment where it begins to mutate into CRPC

[Spaceman210 in reply to George71]

Sent PM