Low Testosterone [T] & PCa risk. - Advanced Prostate...

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Low Testosterone [T] & PCa risk.

pjoshea13 profile image
8 Replies

New study below [1] [2].

I have some old posts where I claim that men at PCa diagnosis have lower T (as a group) than controls, & that those with the lowest T have a poorer prognosis. I need to expand on that.

The generally used T cutoff for hypogonadism these days seems to be 350 ng/dL. Age-related decline, which begins in our early 30's, can take us close to that, but there is also a birth year-related decline.

The 1948 birth year cohort to which I belong has better age-T numbers than the 1958 cohort, but worse than the 1938 cohort. Hypogonadism is not uncommon & is being seen at a younger age.

Morgentaler, in his saturation model, says that the body has enough T to bind to every androgen receptor [AR] that wants it, when T > 250 ng/dL, or so.

Men who are below that number, are actually in a form of ADT. So we have a paradox. Men below 350 ng/dL are at risk for more aggressive disease, while the subset below 250 ng/dL will have delayed detection - showing up as lower risk.

In the new study:

"... men in the group with the lowest levels of testosterone were significantly less likely to develop prostate cancer compared to all other men."

"Yet interestingly, when men in this group do get prostate cancer, they are 65% more likely to develop an aggressive form of the disease compared to all other men."

"For the men in the remaining nine groups, testosterone was not associated with prostate cancer risk."

"We analysed individual participant data from 20 prospective studies, with up to 6,933 prostate cancer cases and 12,088 controls in the Endogenous Hormones, Nutritional Biomarkers and Prostate Cancer Collaborative Group."

"Men in the lowest study-specific tenth of free testosterone had a lower risk of prostate cancer (OR=0.79 ...) compared with men in the 2nd-10th tenths."

There was "a decreased risk of low-grade prostate cancer (OR=0.76 ...) and an increased risk of high-grade disease (OR=1.65 ...) in men with very low levels of free testosterone."

I like that the study used deciles, rather than a smaller number of divisions, where the risks would have been diluted & perhaps not apparent.

I also like that they used free-T, which is the number that counts. As we age, T drops by 1-2% each year, but SHBG increases. Free-T is total T minus T bound to SHBG (or albumin). The age effect on free-T is much worse than the decline in total T would suggest.

Headlines in the UK Times: "Low testosterone reduces prostate cancer risk."

... which I'd say sends the wrong message, since the protection is for low-grade disease only: 24% less low-grade, but 65% more high-grade PCa.

Why would there be less low-grade disease? As T declines below 250 ng/dL, PSA declines too. Lower PSA = fewer biopsies = less inconsequential disease detected. It's a detection issue. We don't detect the lesser grade, & by the time PSA prompts a biopsy, the disease is more advanced.

With low T, basic arithmetic can be a challenge. How would men with low T respond to an offer of TRT (T supplementation) after being told that PCa risk would increase by x%, but aggressive PCa would decline by y%.

But perhaps there would be less aggressive disease if men who were heading to a dangerous free-T level could be identified early & treated?

-Patrick

[1] cancerresearchuk.org/about-...

[2] abstracts.ncri.org.uk/abstr...

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pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13

Trust the British Dail Mail to get it wrong:

"How low testosterone levels can cut prostate cancer risk"

"The discovery could lead to new methods of treatment by reducing the hormone."

I wonder how many of their readers would sign up for that? LOL

dailymail.co.uk/health/arti...

-Patrick

leswell profile image
leswell

Utterly mind-boggling. Fascinating though. I wonder what my beloved victim from the 1938 cohort will make of this in the morning. High T, low T, DHT, Free T, SHBG. Sure am happy with you about all the deciles though. If only someone in a younger cohort would reply to this one.

P.S. I have a great old-fashioned photo of the wedding in Tinmouth. Maybe I’ll limit myself to a link to the Juilliard graduate groom—this time singing not Ives but Britten. I like it.

youtu.be/WlnJ56fsUQk

Happy Thanksgiving to one of the world’s best researchers. Mrs. S

Charlean profile image
Charlean

Very interesting Patrick. I know Harley had his testosterone checked and it was always low and of course his cancer was very agressive. I always thought it strange but there is clearly so much more to all of it than we understand. Always good to learn more! Happy Thanksgiving.

Charlean

I was tagged as having hypogonadism at age 65. My PSA was OK and I passed the DRE so my doctor went ahead and prescribed me a T supplement cream from a compounding house (a lot cheaper than pharma manufactured stuff). I remember his caution: "if you are prone to developing prostate cancer this would be like throwing gasoline on the fire". I used it for a month and a half. I didn't see all that much benefit and in light of that warning I discontinued use of this cream. A year later I was diagnosed with gleason 8 prostate cancer. I wonder what would have happened if I had continued that T supplementation. Did I dodge at least a little bit of the PC bullet? Tests indicate that I am not metastatic at this time anyway.

leswell profile image
leswell

Thank you everyone. It’s the up is down and down is up that is maddening. And it’s not just BC and PCa but endometriosis,too, that are endocrine related. We are listening to you Patrick and Nalakrats. You and others working so doggedly will find answers for the generations to come.

Who was ever checked prior to PCa diagnosis for hypothyroidism? This is a study I don’t think can be done retrospectively. Can it?

Since my husband was diagnosed at age 77 with aggressive PCa, my guess would be that he had a low T and was one of the 25% to whom you referred. Les was asymptomatic until the shock of a blocked colon. That it is not blocked today is because our urologist immediately gave him the correct diagnosis and administered shots of Firmagon. Then the oncologist suggested early chemo and ADT to which we agreed which is why he is alive. This week we will be together at home with no appointments scheduled other than one at Costco for hearing aids. Life is good, and we pray it will be for you this Thanksgiving. We love you.

Jan and Les

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13

Nala,

"hypothyroidism?"

"We observed that men with clinical or subclinical hypothyroid status as defined based on recent endocrinological guidelines [6] were at decreased risk of prostate cancer compared to men with normal thyroid function. Similarly, we observed that men with the highest concentrations of TSH (indicating a hypothyroid state) were at lower risk of prostate cancer. These findings are consistent with previous laboratory and epidemiologic data suggesting that thyroid hormones influence prostate cancer risk [3], [4], [7]–[10]. A well-characterized biological mechanism through which this may occur involves T4 and T3 binding to the plasma membrane receptor integrin αvβ3, which activates various pro-carcinogenic pathways, including PI-3K and MAPK/ERK1/2, and increases cell proliferation and angiogenesis [2]. Importantly, integrin αvβ3has been implicated in prostate cancer metastasis [14]."

journals.plos.org/plosone/a...

-Patrick

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13

Good thinking - but no luck.

I think that an iodine deficiency would be bad for both, the thyroid & the prostate.

In fact, men with PCa have an increased risk for thyroid cancer, & vice versa.

However, it is claimed that the phenomenon is caused by over-screening. Are men who test PSA inclined to check the thyroid at the same time? I wouldn't think so.

But both cancers are over-detected.

-Patrick

ctarleton profile image
ctarleton

When I was first diagnosed at age 65 with many mets to bones and lymph nodes and a PSA over 5,000, my Testosterone was measured at 908 just before starting ADT. Have no idea if that has any connection to this discussion, one way or the other. My subsequent PSA nadir, though, was 1.0 (not the ultra-sensitive test).

Charles

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