Holy Cow Nalakrats..this could be a really important study. They state that you need concurrent androgen suppression and estrogen suppression. While ADT can kill androgen dependent PCa cells it does not effect estrogen dependent PCa cells, and the estrogen dependent PCa cells lead to the development of CRPC. So, it looks to me that anyone on ADT should be taking three Arimidex 1mg tabs per week and you may prevent CRPC.
Gus
Now that makes interesting reading...
Dr Erik Castle previously looked at using Casodex with Raloxifene. Raloxifen is a "SERM" a selective estrogen something, reporting interesting results in the lab. But he has been awfully quiet lately.
The trial reported below was (only) phase 1 - tolerability
I believe it was Neal-Snyder who posted a vid recently of Snuffy Myers, where he said that LDL cholesterol also feeds the PCa. I was dumbstruck. And, one other thing. I'm guessing my Uro shouldn't have given me a shot of Progesterone for my hot flashes, heh?
Interesting that I have been on high dose estradiol for more than half the almost 11 years I have survived with Gleason 10 , stage 4 prostate cancer with a bpsa of 148 and I am still alive. I think in the past perhaps when these studies were done many men were on some form of estrogen therapy. I do believe estrogen can have a withdrawl effect and can begin to feed the cancer as I think it did with me
Dan, how high is high and have you been on patches? Has your protocol intermittent or continuous?
jal
Jal, I have been on continual therapy since June 2006, zoldex, casodex, estrogen patch , nilandron , high dose ketoconazole zytiga/, xtandi and now docetaxol chemo. I was on climera patches .1mg per day 6 out of 7 days and returned to that therapy 5 times adding it to a therapy that failed and getting a response. In the pas Estrogens were a go to drug in prostate cancer. Though I think in the end of it, I may have got a withdrawl response after using it for 2 years with xtandi after xtandi failed.I used climera because mylan patcheds were to big and did not stick, climera is made by 3m whom know a bit about making things stick. Dr Myers always used vivvelle dot patches
Have you read Ed Friedman's book and papers? He's been blaming PC on estradiol for years.
My oncologist wrote (after I asked him about the AR/ER axis) "...we do offer antiestrogens during ADT, but more so to curb gynecomastia risk.
Antiestrogens also have risks themselves from arthralgias, thrombosis, stroke,
heart attack etc so this has to be weighed with this theoretic benefit."
While thinking about your intention about avoiding phytoestrogens in your diet, I encountered the following dilemma:
I agree, soy is only fit to feed to hogs. However, what about our diets in general? I assume that you are probably on a Mediterranean--Vegetarian type of diet and try to avoid red meat, including the "white" one, pork. You probably want to limit your carbs because they drive up insulin and insulin, well you get the picture. This leaves you for your source of protein, chicken or fish. Fine so far, but because you want to avoid all phytoestrogens, or most, you probably want to stay away from beans and lentils, good sources of fiber and protein. Also nuts and seeds are sources of phytoestrogens (I have heard them referred to as "mini uteruses"!) as are oats, barley, yams, pomegranates, coffee, ad nauseam. In short, in any sane diet, there is no avoiding phytoestrogens, UNLESS, one wants to go on the so-called "Paleolithic Diet" which is fraught with its own serious concerns.
Nal,
you take your supplements once a day in the morning....I have been taking mine twice a day...morning and evening except for a few like boron, selenium and VIT D
Gus
Gus, when do you take the boron and vit. D3? Is the standard boron from life extension useful for us or is the fructo-boron different, and preferred? I've currently been taking 2,000mg vit d3 at breakfast and dinner. Do you take BIRM? If so, what time of the day?
thanks,
George
PCRI has its mid-year meeting on Saturday, March 25th. Since they are taking questions, I have submitted a question regarding this AR-ER issue. I'm sure they will address the question. I'm not attending, but I will try to find out how the question was answered.
Obviously, your current regimen of supplements and medication has been successful for you. Of course, you should remain on it. My conclusion about Pca is that (1) the prostate is a very cranky organ; (2) According to the research, it doesn't like meat (especially red); it doesn't like milk products; it doesn't like fat, especially animal but vegetable oils, as well (because of their volatility); it doesn't like sugar, and I have even read, it doesn't care for too much protein, either; (2) It's very idiosyncratic--one reason for the poor response to medication. That would probably hold true for diets, as well.
My oncologists are at one of the premier practices on the West Coast and, as far as I know, they are all vegetarians. The only known in vivo study that used live people and not rats or test tubes to achieve PSA reduction was done by Dean Ornish and this was on a vegetarian, low fat diet. The only people I know (and have heard about) who have managed to drive down their PSAs through diet practice CR--which I would find almost impossible to do.
excellent post - very interesting
BAT: Bipolar Androgen Therapy: A Paradoxical Approach for the Treatment of CRPC.
Is it necessary to continue Lupron or any ADT while on Zytiga?
Your thoughts on getting off ADT while staying on AR inhibitor?
Affordable ADT...Transdermal estrogen questions
